Official Game Thread: Half-Baked-Hawks at Several-Sixers

[marco102]

1 minute ago, Hawkmoor said:

Trae shouldn't dominate the ball.  Trae can coexist with Cam being a number one option if Trae WANTED to.  This goes back, AGAIN, to Trae having too much power.  PROOF is him being the point of attack of getting Llyod Pierce fired.  Thats not my opinion, thats recorded fact.  The Hawks GM and coaching staff would have to reign Trae in by changing the offense.

Actually, John, Cam, Trae and a few others were the reason Lloyd got fired.  It wasn't just Trae, but that doesn't meet your agenda. If you want me to go pull up the articles and give you the quotes I will.

[marco102]

Just now, Hawkmoor said:

Well, duh.  If Trae IS YOUR ATTACK, of course the offense is gonna look like crap when he is not in there if you don't run anything else.  Guess what?  Trae didn't play last night, the Hawks changed their offense, and it worked.

The Hawks have the second best offense in the league and you are on here talking about change ups when we put up 98 whole points.  Man stop. It's been the defense. You can argue about Trae there. 

[Hawkmoor]

Just now, marco102 said:

Actually, John, Cam, Trae and a few others were the reason Lloyd got fired.  It wasn't just Trae, but that doesn't meet your agenda. If you want me to go pull up the articles and give you the quotes I will.

What agenda?  Why must there be a agenda if someone has a critical opinion of Matt Ryan, I meant, Trae Young, the other ice?  

[Hawkmoor]

1 minute ago, marco102 said:

The Hawks have the second best offense in the league and you are on here talking about change ups when we put up 98 whole points.  Man stop. It's been the defense. You can argue about Trae there. 

I guarantee you there will be no Hawks sneaking up on other teams in the playoffs this season like last season.  They gonna trap Young like crazy or put height on him and force the ball out of his hands.  Its exactly what the Nets did the last time they played:

 

 

 

[marco102]

1 minute ago, Hawkmoor said:

What agenda?  Why must there be a agenda if someone has a critical opinion of Matt Ryan, I meant, Trae Young, the other ice?  

When you constantly hate on someone, it's an agenda.  

Would the Nets take the ball out of KD's hand to give it Blake Griffin?  Nope.

Trae is our best offensive player and you are acting like he's Kent Bazemore out there. 

If Trae was doing so much wrong Nate would bench him. He's doing exactly what the coaches want him to do.  Cam is no where as good as Trae on offense so he shouldn't have the ball as much. Once Cam proves he can consistenly be what he's been these last two games, then we can have the converstation about taking the ball out of Trae's hands. 

However, we have one of the best offenses in the league because Trae can generate easy looks for everyone.  Not sure why you are complaining about that. 

[marco102]

1 minute ago, Hawkmoor said:

I guarantee you there will be no Hawks sneaking up on other teams in the playoffs this season like last season.  They gonna trap Young like crazy or put height on him and force the ball out of his hands.  Its exactly what the Nets did the last time they played:

 

 

 

And if we replace TLC with Bogi, we probably win. Next comment. 

[ATLHawks3]

14 minutes ago, marco102 said:

And if we replace TLC with Bogi, we probably win. Next comment. 

Or Cam. I think Cam was still injured when that game occurred.

Edited December 24, 2021 by ATLHawks3

[kg01]

18 minutes ago, marco102 said:

And if we replace TLC with Bogi, we probably win. Next comment. 

I blame you for engaging.  Thats not a real conversation.  Anybody who witnessed that magic game and came away doubting Trae's importance?  Yikes.

[Hawkmoor]

44 minutes ago, marco102 said:

When you constantly hate on someone, it's an agenda.  

Would the Nets take the ball out of KD's hand to give it Blake Griffin?  Nope.

Trae is our best offensive player and you are acting like he's Kent Bazemore out there. 

If Trae was doing so much wrong Nate would bench him. He's doing exactly what the coaches want him to do.  Cam is no where as good as Trae on offense so he shouldn't have the ball as much. Once Cam proves he can consistenly be what he's been these last two games, then we can have the converstation about taking the ball out of Trae's hands. 

However, we have one of the best offenses in the league because Trae can generate easy looks for everyone.  Not sure why you are complaining about that. 

Trae is a good player.  Trae is not a EFFICIENT player.

[aali34]

5 minutes ago, Hawkmoor said:

Trae is a good player.  Trae is not a EFFICIENT player.

This season he is. Field goal percentage and 3 point percentage are way up and turnovers down.

