DEFINE: Super Star...

[Gray Mule]

When we declare that we have a super Star or two or three, we must decide who or what makes a Super Star.

First of all, a Super Star cannot carry the entire team without assistance.  However, he must be a leader and able to lead others.  When the going gets rough, he is the one that the team and coaches turn to.

When the game is on the line he's the one you want to have the ball.  Super Star relief pitcher.  Super Star quarterback.  We think of the Braves in the World Series and the Falcons and Matt Ryan late last Sunday.  

Right now, the Hawks Super Star isn't super.  He's more like Young Trae than he is Trae Young.  The Hawks try.  They really, really do.  As bad as we, the fans, dislike this losing, I'm sure the players hate it worse.  If they don't, something is bad wrong.  Something is missing.  If we knew exactly what it is, we would fix it.  Sooner or later this losing comes to an end.  Shots will fall.  Refs will make the correct calls.  Our opponents will mess up.

Super Star - - He's the leader.  Teams win because of him.  Fans come out to watch him play. 

How do you define "Super Star?"

 

[macdaddy]

I don't think you can be a superstar until you do something significant in this league.   Trae, Luka aren't superstars yet.    Harden, Jokic and even AD aren't superstars.    To me it's Steph, KD, Lebron, Giannis, Kawhi.  The rest are star players, great players.    

[Bonkers]

35 minutes ago, macdaddy said:

I don't think you can be a superstar until you do something significant in this league.   Trae, Luka aren't superstars yet.    Harden, Jokic and even AD aren't superstars.    To me it's Steph, KD, Lebron, Giannis, Kawhi.  The rest are star players, great players.    

THIS!! I've seen people throw around the word superstar on here pretty loosely

Trae is not a superstar and Luka isn't one either. People need to stop overrating them becuz they can put up sum flash stats

Edited November 10, 2021 by Bonkers

[macdaddy]

9 minutes ago, Bonkers said:

THIS!! I've seen people throw around the word superstar on here pretty loosely

Trae is not a superstar and Luka isn't one either. People need to stop overrating them becuz they can put up sum flash stats

Yeah and AD has a bubble title with Lebron.  Jokic has an mvp but hasn't shown he can take the team to the finals.   They are close but not there imo.   You could say KD wouldn't have a title with Steph but i think KD was the best player on those teams so i'll give him that.   

[AHF]

I'm good with whatever definition someone wants to work with for superstar but Trae is in that short list of elite franchise players outside of the multiple MVP crowd.  Steph, KD, LeBron, Kawhi and Giannis are the top tier with championship rings and multiple league and/or finals MVPs.  Beyond that I think Trae is in the discussion with the next group of players that are all considered to be "franchise" guys who haven't been the #1 on a championship team ala Lillard, Jokic, Paul, Luka, Embiid, George, Butler, Harden, Irving, Butler, AD, Tatum, Beal, etc.  Better than some of them and worse than some of them but in that group for discussion.  If those guys are superstars then Trae is for me.  If they aren't, he isn't.  

[Diesel]

4 hours ago, macdaddy said:

I don't think you can be a superstar until you do something significant in this league.   Trae, Luka aren't superstars yet.    Harden, Jokic and even AD aren't superstars.    To me it's Steph, KD, Lebron, Giannis, Kawhi.  The rest are star players, great players.    

There's confliction all through this post. 

Harden and Jokic has an MVP that says.. they are something.  Kawhi has been key in Championship games but no MVPs.

Now... if you would have said Steph, KD, Lebron, and Giannis, we would be less conflicted because those guys have MVPs and Championships.   But then by definition, you would have to easily rule out CP3, Dame, Barkley, Ewing, and a whole lot of other guys.   I'm for it, just have to know what the standard is. The standard can't be because I like you. 

 

[Diesel]

40 minutes ago, AHF said:

I'm good with whatever definition someone wants to work with for superstar but Trae is in that short list of elite franchise players outside of the multiple MVP crowd.  Steph, KD, LeBron, Kawhi and Giannis are the top tier with championship rings and multiple league and/or finals MVPs.  Beyond that I think Trae is in the discussion with the next group of players that are all considered to be "franchise" guys who haven't been the #1 on a championship team ala Lillard, Jokic, Paul, Luka, Embiid, George, Butler, Harden, Irving, Butler, AD, Tatum, Beal, etc.  Better than some of them and worse than some of them but in that group for discussion.  If those guys are superstars then Trae is for me.  If they aren't, he isn't.  

