Premium Member Diesel Posted August 27, 2021 Premium Member Report Share Posted August 27, 2021 Where do you put JC in a redraft?? # Team Player H W P School C 1 *Philadelphia Markelle Fultz 6-4 190 PG Washington Fr. 2 LA Lakers Lonzo Ball 6-6 190 PG UCLA Fr. 3 *Boston Jayson Tatum 6-8 205 SF Duke Fr. 4 Phoenix Josh Jackson 6-8 205 SG/SF Kansas Fr. 5 Sacramento De'Aaron Fox 6-3 170 PG Kentucky Fr. 6 Orlando Jonathan Isaac 6-10 210 SF/PF Florida St. Fr. 7 Chicago Lauri Markkanen 7-0 230 PF Arizona Fr. 8 New York Frank Ntilikina 6-5 190 PG France Intl. 9 Dallas Dennis Smith 6-2 195 PG NC State Fr. 10 *Portland Zach Collins 6-11 230 C Gonzaga Fr. 11 Charlotte Malik Monk 6-3 200 SG Kentucky Fr. 12 Detroit Luke Kennard 6-6 195 SG Duke So. 13 *Utah Donovan Mitchell 6-2 210 SG Louisville So. 14 Miami Bam Adebayo 6-10 245 PF/C Kentucky Fr. 15 Sacramento Justin Jackson 6-8 200 SF North Carolina Jr. 16 *Minnesota Justin Patton 6-11 230 C Creighton Fr. 17 Milwaukee DJ Wilson 6-10 235 PF Michigan Jr. 18 Indiana TJ Leaf 6-10 225 PF UCLA Fr. 19 Atlanta John Collins 6-9 225 PF/C Wake Forest So. 20 *Sacramento Harry Giles 6-10 230 PF/C Duke Fr. 21 Oklahoma Cty Terrance Ferguson 6-7 185 SG USA Intl. 22 *Brooklyn Jarrett Allen 6-10 235 C Texas Fr. 23 *Toronto OG Anunoby 6-7 235 SF/PF Indiana So. 24 *Denver Tyler Lydon 6-9 215 PF Syracuse So. 25 *Philadelphia Anzejs Pasecniks 7-1 220 C Latvia Intl. 26 *Portland Caleb Swanigan 6-9 250 PF/C Purdue So. 27 *LA Lakers Kyle Kuzma 6-9 225 PF Utah Jr. 28 *Utah Tony Bradley 6-10 250 C North Carolina Fr. 29 San Antonio Derrick White 6-4 190 PG/SG Colorado Sr. 30 *LA Lakers Josh Hart 6-5 210 SG Villanova Sr. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Diesel Posted August 27, 2021 Author Premium Member Report Share Posted August 27, 2021 I'm going: 1. Tatum 2. Fox 3. JC 4. Ball 5. Smith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Popular Post JayBirdHawk Posted August 27, 2021 Premium Member Popular Post Report Share Posted August 27, 2021 18 minutes ago, Diesel said: I'm going: 1. Tatum 2. Fox 3. JC 4. Ball 5. Smith Dennis Smith??? He's just about out of the league. JC would be in the top 5: Tatum, Donovan Mitchell, JC, Fox, Adebayo, Ball, OG 4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
REHawksFan Posted August 27, 2021 Report Share Posted August 27, 2021 6 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said: Dennis Smith??? He's just about out of the league. JC would be in the top 5: Tatum, Donovan Mitchell, JC, Fox, Adebayo, Ball, OG I think JC would have a strong case after Tatum and Bam go 1, 2. Either JC or Mitchell would be next, imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Popular Post AHF Posted August 27, 2021 Moderators Popular Post Report Share Posted August 27, 2021 Actual draft is always a factor with who needs what. So this is my "abstract" ranking through JC: Tatum Mitchell Bam Fox JC Here is my 20/20 hindsight draft through JC's selection based on actual teams: #1 BOS - Tatum (Philly refuses to trade this time because they want a PG and aren't impatient idiots; Boston still wants Tatum) #2 LAL - Mitchell (already have Randle, Ingram and Russell so Bam also works but figure LA management from this era wants the bigger splash) #3 PHI - Fox (wanted a PG and get him this time) #4 PHO - Bam (other than Booker, this is a mediocre to terrible roster so selection is wide open but Bam and Booker seem a good pairing) #5 SAC - JC (Cousins and Hield are your young studs here so JC fits no matter whether they keep Cousins this time or deal him again) 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin capstone21 Posted August 27, 2021 Admin Report Share Posted August 27, 2021 Smith???? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin capstone21 Posted August 27, 2021 Admin Report Share Posted August 27, 2021 30 minutes ago, AHF said: Actual draft is always a factor with who needs what. So this is my "abstract" ranking through JC: Tatum Mitchell Bam Fox JC This would be my rankings … you might have a case of Mitchell over Tatum but I would have him fifth after those four guys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gray Mule Posted August 27, 2021 Report Share Posted August 27, 2021 We all agree. JC would go much higher. Speculation: At the end of this upcoming season, where do you suppose the two Atlanta picks will end up on a draft re-do? Sharife Cooper went low in the 2nd round and Jalen Johnson went #20 in the 1st. Will they live up to the hopes of us Squawk posters? Will they both be that good? Or, was their position correct? Check back in one year and see! 