Right now the issue shouldn't be whether Trae and Cam can coexist. It should be having Lou, Gallo, and Delon step back and let Cam lead the second unit. Once he gets consistent at that, let him run with the starters.

[marco102]

20 minutes ago, Hawkmoor said:

Trae is a good player.  Trae is not a EFFICIENT player.

He's one of the most efficient guards in the league this season what are you talking about? 

Actually, he's been one of the most efficient guards in the league since his sophomore season.

Edited December 24, 2021 by marco102

[Hawkmoor]

14 minutes ago, aali34 said:

This season he is. Field goal percentage and 3 point percentage are way up and turnovers down.

Right now the issue shouldn't be whether Trae and Cam can coexist. It should be having Lou, Gallo, and Delon step back and let Cam lead the second unit. Once he gets consistent at that, let him run with the starters.

There is no problem with that, I can go with that.  Groom him as the man with Delon, then let him run with the starters.  Again, what type of offense would you run with him AND Trae?  I found a article, which I knew was gonna be easy to do, which goes word for word why I feel the Hawks have to get Trae to share the ball with another bona fide playmaker.  Its like this guy channeled exactly my complete thoughts on this.  Every point he made I made previously in this thread. To get to the next level, the Hawks need another playmaker to pair WITH Young:

https://mabsidam.com/2021/02/10/can-you-win-a-championship-with-trae-young-as-your-1/

Trae Young is a throw back volume shooter. Young shoots sub 45% from the field but plays with the belief that his teams best chance at winning is if he can find his rhythm and shoot them to victory, it’s reminiscent of AI in Philly in the early 2000’s. It must be noted however that this style of basketball is very wishy washy when it comes to team results. On one side is Kobe Bryant who led his team to back to back championships being a volume scorer while on the other side are good stats bad team guys like Bradley Beal or Young himself. It’s already worrying that Trae Young is one of the leading faces of the NBA’s current “dribble-dribble-dribble-shoot….” wave but it’s even more concerning when you realize Young is a small guard and this style of basketball is hardest on them as they don’t have the necessary body(well unless you’re AI) to carry the weight of an entire offense.

 

Accepting Trae Young for who he is as a scorer has to be the first correction the Atlanta Hawks make if they are to build an actual championship team around him. In the last 20 years they’ve only been 3 teams who won a championship where the team’s best player in the finals was an undoubtedly a guard;

2006 – Miami Heat = Dwyane Wade.

2009/2010 – Los Angeles Lakers = Kobe Bryant.

2015 – Golden State Warriors = Steph Curry.

In the 2006 Finals D-Wade was going to the charity stripe about 16 times a game. Kobe was the complete two way player at this point and made first team all defense in both these championship seasons. Curry started to redefine basketball with his all time elite 3 point shooting in 2015. It’s worth wondering which one can be an actual path for Trae Young. The Kobe route is simply impossible because Trae Young will never be that much of an elite defender. The Curry route? He is a very good shooter with great range but isn’t consistent enough as a 3 point shooter to bring the same floor stretching dimensions that Curry brings. The only option is the D-Wade route which actually suits his game quite well;

Trae Young gets to the charity stripe at a shade below Joel Embiid who is a 7 footer. Asking Trae Young to get to the line 15+ times over a 7 game series is very much possible but to fully mirror the 2006 Heat one of the Hawks has to become a more guaranteed scoring threat. In 06 Shaq shot 60% from the field for an easy 20 PPG as D-Wade had a career year averaging 27 PPG on 49.5% shooting. One of the current Hawks has to step up and become a reliable 20 PPG on respectable splits to allow Young room to have bad shooting nights and concentrate on the other sides of his game;

 

Trae Young thrives in this team as the floor stretcher and lead playmaker. Allowing him to focus on these two traits as someone else picks up the lion share of the scoring burden will allow this Hawks team to make the leap. Another reliable scoring option will also help Young not go into hero-ball mode when a game seems to be escaping the Hawks. Defensively he’ll never be anything higher than average but he is still enough of an offensive threat that you can live with what he gives you on that end.

So can you win a championship with Trae Young as your best player? In my opinion yes but it’s a narrow road that requires another elite scoring option and a willingness from Trae Young to take a step back as a scorer and focus in as a playmaker and off ball threat.

The Atlanta Hawks had Luka Doncic in their hands and traded him for someone they felt better suited the city and their target market. The Hawks front office are happy with Trae Young’s impact off the court as he is an easily relatable player and thus a marketable star player with an aesthetically appealing finesse game. It was the right marketing/brand choice for a team in “that” city to trade for him but it will all be useless if they don’t make the necessary on court moves to see their Franchise Player thrive and win.