Yeah.. in that same vein, I think Trae is the first Hawk in history to score 5000 points in the least number of games. 

Moreover... His Debut Playoffs Records will probably stand forever. 

He averaged 30/10/5 in his first playoffs.

That's why he has received so much acclaim.   Forget about the shiver and the bow...  The stats puts him in company with the very best. 

Kobe's Best playoff series was 35, 9, and 4.3  That's just one series. 

Magic's best was 26, 8, and 13.    Again, that's just a series. 

Like I said, His Playoffs 2021 puts him in rare air. 

 

[TheNorthCydeRises]

4 hours ago, macdaddy said:

I don't think you can be a superstar until you do something significant in this league.   Trae, Luka aren't superstars yet.    Harden, Jokic and even AD aren't superstars.    To me it's Steph, KD, Lebron, Giannis, Kawhi.  The rest are star players, great players.    

Was Dominique a superstar?

[Diesel]

7 minutes ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

Was Dominique a superstar?

Exactly. 

What are the top 75 players?    What standard are we using?

[benhillboy]

I’m simple.  Jimmy Butler types who hold net ratings of +28.  Not Lilliard types at -9.  Everyone who voted for him as a Top 75 player should be jailed.

Edited November 10, 2021 by benhillboy

[Bonkers]

12 minutes ago, benhillboy said:

I’m simple.  Jimmy Butler types who hold net ratings of +28.  Not Lilliard types at -9.  Everyone who voted for him as a Top 75 player should be jailed.

Man Dame being in the top 75 players and not Dwight Howard made me sick!!

[RedDawg#8]

What Trae did in his debut playoff run put him in the superstar conversation. Not because I or any Hawks fan say so, but because every talking head on every media outlet, and basketball fans alike ALL agreed that he was undeniable and that they were wrong. 

Everyone said win first, then do it in the playoffs first, then go win  playoff series. Trae did all of it, and in spectacular fashion.

When people had to go on air and publicly say "We were wrong, I was wrong, this kid is special, he is legit, he is a superstar" then by golly Hawksquawk, you have yourself a superstar.

We suck right now. OK. Got it.

Trae is still legit. 24 & 9 while not getting to the line and playing through adversity. He is who he already proved himself to be. 

We will start to click again soon. No worries. 

 

[Final_quest]

It's fickle.  When Trae is breaking records in his first trip to the playoffs and scoring 48 points in a game, Reggie Miller calls him a superstar.  When Hawks are in the basement the superstar card is revoked.  

If you want to reserve the superstar label for guys like Curry, Lebron, and KD, fine.  Trae is the best player we've had since Nique.  I want to see how far he can take us.  

[PSSSHHHRRR87]

It seems this thread has made "superstar" into an ambiguous term but it is a term that does get thrown around pretty loosely. Superstars are players that are capable of leading a team and getting a clutch basket when his team needs it most. A superstar is a player who captivates an audience and draws a crowd everywhere he goes.. it's not a consequence that Lebron tickets go for $$$ when he comes to Atlanta while Donovan Mitchell tickets... don't. A superstar also has the ability to make the players around him better. Trae has begun his journey to becoming a superstar player in the same breath as Curry but in order to get over the hump, he has to figure out how to play under the new foul rules, put the team on his back, and become the guy that everybody comes out to see.

Team basketball is great to watch but it needs a leader. We have a talented team at every position that's capable to great things but it needs its leader to bring the energy and intensity. The quote from Trae about playoff basketball was disconcerting to me. We are not focused on the task at hand. We are not focused on winning basketball games. I put some of that on coach McMillan but it's on the players to go out there and perform.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

On 11/10/2021 at 5:13 PM, Diesel said:

Exactly. 

What are the top 75 players?    What standard are we using?

 

I ask one question, and I got one response and a like.

The "silence" is deafening.

 

Dominique, by all intents and purposes, is considered to be a superstar during his era . . despite only reaching Game 7 of the Semifinals ONCE in his career, and never made it to a Conference Finals.

So if "winning" is the main criteria of being a superstar, Nique was NOT a superstar.

But I don't think anyone in our fan base will say that he wasn't.

As for Trae, here's what they need to do.

 

 

RESPECT THE SUPERSTAR