Official Game Thread: Half-Baked-Hawks at Several-Sixers

[kg01]

Just now, Spud2nique said:

Just saw this, ya he was really good. 

Just proof you and @Diesel are the same person.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

1 hour ago, Spud2nique said:

Lauren seemed nervous calling her first game last night. I missed Rath’s play by play as he really is a pro.

Lauren is so damn cute though! 

After the jump ball she yells: 

AND WE’RE OFF BABY… 

then silence for 30 seconds..

Me:  (You and BO still there or…)

I love her laugh too. Those lil t hee hee’s like a cute girl laugh none of those high course HA’S! HA HA HA HA. 

@kg01 you still runnin Peo out there against the Knicks on Xmas? Can I get some burn? 

 

Lauren + Renee would've been outstanding last night.  Brian was solid nonetheless.

[Spud2nique]

4 minutes ago, Spud2nique said:

Uber Don Nelson.

 I meant under I don’t need an Uber. 

[Final_quest]

4 hours ago, Peoriabird said:

Some poster claim that he isn't an NBA level talent.

What I said about Mays is that a 2nd round pick not getting PT is most likely not NBA level.  Most NBA 2nd rounders are out of the league after two years. 

Mays actually showed that he could be a 3rd string PG.  Not who you want as your primary backup, but someone who gets PT if one of the other guys is out.  Similar to the BG role.  It's hard to project a role much bigger than that unless he continues to play meaningful minutes.  

Either way.  Congrats to Mays for the best game of his career.  

[Final_quest]

3 hours ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

Right now, Cam is almost prime Smith.

And before everybody goes off the deep end with a NOOOOO ...people need to remember that JR was consistently a 12 - 18 ppg scorer most of his career, and functioned well either as a potent 6th man type scorer, or as a 2nd / 3rd option scorer as a starter

JR had all of the talent in the world as an offensive player. He just couldn't put it all together from a consistency and mental standpoint.

I think Cam has more upside, but would also be lucky to have a career as good as JR.  Still stuck on Cam's mental issue being lack of confidence.  JR and Josh Smith had false confidence.  They had more dog than Cam.  Cam has a bit of that Nick Anderson, Fultz, and now Ben Simmons.  Something like the yips, but not as severe as those guys.  

[bleachkit]

28 minutes ago, Final_quest said:

What I said about Mays is that a 2nd round pick not getting PT is most likely not NBA level.  Most NBA 2nd rounders are out of the league after two years. 

Mays actually showed that he could be a 3rd string PG.  Not who you want as your primary backup, but someone who gets PT if one of the other guys is out.  Similar to the BG role.  It's hard to project a role much bigger than that unless he continues to play meaningful minutes.  

Either way.  Congrats to Mays for the best game of his career.  

Mays could be a Jalen Brunson type. 

[shakes]

14 hours ago, kg01 said:

B-b-but that can't be.  I was told that guy was the second coming of Gary Payton and Sidney Moncrief?

So happy to see Cam saute that guy time and time again.

Yea, didn’t shock me at all.  Thybulle’s defense is all smoke and mirrors.  His strategy is to get beat and then either steal, block or knock away the ball from behind.  Don’t get me wrong, he’s amazing at that, probably the best in the NBA, but it’s a gimmick way to play defense and he ends up getting beat clean a lot because it’s all high risk high reward.

He got Cam once early and then Cam adjusted and used his height and athletic ability to treat him like the turnstile he really is underneath all the smoke and mirrors.

[marco102]

50 minutes ago, Final_quest said:

I think Cam has more upside, but would also be lucky to have a career as good as JR.  Still stuck on Cam's mental issue being lack of confidence.  JR and Josh Smith had false confidence.  They had more dog than Cam.  Cam has a bit of that Nick Anderson, Fultz, and now Ben Simmons.  Something like the yips, but not as severe as those guys.  

Way too early in his career to be making these conclusions. He has been plenty confident this season and we haven't seen the moping about.

The comment John made about Cam being angry at himself is more likely Cam keeping himself fired up and engaged. 

This is also why I said we need to give him and Dre more time to see how they develop. I am not against trading them for the right player, but if Cam keeps this up, he is the exact player we need to go deeper in the playoffs. Same with Dre.

Edited December 24, 2021 by marco102

[Spud2nique]

1 hour ago, Final_quest said:

What I said about Mays is that a 2nd round pick not getting PT is most likely not NBA level.  Most NBA 2nd rounders are out of the league after two years. 

