thecampster Posted September 28, 2021 Report Share Posted September 28, 2021 (edited) 12 minutes ago, swanlee said: Well at some point just like Seat Belts, Speed Limits, Vaccines for Polio, Measels and other School required Vaccines for the greater good of society it may need to be mandated if people still refuse and we keep having lockdowns due to new variants. We are almost to that point right now. And if you're willing to give up that freedom, that's fine. That's on you. Like I said, I jumped in line to get vaccinated, out of choice. But we need clear lines drawn when the government can dictate a power over someone's body and it needs to go through the legislative process, not Presidential mandates. That is a line I am not a fan of regardless of who is president. Don't confuse the two issues. Edited September 28, 2021 by thecampster Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Diesel Posted September 28, 2021 Premium Member Report Share Posted September 28, 2021 7 hours ago, sillent said: I agree they shouldn't have to pay. Just like for people that take care of ourselves we shouldn't have to pay because others don't care what they put in there bodies. I don't take aspirin, tylenol or none of that. Modern medicine more than likely wouldn't even react well in my body. That's the key thing though my body. Just like I can't tell nobody how to eat they can't tell me what to put in my body. If you wanna argue do it with the vaccine makers with all this technology and scientific discovery to make something that works better. If it did you wouldn't worry about what others do with their body. Maybe even more would feel more comfortable taking it if they knew they atleast were really protected. People fighting the wrong people and the wrong fight. Nothing is 100%. IF it were eradication of many things would be easy. It's not like scientist are sitting around saying... well, this is 90% effective... that's good enough. In the absence of specialized medicines, your body, genetic makeup and such things determine how effective any drug will be. Because of the genome, it's different for each person. Similar to how some people love chocolate and some don't like it at all. You are never going to get 100% in the medicinal drug game. So there's no need to argue there. The argument lies in Herd Immunity and Pseudo eradication. There's a chance to stop this virus forever. The question is are you only concerned about you or could your concerns be extended to others. Two people I work with have contracted this virus. One a younger man who believed that his youth made him invincible and the other an older man who believed that because he was a believer in Dr. Sebi's teaching and followed everything that Dr. Sebi had ever said that his body was immune. The younger man contracted the virus. He had a short hospital stay. He survived. Came back to work believing that now he was truly immune. Somehow, he got it a second time. This time he got it and mysteriously a little later, the older man got the virus. The older man died within two weeks. The younger man survived and he still believes that he has natural immunity. I believe that had either of them got the vaccine, the older man would still be alive. Yes, I feel that the younger man passed it on to the older man. They work in the same space. Due to his own selfishness, he has aided in the death of somebody else. So far me, this is less about a political side pick. This virus doesn't care about your politics. This is a choice of life or death and it breaks down to a question of do you care about others or is it just about you? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Diesel Posted September 28, 2021 Premium Member Report Share Posted September 28, 2021 22 minutes ago, thecampster said: And if you're willing to give up that freedom, that's fine. That's on you. Like I said, I jumped in line to get vaccinated, out of choice. But we need clear lines drawn when the government can dictate a power over someone's body and it needs to go through the legislative process, not Presidential mandates. That is a line I am not a fan of regardless of who is president. Don't confuse the two issues. You know the interesting (Irony) thing here.... If there is not a "critical mass" where the government or president declares a mandate that all must take the vaccine... In a way it will be the Tuskeegee Experiment all over again. Some people misunderstand the Tuskeegee experiment... This experiment revolved around not giving people treatment to help them overcome syphilis. In other words, those who could provide help decided to stand back and watch. Well, if the president or whoever sees the death rate go up to say 2.0% and doesn't call for a mandate... isn't that the same thing? He would be guilty of just standing back and watching people die. Irony. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swanlee Posted September 28, 2021 Report Share Posted September 28, 2021 (edited) 39 minutes ago, thecampster said: And if you're willing to give up that freedom, that's fine. That's on you. Like I said, I jumped in line to get vaccinated, out of choice. But we need clear lines drawn when the government can dictate a power over someone's body and it needs to go through the legislative process, not Presidential mandates. That is a line I am not a fan of regardless of who is president. Don't confuse the two issues. It's not "giving up" freedom, the vaccine will actually give you more freedom to move about and do what you want without putting other people in danger and also protecting yourself. That is the premise behind other mandates like Seat Belts, Speed limits and other vaccine mandates for schools and other institutions. Most are not feeling very free right now either having to quarantine or be at risk in public. We tried to be nice and let people decide and it turns out about 30-40% of the population do not care about the safety of others and thus we keep looping in this pandemic with new variants that get more dangerous each time. So we gave individual choice a shot and it's not working, time to do something else now. This whole "muh freedums" argument is pretty silly and has no merit we have many other situations where vaccines are mandated and it's not stifling freedom, We also do live in a society whether some like it or not and are actions do impact others. Edited September 28, 2021 by swanlee 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thecampster Posted September 28, 2021 Report Share Posted September 28, 2021 Just now, swanlee said: It's not "giving up" freedom, the vaccine will actually give you more freedom to move about and do what you ant without putting other people in danger and also protecting yourself. That is the premise behind other mandates like Seat Belts, Speed limits and other vaccine mandates for schools and other institutions. Most are not feeling very free right now either having to quarantine or be at risk in public. e tried to be nice and let people decide and it turns out about 30-40% of the population do not care about the safety of others and thus we keep looping in this pandemic with new variants that get more dangerous each time. So we gave individual choice a shot and it's not working, time to do something else now. This whole "muh freedums" argument is pretty silly and has no merit, We do live in a society whether some like it or not and are actions do impact others. Man I hate keyboard warriors. If you feel that strongly, I hope you're first in line to volunteer to go force jabs on people that don't want them. Just stand outside that door and say "open up, the government says so" and lets see how far you get. Freaking internet heroes. If its not "freedom", then I invite you to come try and take it. But make sure its you. Don't stand like a coward behind some police officer you were denigrating last summer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spud2nique Posted September 28, 2021 Report Share Posted September 28, 2021 I listen to KD because he’s smart, like me, we see the world differently than anyone else. Kyrie Irving to take the vaccine eventually? Irving couldn’t participate in the on-site media day festivities, and league sources believe Irving will wind up taking the vaccine, citing influence from his close friend and teammate Kevin Durant. “That doesn’t mean that I’m putting any limits on the future of me being able to join the team,” Irving said later. – via Vincent Goodwill @ Yahoo! Sports Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spud2nique Posted September 28, 2021 Report Share Posted September 28, 2021 If I’m KAT, I prolly punch Mr. The earth is flat in 1/2 meeting with the Nets. Chris Hine: Karl-Anthony Towns said he was appreciative of the two players who may have had reservations about the vaccine but saw how important it was to him and made the decision to get their shots. – via Twitter ChristopherHine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spud2nique Posted September 28, 2021 Report Share Posted September 28, 2021 Speaking of punch faces… Mario Chalmers to play in Puerto Rico Fer Martínez Larrosa: Mario Chalmers has signed with Indios de Mayagüez (Puerto Rico). – via Twitter This thing is really coming full circle ️ for me this morning. WORK IT WORK IT WORK IT!!!! WORK THOSE GLUTES LADIES!!!! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sillent Posted September 28, 2021 Report Share Posted September 28, 2021 5 hours ago, Diesel said: Nothing is 100%. IF it were eradication of many things would be easy. It's not like scientist are sitting around saying... well, this is 90% effective... that's good enough. In the absence of specialized medicines, your body, genetic makeup and such things determine how effective any drug will be. Because of the genome, it's different for each person. Similar to how some people love chocolate and some don't like it at all. You are never going to get 100% in the medicinal drug game. So there's no need to argue there. The argument lies in Herd Immunity and Pseudo eradication. There's a chance to stop this virus forever. The question is are you only concerned about you or could your concerns be extended to others. Two people I work with have contracted this virus. One a younger man who believed that his youth made him invincible and the other an older man who believed that because he was a believer in Dr. Sebi's teaching and followed everything that Dr. Sebi had ever said that his body was immune. The younger man contracted the virus. He had a short hospital stay. He survived. Came back to work believing that now he was truly immune. Somehow, he got it a second time. This time he got it and mysteriously a little later, the older man got the virus. The older man died within two weeks. The younger man survived and he still believes that he has natural immunity. I believe that had either of them got the vaccine, the older man would still be alive. Yes, I feel that the younger man passed it on to the older man. They work in the same space. Due to his