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Diesel Posted August 27, 2021 Author Premium Member Report Share Posted August 27, 2021 2 hours ago, JayBirdHawk said: Dennis Smith??? He's just about out of the league. JC would be in the top 5: Tatum, Donovan Mitchell, JC, Fox, Adebayo, Ball, OG Shucks.. I missed Mitchell. Tatum, Mitchell, Fox, JC, and Ball are my 5. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandomFan Posted August 27, 2021 Report Share Posted August 27, 2021 First, here is their redraft top 10 from the article: https://soaringdownsouth.com/2021/08/27/atlanta-hawks-redrafting-2017-john-collins/ Mitchell Tatum Bam Adebayo JC De'Aaron Fox Jarrett Allen Dillon Brooks Lonzo Markkanen Fultz Mine: Bam Tatum Mitchell Fox JC OG Anunoby Lonzo Jarrett Allen Dillon Brooks Markkanen Bam and Tatum are easily the two best players, with Mitchell by himself in the next tier below. I could see the argument for Tatum at #1 since the NBA is a wing driven league in this era, but Bam is such a valuable rare unicorn type of player for a big with that type of mobility, IQ, defensive skill, and offensive initiation ability. Mitchell is very good, but he's not better than those two. And while Fox gets unfairly discounted as an empty stats guy on a bad team (like Trae used to be), he isn't quite as good as Mitchell. It's a big drop-off to the next tier of JC and Anunoby and OG might be better than JC, but I guess I'll go with the homer pick between the two. And then it's a very very big drop to the rest. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ATLHawks3 Posted August 27, 2021 Report Share Posted August 27, 2021 1. Tatum 2. Mitchell 3. Adebayo 4. Fox 5. Collins 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators AHF Posted August 27, 2021 Moderators Report Share Posted August 27, 2021 3 hours ago, Diesel said: Shucks.. I missed Mitchell. Tatum, Mitchell, Fox, JC, and Ball are my 5. Lonzo Ball over Bam Adebayo is crazy, IMO. Just on assists last year it was Bam 5.4 versus 5.7 for Lonzo. And that is before you get to the rest of their games. Lonzo career 9.2 total Win Shares. Bam 8.8 Win Shares last year alone and 28.3 total. Lonzo isn't a top 15 point guard while Bam is a top 5 center. Just not close. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thecampster Posted August 27, 2021 Report Share Posted August 27, 2021 9 minutes ago, AHF said: Lonzo Ball over Bam Adebayo is crazy, IMO. Just on assists last year it was Bam 5.4 versus 5.7 for Lonzo. And that is before you get to the rest of their games. Lonzo career 9.2 total Win Shares. Bam 8.8 Win Shares last year alone and 28.3 total. Lonzo isn't a top 15 point guard while Bam is a top 5 center. Just not close. Bam > Ball but out of curiousity. Who are the 4 centers you have ahead of Bam? (I'm counting like 8). I guess we need to define it as well since Bam is technically a F/C and that opens the list some. But yah, Ball over Bam is really hard to swallow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marco102 Posted August 27, 2021 Report Share Posted August 27, 2021 I have another question. Is Kevin Huerter a top 10 pick in a 2018 redraft? I think he is. 1. Luka 2. Trae 3. Ayton 4. Michael Porter Jr. 5. SGA 6. Collin Sexton 7. Jaren Jackson Jr. 8. Mikal Bridges 9. Kevin Huerter 10. - Pick em 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandomFan Posted August 27, 2021 Report Share Posted August 27, 2021 (edited) 54 minutes ago, thecampster said: Bam > Ball but out of curiousity. Who are the 4 centers you have ahead of Bam? (I'm counting like 8). I guess we need to define it as well since Bam is technically a F/C and that opens the list some. But yah, Ball over Bam is really hard to swallow. There's only two, for now, in Embiid and Jokic. That's it, and just barely at that. Given Bam is still only 24 I wouldn't be surprised if he tops the list within 2 years considering Embiid's injury issues and Jokic's defensive shortcomings. Edited August 27, 2021 by RandomFan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Diesel Posted August 27, 2021 Author Premium Member Report Share Posted August 27, 2021 3 hours ago, RandomFan said: First, here is their redraft top 10 from the article: https://soaringdownsouth.com/2021/08/27/atlanta-hawks-redrafting-2017-john-collins/ Mitchell Tatum Bam Adebayo JC De'Aaron Fox Jarrett Allen Dillon Brooks Lonzo Markkanen Fultz Mine: Bam Tatum Mitchell Fox JC OG Anunoby Lonzo Jarrett Allen Dillon Brooks Markkanen