Homers Unite.... Actually, Question about DA Baptist.

[Diesel]

Would Zion Williamson be better for this team than JC?

Oddly after considering it, I believe JC is better for us.  BUT  Zion scores 27ppg on 61% shooting.   However, I like JC's outside shooting and I think it opens lanes for Trae... indirectly. 

However, wouldn't we be better off in an existence where Trae didn't have to drive?

But... Trae hits 61% of his shots in the paint....  That and his left corner Three are his true skills. 

But... How many more Assists would Trae get with a Bull like Zion in the middle??

Isn't JC a Bull too?

But JC only scores about 15 ppg.. that's 12 ppg less than Zion. 

But Zion's usage rate.....

 

This is my mind going back and fourth..

What do you think Hawksquawk?

[Jdawgflow]

Zion without question.

No way NO would trade him though.

[RedDawg#8]

3 minutes ago, Jdawgflow said:

Zion without question.

No way NO would trade him though.

Zion is going to force a trade out of there before its all said and done. They are not doing enough to build around him and compete in the West. Their ceiling is in the 9 to 11 range. That's not going to cut it to keep him happy.

Not saying we will land him, but he is not retiring with the Pels.

[Diesel]

2 minutes ago, Jdawgflow said:

Zion without question.

No way NO would trade him though.

I'm starting to feel strongly that JC is better for us.  It comes down to this...

Trae is the float G.O.A.T.

He can be that with Zion on the team.  Zion would draw a big into the lane and would stop Trae's float game.  Like I said before, Trae hits 61% of his shots that he makes in the paint.  The deadliness of the float game is what makes his outside kick more dangerous.  We add Zion and Trae goes from being the show to being a guy looking to find Zion on an entrance pass.   Also.. because he's somewhat undersized, I don't think Zion would be as effective on the PNR as JC.

JC gets a lot of Shift from us because he doesn't score 20+ per game.  However, I think he's capable. 

 

[JayBirdHawk]

With Zion you'd need a big to stretch the floor in lieu of Capela.

[Jdawgflow]

2 minutes ago, RedDawg#8 said:

Zion is going to force a trade out of there before its all said and done. They are not doing enough to build around him and compete in the West. Their ceiling is in the 9 to 11 range. That's not going to cut it to keep him happy.

Not saying we will land him, but he is not retiring with the Pels.

I don’t think he will be traded until his second contract.  Could be wrong.  His knee also may explode.

[Diesel]

1 minute ago, RedDawg#8 said:

Zion is going to force a trade out of there before its all said and done. They are not doing enough to build around him and compete in the West. Their ceiling is in the 9 to 11 range. That's not going to cut it to keep him happy.

Not saying we will land him, but he is not retiring with the Pels.

This....

I figure no playoffs this year... he's going to want out. 

Considering... Jrue just won a ring.   Lonzo is gone.   They got shit to show for the lost of Lonzo.   

They drafted Freaking Trey Murphy....

They could have had Jalen.  They could have had Tre' Mann. 

They picked up Valenciunas and then signed Hernangomez as a FA...  They didn't address PG.    Devonte' Graham just got promoted to starting PG. 

These dudes don't care about winning.  

[RedDawg#8]

Just now, Diesel said:

This....

I figure no playoffs this year... he's going to want out. 

Considering... Jrue just won a ring.   Lonzo is gone.   They got shit to show for the lost of Lonzo.   

They drafted Freaking Trey Murphy....

They could have had Jalen.  They could have had Tre' Mann. 

They picked up Valenciunas and then signed Hernangomez as a FA...  They didn't address PG.    Devonte' Graham just got promoted to starting PG. 

These dudes don't care about winning.  

They care they just don't know how to do it lol

They are lost as it relates to building a balanced/complete roster.

The MOMENT Zion fell in to their laps, they should have started reshaping that team to maximize his strengths and complement his weaknesses.

They are just cycling through warm bodies right now.

[Gray Mule]

Diesel, I agree.  What we have is better than what we could get.  I've watched Trae and John.  They appear to be friends.  You don't separate friends unless you have a very good reason - - and we don't.

[RandomFan]

Zion over JC 100% of the time. Anything else is a serious case of blind homerism.

[sillent]

I really do like Zion but good question is he really that much of an upgrade over JC.

He may have more star power. He's definitely going to cost more. We could assume their would be chemistry with him and Trae but assumptions aren't results. We definitely can't keep too many of our other players if we have Zion.

More importantly will his body hold up in the long run? We know JC is durable. 

Again I like Zion but at this point I would only make moves out of necessity. I'd evaluate how things are going forward which at this point are very good. It's a big gamble and may not be wise to taint what we have for only hopes of what could be.

If people thought we surprised last year they are going to see just how dangerous we are (hopefully at full strength) this yr.

Can we atleast wait till January before we consider moving what we haven't even seen fully on court yet?

[QuantumHawkz]

No, give me JC with the 3 pt shot!