 

Edited December 24, 2021 by Hawkmoor

[aali34]

2 minutes ago, Hawkmoor said:

There is no problem with that, I can go with that.  Groom him as the man with Delon, then let him run with the starters.  Again, what type of offense would you run with him AND Trae? 

 

Something like what CP3 and James Harden ran in Houston is my guess. The fun part is getting to see it unfold. 

[marco102]

12 minutes ago, Hawkmoor said:

There is no problem with that, I can go with that.  Groom him as the man with Delon, then let him run with the starters.  Again, what type of offense would you run with him AND Trae?  I found a article, which I knew was gonna be easy to do, which goes word for word why I feel the Hawks have to get Trae to share the ball with another bona fide playmaker.  Its like this guy channeled exactly my complete thoughts on this.  Every point he made I made previously in this thread. To get to the next level, the Hawks need another playmaker to pair WITH Young:

https://mabsidam.com/2021/02/10/can-you-win-a-championship-with-trae-young-as-your-1/

Trae Young is a throw back volume shooter. Young shoots sub 45% from the field but plays with the belief that his teams best chance at winning is if he can find his rhythm and shoot them to victory, it’s reminiscent of AI in Philly in the early 2000’s. It must be noted however that this style of basketball is very wishy washy when it comes to team results. On one side is Kobe Bryant who led his team to back to back championships being a volume scorer while on the other side are good stats bad team guys like Bradley Beal or Young himself. It’s already worrying that Trae Young is one of the leading faces of the NBA’s current “dribble-dribble-dribble-shoot….” wave but it’s even more concerning when you realize Young is a small guard and this style of basketball is hardest on them as they don’t have the necessary body(well unless you’re AI) to carry the weight of an entire offense.

 

Accepting Trae Young for who he is as a scorer has to be the first correction the Atlanta Hawks make if they are to build an actual championship team around him. In the last 20 years they’ve only been 3 teams who won a championship where the team’s best player in the finals was an undoubtedly a guard;

2006 – Miami Heat = Dwyane Wade.

2009/2010 – Los Angeles Lakers = Kobe Bryant.

2015 – Golden State Warriors = Steph Curry.

In the 2006 Finals D-Wade was going to the charity stripe about 16 times a game. Kobe was the complete two way player at this point and made first team all defense in both these championship seasons. Curry started to redefine basketball with his all time elite 3 point shooting in 2015. It’s worth wondering which one can be an actual path for Trae Young. The Kobe route is simply impossible because Trae Young will never be that much of an elite defender. The Curry route? He is a very good shooter with great range but isn’t consistent enough as a 3 point shooter to bring the same floor stretching dimensions that Curry brings. The only option is the D-Wade route which actually suits his game quite well;

Trae Young gets to the charity stripe at a shade below Joel Embiid who is a 7 footer. Asking Trae Young to get to the line 15+ times over a 7 game series is very much possible but to fully mirror the 2006 Heat one of the Hawks has to become a more guaranteed scoring threat. In 06 Shaq shot 60% from the field for an easy 20 PPG as D-Wade had a career year averaging 27 PPG on 49.5% shooting. One of the current Hawks has to step up and become a reliable 20 PPG on respectable splits to allow Young room to have bad shooting nights and concentrate on the other sides of his game;

 

Trae Young thrives in this team as the floor stretcher and lead playmaker. Allowing him to focus on these two traits as someone else picks up the lion share of the scoring burden will allow this Hawks team to make the leap. Another reliable scoring option will also help Young not go into hero-ball mode when a game seems to be escaping the Hawks. Defensively he’ll never be anything higher than average but he is still enough of an offensive threat that you can live with what he gives you on that end.

So can you win a championship with Trae Young as your best player? In my opinion yes but it’s a narrow road that requires another elite scoring option and a willingness from Trae Young to take a step back as a scorer and focus in as a playmaker and off ball threat.

The Atlanta Hawks had Luka Doncic in their hands and traded him for someone they felt better suited the city and their target market. The Hawks front office are happy with Trae Young’s impact off the court as he is an easily relatable player and thus a marketable star player with an aesthetically appealing finesse game. It was the right marketing/brand choice for a team in “that” city to trade for him but it will all be useless if they don’t make the necessary on court moves to see their Franchise Player thrive and win.