Mays actually showed that he could be a 3rd string PG.  Not who you want as your primary backup, but someone who gets PT if one of the other guys is out.  Similar to the BG role.  It's hard to project a role much bigger than that unless he continues to play meaningful minutes.  

Either way.  Congrats to Mays for the best game of his career.  

I don’t care what you say I been wearing my Cam ! Cam rose up for Spud!

[Final_quest]

I’ll say this.  Cam is WAY better than I projected this year.  Like I thought he would be headed towards Marvin Bagley territory.  
 

Still see him closer to JR Smith or Marvin Williams level player.  Definitely not an all star.  But much better than I thought.  His spot up three is getting reliable.  He could become better than average, but THE guy?  I just don’t see him making a leap like that.  

[Hawkmoor]

13 minutes ago, Final_quest said:

I’ll say this.  Cam is WAY better than I projected this year.  Like I thought he would be headed towards Marvin Bagley territory.  
 

Still see him closer to JR Smith or Marvin Williams level player.  Definitely not an all star.  But much better than I thought.  His spot up three is getting reliable.  He could become better than average, but THE guy?  I just don’t see him making a leap like that.  

I've been critical of Cam's inconsistency in his short career, but I will say this:  I believe that Cam CAN be a number one option if TREATED as a number one option.  Not THE number one option, but a 1b to Trae's 1a.  Cam had to play second fiddle to Zion at Duke.  Now he is playing second, third fiddle to Trae Young.   Thats why his game is HESITANT.  His short basketball career past high school is him being a option instead of being the man.  He went off last night again against primarily the 76er starters. 

The problem is when Trae comes back, the offense is NOT gonna have the same flow as last night.  Trae gonna pound the ball.  The wings are gonna receive passes from Trae ( when he does pass the ball) out of rhythm.  I don't like the ball flowing primarily through Trae because you gonna get either a logo three, a tricky dribble from outside the elbow and try and blow pass the defender, or a lob.  Its not conducive to the wing players getting involved.

Edited December 24, 2021 by Hawkmoor

[LucastheThird]

2 minutes ago, Hawkmoor said:

I've been critical of Cam's inconsistency in his short career, but I will say this:  I believe that Cam CAN be a number one option if TREATED as a number one option.  Not THE number one option, but a 1b to Trae's 1a.  Cam had to play second fiddle to Zion at Duke.  Now he is playing second, third fiddle to Trae Young.   Thats why his game is HESITANT.  His short basketball career past high school is him being a option instead of being the man.  He went off last night again against primarily the 76er starters. 

The problem is when Trae comes back, the offense is NOT gonna have the same flow as last night.  Trae gonna pound the ball.  The wings are gonna receive passes from Trae ( when he does pass the ball) out of rhythm.  I don't like the ball flowing primarily through Trae because you gonna get either a logo three, a tricky dribble from outside the elbow and try and blow pass the defender, or a lob.  Its not conducive to the wing players getting involved.

I can agree with this. Our guys aren't so bad at basketball that Trae needs to pound the rock for the whole possession. I've been saying pretty consistently this year that Trae needs to start playing off the ball more and allow for another (or 2) ball handlers take the pressure off of him. This will allow the offense to flow better and keep our wings invested in the game more. 

 

Bogi and Cam have shown this year that they can be the ball handler in spurts. Mays is serviceable enough for the 2nd team and spot minutes with starters. Shariffe still needs to show it against NBA competition but I think he can as well. 

[Peoriabird]

2 hours ago, Final_quest said:

Either way.  Congrats to Mays for the best game of his career.  

Actually that wasn't Mays' best game of his career

[Hawkmoor]

9 minutes ago, LucastheThird said:

I can agree with this. Our guys aren't so bad at basketball that Trae needs to pound the rock for the whole possession. I've been saying pretty consistently this year that Trae needs to start playing off the ball more and allow for another (or 2) ball handlers take the pressure off of him. This will allow the offense to flow better and keep our wings invested in the game more. 

 

Bogi and Cam have shown this year that they can be the ball handler in spurts. Mays is serviceable enough for the 2nd team and spot minutes with starters. Shariffe still needs to show it against NBA competition but I think he can as well. 

You see what I see.  The Hawks have too much talent and depth for the ball to be dominated by their point guard.  I like him playing off the ball sometimes as you suggested.   Trae NEEDS another dominant presence on offense with control of the ball.  Its why I have been harping about the Hawks trading for Kyrie Irving ( which obviously they will not do, but it looks good for my point).  Cam is showing that HE can be the Kyrie Irving for the Hawks, a playmaker opposite Trae that demands possessions be run through him instead of Trae. 