Bam and Tatum are easily the two best players, with Mitchell by himself in the next tier below. I could see the argument for Tatum at #1 since the NBA is a wing driven league in this era, but Bam is such a valuable rare unicorn type of player for a big with that type of mobility, IQ, defensive skill, and offensive initiation ability. Mitchell is very good, but he's not better than those two. And while Fox gets unfairly discounted as an empty stats guy on a bad team (like Trae used to be), he isn't quite as good as Mitchell. It's a big drop-off to the next tier of JC and Anunoby and OG might be better than JC, but I guess I'll go with the homer pick between the two. And then it's a very very big drop to the rest. I think Bam is overrated.. Especially on this board. He's good.. but he doesn't create for himself. He's not a good away from the basket scorer. He makes good passes and his defense is good but No way is he above Mitchell and Tatum. Or JC. At some point, we have to start giving our guys some credit too! 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandomFan Posted August 27, 2021 Report Share Posted August 27, 2021 (edited) 12 minutes ago, Diesel said: I think Bam is overrated.. Especially on this board. He's good.. but he doesn't create for himself. He's not a good away from the basket scorer. He makes good passes and his defense is good but No way is he above Mitchell and Tatum. Or JC. At some point, we have to start giving our guys some credit too! You're high. Bam is exceedingly underrated on this board, for one thing. And if you think JC can even hold a candle to Bam...there aren't enough face palm gifs in the world for that opinion. Edited August 27, 2021 by RandomFan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators AHF Posted August 27, 2021 Moderators Report Share Posted August 27, 2021 33 minutes ago, Diesel said: I think Bam is overrated.. Especially on this board. He's good.. but he doesn't create for himself. He's not a good away from the basket scorer. He makes good passes and his defense is good but No way is he above Mitchell and Tatum. Or JC. At some point, we have to start giving our guys some credit too! I don't think anyone has him listed above Mitchell and Tatum. The issue was that you listed Ball over him. A conversation can be had around JC but I think it was justified that Bam got a max deal while JC did not. If Miami would not have been willing to give Bam a max deal, other teams would have been lined up to do it while no one was for JC. JC is great and deserves credit but I think the appropriate credit for him in this discussion is moving from the #19 pick to the #5 pick in a draft with some good depth at the top. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedDawg#8 Posted August 27, 2021 Report Share Posted August 27, 2021 Tatum Mitchell Bam Fox JC Anunoby Kuzma Ball Markannen White Allen the rest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Diesel Posted August 27, 2021 Author Premium Member Report Share Posted August 27, 2021 2 hours ago, AHF said: I don't think anyone has him listed above Mitchell and Tatum. The issue was that you listed Ball over him. A conversation can be had around JC but I think it was justified that Bam got a max deal while JC did not. If Miami would not have been willing to give Bam a max deal, other teams would have been lined up to do it while no one was for JC. JC is great and deserves credit but I think the appropriate credit for him in this discussion is moving from the #19 pick to the #5 pick in a draft with some good depth at the top. Actually Randomfan did list Bam above Mitchell and Tatum. I think there's a difference between value and ability. Bam can play a position (C) that doesn't have many above average players. When Plumlee is still in the league collecting a check.. it tells you the dearth for that position. But just because the scarcity of high quality Centers make him a sought after commodity... it doesn't mean that he brings more to the table than JC does. You all have made Bam the second coming of Olajuwon.. when in actuality, his skillset offensively requires an initiator and he's a good defender. Maybe very good. And he can pass the ball. What he brings to the game is not more than what JC brings. My valuation for Ball is more based on what he is as a PG than just his statistics. As a 6'6" PG (Legit) Ball gets a lot of value from me. He's big enough to hamper opposing PGs . 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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