own selfishness, he has aided in the death of somebody else. So far me, this is less about a political side pick. This virus doesn't care about your politics. This is a choice of life or death and it breaks down to a question of do you care about others or is it just about you? Than it ain't for my body. Crazy thing is nobodies talking about all the people that's dying and still getting sick after the vaccine. I wonder why? Your examples still just gave an example of personal health. You do what you need to do to keep your body healthy. You can't just take medicine, vaccines or whatever and think nothing will happen. Our diet comes with consequences over time. Which is why unfortunately it's catching up with the older sooner. It's not science it's common sense. Cause and effect 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandomFan Posted September 28, 2021 Report Share Posted September 28, 2021 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Popular Post Diesel Posted September 28, 2021 Premium Member Popular Post Report Share Posted September 28, 2021 2 hours ago, sillent said: Than it ain't for my body. Crazy thing is nobodies talking about all the people that's dying and still getting sick after the vaccine. I wonder why? Your examples still just gave an example of personal health. You do what you need to do to keep your body healthy. You can't just take medicine, vaccines or whatever and think nothing will happen. Our diet comes with consequences over time. Which is why unfortunately it's catching up with the older sooner. It's not science it's common sense. Cause and effect Because there are not many at all. Yes 1 death is a death but the difference is striking How Rates of New Covid-19 Hospital Admissions and Deaths Compare Among fully vaccinated people and among people who were not fully vaccinated in each state since vaccination began. HOSPITALIZATION RATE PER 100,000 DEATH RATE PER 100,000 STATE FOR VACCINATED PEOPLE FOR UNVACCINATED PEOPLE FOR VACCINATED PEOPLE FOR UNVACCINATED PEOPLE Alabama 9 696 75x higher for unvaccinated people 3 124 48x higher for unvaccinated people Alaska 9 154 17x 1 11 10x Arizona 27 1,306 47x 2 182 73x California 9 647 68x 1 58 58x Colorado 24 567 22x 4 37 8x Delaware 7 978 148x 2 26 14x Georgia 5 735 161x 1 99 87x Idaho 11 288 25x 2 30 16x Illinois 20 1,001 48x 5 68 11x Indiana 9 547 57x 4 29 7x Kentucky 21 893 41x 4 85 23x Louisiana 12 347 28x 3 54 19x Maine 6 571 91x 3 24 7x Massachusetts 15 615 39x 4 87 22x Michigan 24 693 28x 9 87 8x Minnesota 40 465 11x 6 71 11x Mississippi 17 702 40x 4 127 28x Montana 11 472 43x 2 42 16x Nebraska 13 458 35x 3 48 16x Nevada 35 1,182 33x 6 98 15x New Hampshire 5 454 88x 2 37 15x New Jersey 7 948 126x 2 96 50x New Mexico 22 535 24x 1 37 25x North Carolina 17 816 47x 3 80 24x North Dakota 37 720 19x 8 47 5x Ohio 8 1,041 135x 1 76 59x Oklahoma 16 1,116 70x 2 158 68x Oregon 21 512 23x 3 32 8x Rhode Island 63 468 6x 4 98 22x South Carolina 12 322 26x 3 39 13x South Dakota 30 515 16x 6 74 11x Tennessee 17 613 36x 2 105 44x Texas 4 735 185x 0.7 61 85x Utah 33 205 5x 1 15 12x Vermont 8 468 61x 3 24 7x Virginia 6 906 155x 2 41 23x Washington 12 606 50x 2 34 13x Washington, D.C. 7 3,326 448x 2 55 23x Wisconsin 20 652 32x 2 30 1 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Diesel Posted September 28, 2021 Premium Member Report Share Posted September 28, 2021 2 hours ago, sillent said: Than it ain't for my body. Crazy thing is nobodies talking about all the people that's dying and still getting sick after the vaccine. I wonder why? Your examples still just gave an example of personal health. You do what you need to do to keep your body healthy. You can't just take medicine, vaccines or whatever and think nothing will happen. Our diet comes with consequences over time. Which is why unfortunately it's catching up with the older sooner. It's not science it's common sense. Cause and effect Over time.... mRNA vaccines don't hang around. They get in and get out. Similar to food. Sure a diet can have consequences. but the over time thing usually talk about more than just 1 meal. The old man's arteries are closing and it's not because back in 1947 he ate a pork chop. It was years of eating pork chops. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member JayBirdHawk Posted September 29, 2021 Premium Member Report Share Posted September 29, 2021 Who wants to provide the cliff notes version. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terrell Posted September 29, 2021 Report Share Posted September 29, 2021 (edited) 13 hours ago, swanlee said: It's not "giving up" freedom, the vaccine will actually give you more freedom to move about and do what you want without putting other people in danger and also protecting yourself. That is the premise behind other mandates like Seat Belts, Speed limits and other vaccine mandates for schools and other institutions. Most are not feeling very free right now either having to quarantine or be at risk in public. We tried to be nice and let people decide and it turns out about 30-40% of the population do not care about the safety of others and thus we keep looping in this pandemic with new variants that get more dangerous each time. So we gave individual choice a shot and it's not working, time to do something else now. This whole "muh freedums" argument is pretty silly and has no merit we have many other situations where vaccines are mandated and it's not stifling freedom, We also do live in a society whether some like it or not