The beauty of it is Trae's offense can come EASIER to him if the ball wasn't in his hands at the point of attack soo much.  Cam looked fantastic coming off screens last night.  The Hawks could run more pin downs that feature Cam coming off screens at different points on the court.  Cam is a very good passer also.  He can be the man, with his height advantage, to find Trae at the wing or point, coming out of those pin downs.

Edited December 24, 2021 by Hawkmoor

[Final_quest]

13 minutes ago, Hawkmoor said:

I've been critical of Cam's inconsistency in his short career, but I will say this:  I believe that Cam CAN be a number one option if TREATED as a number one option.  Not THE number one option, but a 1b to Trae's 1a.  Cam had to play second fiddle to Zion at Duke.  Now he is playing second, third fiddle to Trae Young.   Thats why his game is HESITANT.  His short basketball career past high school is him being a option instead of being the man.  He went off last night again against primarily the 76er starters. 

The problem is when Trae comes back, the offense is NOT gonna have the same flow as last night.  Trae gonna pound the ball.  The wings are gonna receive passes from Trae ( when he does pass the ball) out of rhythm.  I don't like the ball flowing primarily through Trae because you gonna get either a logo three, a tricky dribble from outside the elbow and try and blow pass the defender, or a lob.  Its not conducive to the wing players getting involved.

That’s probably close to what most pro Cam fans believe.  That’s basically saying we should eventually trade either Cam or Trae.  

[Hawkmoor]

2 minutes ago, Final_quest said:

That’s probably close to what most pro Cam fans believe.  That’s basically saying we should eventually trade either Cam or Trae.  

WHY?  Thats the problem keeping just one player.  The Nets got a big three.  Irving is a superstar point guard that deferred to James Harden and let Harden run the point.  Thats the Hawks problem, giving Trae too much control of the team.  THATS the beef between him and Lloyd Pierce.  Pierce was right.

[Final_quest]

2 minutes ago, Hawkmoor said:

WHY?  Thats the problem keeping just one player.  The Nets got a big three.  Irving is a superstar point guard that deferred to James Harden and let Harden run the point.  Thats the Hawks problem, giving Trae too much control of the team.  THATS the beef between him and Lloyd Pierce.  Pierce was right.

Based off what you said Trae can’t dominate the ball.  So I guess I don’t understand how Trae and Cam would coexist if you take the ball away from Trae?  

[marco102]

Two agendas going against each other.

Offense isn't the problem for the Hawks. Cam and Trae can work together. 

@Final_quest you are moving the goal post here. We said we should be patient to see how the wings develop before shipping them out. Even you are surprised by the incremental improvement Cam has made this season. The flashes he shows are all star level. It is all about if he can put it together consistently.

@Hawkmoor when Trae sits the Hawks have one of the worst offenses ever. If the others were more competent, Trae wouldn't dominate the ball. Also usage doesn't mean tribbling the air out of the ball.

[Hawkmoor]

6 minutes ago, Final_quest said:

Based off what you said Trae can’t dominate the ball.  So I guess I don’t understand how Trae and Cam would coexist if you take the ball away from Trae?  

Trae shouldn't dominate the ball.  Trae can coexist with Cam being a number one option if Trae WANTED to.  This goes back, AGAIN, to Trae having too much power.  PROOF is him being the point of attack of getting Llyod Pierce fired.  Thats not my opinion, thats recorded fact.  The Hawks GM and coaching staff would have to reign Trae in by changing the offense.

[Hawkmoor]

Just now, marco102 said:

Two agendas going against each other.

Offense isn't the problem for the Hawks. Cam and Trae can work together. 

@Final_quest you are moving the goal post here. We said we should be patient to see how the wings develop before shipping them out. Even you are surprised by the incremental improvement Cam has made this season. The flashes he shows are all star level. It is all about if he can put it together consistently.

@Hawkmoor when Trae sits the Hawks have one of the worst offenses ever. If the others were more competent, Trae wouldn't dominate the ball. Also usage doesn't mean tribbling the air out of the ball.

Well, duh.  If Trae IS YOUR ATTACK, of course the offense is gonna look like crap when he is not in there if you don't run anything else.  Guess what?  Trae didn't play last night, the Hawks changed their offense, and it worked.