 

[niremetal]

Zero question Zion is the better player. But I still say he needs to lose about 25 pounds to take pressure of his knees. Otherwise, I'm going to keep operating under the assumption that he's going to wear out by the midpoint of his second NBA contract. You can count on one hand the number of guys with his physique who enjoyed long careers where they maintained even an above-average-starter level of play. And the only one of those who relied on his athleticism as much as Zion does was Sir Charles--and even he was noticeably skinnier than Zion in his early (Philly) years, which helped limit the toll on his joints.

So Zion, but on condition that he accepts the Hamburglar as his roommate.

[Diesel]

19 hours ago, RandomFan said:

Zion over JC 100% of the time. Anything else is a serious case of blind homerism.

Better three point shooter. -- JC

Better defender -- JC

Better Rebounder ---- Wash but leans JC. 

Zion is a one trick pony.  He's good at that one trick. But he brings so much Usage that he would suck the life from the rest of the team... and yes, there are some combinations that would be to his benefit like... Gallo at the 5, Zion at the 4... but Zion's game will limit Trae's game in a way. 

 Somebody said give me JC's 3 pt shooting.. I'll add and defense.    JC draws the hard defensive assignment.   I've yet to see Zion play defense. 

 

[Diesel]

6 hours ago, niremetal said:

Zero question Zion is the better player. But I still say he needs to lose about 25 pounds to take pressure of his knees. Otherwise, I'm going to keep operating under the assumption that he's going to wear out by the midpoint of his second NBA contract. You can count on one hand the number of guys with his physique who enjoyed long careers where they maintained even an above-average-starter level of play. And the only one of those who relied on his athleticism as much as Zion does was Sir Charles--and even he was noticeably skinnier than Zion in his early (Philly) years, which helped limit the toll on his joints.

So Zion, but on condition that he accepts the Hamburglar as his roommate.

It's a concern, but he's no Oliver Miller or Robert Traylor.  I think he will thin out.. but guys like Barkley, Larry Johnson, Oakley, and even Shawn Kemp tells me that he'll be alright. 

[kg01]

It's not a foregone conclusion that Zion would be better for us than Jollins.

Emphasis on the underlined portion.

Is Zion a higher-ceiling player, clearly yes.  But I think folks are ignoring his limitations.  He is a player that has to be built around just as Trae is.

You can just plug him in and your overall "talent" level increases but it doesn't necessarily mean you'll be a better team.

And can we please stop ignoring that players' #1 ability is availability.  I've been saying since he was at Duke, his body type is not conducive to having a long career at the same level of explosiveness.

When you project him, it's more than fair to consider what he'd look like if he's no longer able to jet past or jump over guys.

[thecampster]

8 minutes ago, kg01 said:

It's not a foregone conclusion that Zion would be better for us than Jollins.

Emphasis on the underlined portion.

Is Zion a higher-ceiling player, clearly yes.  But I think folks are ignoring his limitations.  He is a player that has to be built around just as Trae is.

You can just plug him in and your overall "talent" level increases but it doesn't necessarily mean you'll be a better team.

And can we please stop ignoring that players' #1 ability is availability.  I've been saying since he was at Duke, his body type is not conducive to having a long career at the same level of explosiveness.

When you project him, it's more than fair to consider what he'd look like if he's no longer able to jet past or jump over guys.

 

A typical NBA starter is on the floor for 60 of his teams' possessions. That's 120 trips up and down the floor. That's a lot of reps on his knees at his size.

[kg01]

18 minutes ago, thecampster said:

 

A typical NBA starter is on the floor for 60 of his teams' possessions. That's 120 trips up and down the floor. That's a lot of reps on his knees at his size.

All of us want to see him, and all these guys, have long and healthy careers.  But imagine a 300lb fat guy crashing down on the hardwood over and over like that.

That's what his ligaments are feeling.

I remember hearing someone (can't recall who) explaining why hockey players can easily play into their 40's.  It's because they're usually connected to the ground the whole time - certainly more so than basketball players are.  So their joints actually take less of a beating despite that being more of a contact sport.

[Diesel]

47 minutes ago, kg01 said:

It's not a foregone conclusion that Zion would be better for us than Jollins.

Emphasis on the underlined portion.

Is Zion a higher-ceiling player, clearly yes.  But I think folks are ignoring his limitations.  He is a player that has to be built around just as Trae is.

You can just plug him in and your overall "talent" level increases but it doesn't necessarily mean you'll be a better team.

And can we please stop ignoring that players' #1 ability is availability.  I've been saying since he was at Duke, his body type is not conducive to having a long career at the same level of explosiveness.

When you project him, it's more than fair to consider what he'd look like if he's no longer able to jet past or jump over guys.

What do we mean Higher Ceiling?

JC shoots damn near 40% from 3.   Clearly.   He's a stretch 4.    JC also rebounds slightly better and blocks more shots.   Zion scores more and assists more.  However, the offense runs through him.   These two players are different which is why JC is better for us. 

[Diesel]

I think the biggest limitation for Zion is that he's only about 6'6". 

Embiid would have dominated Zion.   I hate to think what a physical game would look like with Zion in it.