and are actions do impact others. This is a touchy subject for me, as I lost my father to Covid before the vaccine rollout. ..I had to tell him goodbye through the hospital window...... Ive came to the conclusion that people wont take this virus seriously until it affects someone they love..I despise anti vaxxers and non mAsk wearers to the core..Its just selfish... This is why I havent read through this thread..My opinion would change on alot of Hawks fans Im sure, and I dont wAnt thAt to hAppen, BecAUse I enjoY It here...GET VACCINATED!! Edited September 29, 2021 by terrell 1 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandomFan Posted September 29, 2021 Report Share Posted September 29, 2021 THIS! This right here. I am beyond furious after reading thru this tweet thread. I have some antivaxx former friends and this makes me want to drive to each of their houses and punch some sense into their stupid heads. If you are an antivaxxer or haven't gotten your shot yet after all this time, then Fuuuuuuuuck Youuuuuu. And for the cherry on top of the Get.The.Vaccine.Sundae 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swanlee Posted September 29, 2021 Report Share Posted September 29, 2021 1 hour ago, RandomFan said: THIS! This right here. I am beyond furious after reading thru this tweet thread. I have some antivaxx former friends and this makes me want to drive to each of their houses and punch some sense into their stupid heads. If you are an antivaxxer or haven't gotten your shot yet after all this time, then Fuuuuuuuuck Youuuuuu. And for the cherry on top of the Get.The.Vaccine.Sundae Yes, at some point these anti vaxxers are going to need to be put in the spotlight for endangering the rest of us. It should be put in the yearly flu vaccine and made mandatory for students in schools like many vaccines are today. Then if we still have these variants causing lockdowns it's time to mandate it and isolate the people that still refuse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thecampster Posted September 29, 2021 Report Share Posted September 29, 2021 29 minutes ago, swanlee said: Yes, at some point these anti vaxxers are going to need to be put in the spotlight for endangering the rest of us. It should be put in the yearly flu vaccine and made mandatory for students in schools like many vaccines are today. Then if we still have these variants causing lockdowns it's time to mandate it and isolate the people that still refuse. That's called imprisonment and sounds an awful like the Japanese interment camps of WW2 (see the loyalty pledge, mandating the pledge of allegiance, etc). Do you even hear yourself? https://www.nytimes.com/2019/09/09/books/review/they-called-us-enemy-george-takei.html That's only 70 years ago. Its not ancient history. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Diesel Posted September 29, 2021 Premium Member Report Share Posted September 29, 2021 16 minutes ago, thecampster said: That's called imprisonment and sounds an awful like the Japanese interment camps of WW2 (see the loyalty pledge, mandating the pledge of allegiance, etc). Do you even hear yourself? https://www.nytimes.com/2019/09/09/books/review/they-called-us-enemy-george-takei.html That's only 70 years ago. Its not ancient history. Is there really a difference in the mechanism of imprisonment and quarantine? Campster, you have to understand, if there's a variant that comes along that is renders the immunization of non-effect and it is just as easily transmissible and as deadly as the d-variant... We are talking about an Extinction Level Event. It's easy to have this Philosophical argument while you are enjoying the luxuries of life. Food, Water, Etc. But if a mutation happens that causes another worldwide pandemic and quarantine... Effected would not only be your own personal health (You can hide away and be fine)... but Farm Workers, Water Workers, Doctors, etc. Where are you going to get food if Farms go out of business. What happens if transport of goods stop? Unless you are some type of doomsday prepper then you're not going to make it. This isn't a philosophical debate... as the video that RF put up shows... this is LIFE AND DEATH. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thecampster Posted September 29, 2021 Report Share Posted September 29, 2021 27 minutes ago, Diesel said: Is there really a difference in the mechanism of imprisonment and quarantine? Campster, you have to understand, if there's a variant that comes along that is renders the immunization of non-effect and it is just as easily transmissible and as deadly as the d-variant... We are talking about an Extinction Level Event. It's easy to have this Philosophical argument while you are enjoying the luxuries of life. Food, Water, Etc. But if a mutation happens that causes another worldwide pandemic and quarantine... Effected would not only be your own personal health (You can hide away and be fine)... but Farm Workers, Water Workers, Doctors, etc. Where are you going to get food if Farms go out of business. What happens if transport of goods stop? Unless you are some type of doomsday prepper then you're not going to make it. This isn't a philosophical debate... as the video that RF put up shows... this is LIFE AND DEATH. Oh get over yourself. It isn't at that point yet. You are advocating for the suspension of civil rights. We don't imprison people over not getting shots. Holy snot! Are they dumb, absolutely but listen to what you're saying. Listen to what he is