 

This article actually refutes what you are saying because no one has stepped up to show they are a 20 point a game scorer yet. 

So if Trae doesn't have that, why are you suggesting he should get off the ball more and defer to worst options. 

I can also find an article that will tell you the earth is flat.  Doesn't make it's fact.

Edited December 24, 2021 by marco102

[Diesel]

2 hours ago, Hawkmoor said:

  Cam is showing that HE can be the Kyrie Irving for the Hawks, a playmaker opposite Trae that demands possessions be run through him instead of Trae. 

I'm not seeing that.   I think Cam is showing that he can be an option in the offense but not a guy who can decision make.  I still think he's more of a black hole than a facilitator.   That's fine as long as we don't get the two confused. 

 

[terrell]

2 hours ago, Hawkmoor said:

I've been critical of Cam's inconsistency in his short career, but I will say this:  I believe that Cam CAN be a number one option if TREATED as a number one option.  Not THE number one option, but a 1b to Trae's 1a.  Cam had to play second fiddle to Zion at Duke.  Now he is playing second, third fiddle to Trae Young.   Thats why his game is HESITANT.  His short basketball career past high school is him being a option instead of being the man.  He went off last night again against primarily the 76er starters. 

The problem is when Trae comes back, the offense is NOT gonna have the same flow as last night.  Trae gonna pound the ball.  The wings are gonna receive passes from Trae ( when he does pass the ball) out of rhythm.  I don't like the ball flowing primarily through Trae because you gonna get either a logo three, a tricky dribble from outside the elbow and try and blow pass the defender, or a lob.  Its not conducive to the wing players getting involved.

Maybe this is why Nate likes Cam in the 2nd unit....But then he proceeds to play Cam with Lou and Gallo... smdh

[Final_quest]

1 hour ago, Hawkmoor said:

Trae shouldn't dominate the ball.  Trae can coexist with Cam being a number one option if Trae WANTED to.  This goes back, AGAIN, to Trae having too much power.  PROOF is him being the point of attack of getting Llyod Pierce fired.  Thats not my opinion, thats recorded fact.  The Hawks GM and coaching staff would have to reign Trae in by changing the offense.

Doesn't make sense to me.  Trae generates the most lobs in the league, has the best floater, and hits from deep. 

Cam shoots at a low percentage, doesn't generate assists, and is turnover prone.  Also, he hasn't been the #1 option on offense since high school.  There is no material reason to change the offense and run it through Cam.  When I say people have a completely unrealistic idea of what Cam is capable of this is pretty much what I'm talking about.  They tried getting Cam going in the pre-season and the results didn't suggest we should run our offense through him.  The only shots Cam is consistently hitting are set shots.  

[marco102]

1 minute ago, Final_quest said:

Doesn't make sense to me.  Trae generates the most lobs in the league, has the best floater, and hits from deep. 

Cam shoots at a low percentage, doesn't generate assists, and is turnover prone.  Also, he hasn't been the #1 option on offense since high school.  There is no material reason to change the offense and run it through Cam.  When I say people have a completely unrealistic idea of what Cam is capable of this is pretty much what I'm talking about.  They tried getting Cam going in the pre-season and the results didn't suggest we should run our offense through him.  The only shots Cam is consistently hitting are set shots.  

You do realize that Hawkmoor will bash Trae at every instance so to say this is what you are talking about is disingenious. None of us who like Cam and Dre have said to  take the ball out of Trae's hands.

[Hawkmoor]

6 minutes ago, Diesel said:

I'm not seeing that.   I think Cam is showing that he can be an option in the offense but not a guy who can decision make.  I still think he's more of a black hole than a facilitator.   That's fine as long as we don't get the two confused. 

 

I'm not talking about Cam bringing the ball down, if thats what you believe I meant.  I meant Cam facilitating after he comes off ball screens and pin downs.  I believe he can facilitate in that manner.

[JayBirdHawk]

48 minutes ago, Hawkmoor said:

 I found a article, which I knew was gonna be easy to do.....

From last season, sure.

 

41 minutes ago, marco102 said:

This article actually refutes what you are saying because no one has stepped up to show they are a 20 point a game scorer yet. 

So if Trae doesn't have that, why are you suggesting he should get off the ball more and defer to worst options. 

I can also find an article that will tell you the earth is flat.  Doesn't make it's fact.

^This I'm waiting for someone, anyone to step up and be that consistent 2nd option that will allow Trae to play more off ball and have more CnS opportunities and relieve him of some of the offensive burden. Until them...let Trae be Trae.