saying. Let's take a second and look at this. Are you advocating this be done in every country in the world? Because if you only do it in the US and you don't suspend air travel, mandate disinfecting all packages shipped overseas and other protocols, its ridiculous. If you can't secure the borders and get Mexico, Canada to do the same, its pointless. If you can't suspend personal air travel via private planes its pointless. We don't suspend civil rights because people are scared. You haven't taken one second to realize the massive undertaking you are suggesting. Lock up the deniers in the US...we are 4% of the world population. Are we going to go to every other country and lock them up too? People are f'ing starving in 1/2 the world and you want them to stay home and not work for 2 months or to take your shots or not be able to engage in commerce....freaking totalitarian craziness. It's really easy from the comfort of your living room to say "lock em up" but OMFG there are upwards of 30 million of these people in the US alone. There are probably a half billion world wide. You wanna lock them all up. Are you going door to door to do it? Hey how about firing squads? Yah that sounds like a great idea.... Take a second and think about what you're saying before you say it. Many of those "people" you are talking about work in those prisons, those hospitals, those pharmacies, those grocery stores, drive the trucks that deliver your precious toilet paper. Lock em all up...who cares as long I can sit without a mask on in my local movie theater or go get my steak at Long Horns. This conversation isn't about getting a shot or not, its about you trying to force your belief system on someone else. Its about power and control, don't pretend its not. You don't have a right to attend an NBA game, you have a privilege. You don't have a right to insist that Jonathan Isaac get vaccinated so you can watch your precious basketball. Realize that once you give out these rights to government, you aren't just giving them to the party in control. You are giving them to both. You wanna lock up those damn crazy Trumpers...no problem, just wait until they're in power and have a problem with vegans. Don't give the government a right you wouldn't want your worst enemy to have because that's how it goes. I have no idea how its devolved to this. I can't be more pro vaccine but you're making me hate pro vaccine people because its becoming religion. 90% of the people arguing this don't have a basic clue about economics, impacts of decision making or even the effect of words. Please take a second and forget your own views and hear what I'm saying. Because someone doesn't agree with your worldview, we don't lock them up. These people are not breaking a law. You get this passed into law and I'll be right there supporting you. But until its law, its a power grab and the thing of despots no matter how well intentioned, no matter what the precedent. If its not legal, its not legal or else everything else is forfeit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swanlee Posted September 29, 2021 Report Share Posted September 29, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, Diesel said: Is there really a difference in the mechanism of imprisonment and quarantine? Campster, you have to understand, if there's a variant that comes along that is renders the immunization of non-effect and it is just as easily transmissible and as deadly as the d-variant... We are talking about an Extinction Level Event. It's easy to have this Philosophical argument while you are enjoying the luxuries of life. Food, Water, Etc. But if a mutation happens that causes another worldwide pandemic and quarantine... Effected would not only be your own personal health (You can hide away and be fine)... but Farm Workers, Water Workers, Doctors, etc. Where are you going to get food if Farms go out of business. What happens if transport of goods stop? Unless you are some type of doomsday prepper then you're not going to make it. This isn't a philosophical debate... as the video that RF put up shows... this is LIFE AND DEATH. I think after 18 months of this is is time to just stop trying to talk to the anti vaxxers, we tried it their way and 18 months later we are still in the middle of this mess primarily because 30-40% of the population either don't care about the health of others, have a death wish or are just to ignorant to help society get past this. The won't wear masks, they won't social distance, they won't get vaccinated, literally won't do ANYTHING to help us get past this. Lazy, ignorant and outright dangerous. Medical science provided safe vaccines in an amazing short period of time that has never been seen in human history yet we have nut jobs not willing to lift a finger to help stop the spread of this. With easy world wide travel and humans literally being in every nook and cranny on the planet now this will never stop by doing nothing. Doing nothing is not only NOT an option doing nothing means others will needlessly die. Screw them, the time for reasoning is past, more extreme measures are going to be needed if people still refuse to do anything. Any sympathy for these death cult members should have elapsed by now. If they are not willing to help prevent the further transmission of this virus then they are a conduit of death to others and should be treated as such Edited September 29, 2021 by swanlee 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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