My guy has talked around NBA circles of late

[cam1218]

2 hours ago, thecampster said:

Per Sportsnaut, no!  But neither is Ben Simmons (I believe he's closer to 25-30 range).

 

https://sportsnaut.com/best-nba-players-right-now/

 

50. Jerami Grant, forward, Detroit Pistons

49. Gordon Hayward, forward, Charlotte Hornets

48. Christian Wood, center, Houston Rockets

47. Kyle Lowry, Miami Heat

46. Pascal Siakam, Toronto Raptors

45. Miles Bridges, Charlotte Hornets

44. Shai Gilgeous-Alexander, guard, Oklahoma City Thunder

43. Ben Simmons, Philadelphia 76ers

After the Philadelphia 76ers were eliminated from the playoffs, Ben Simmons trade rumors were rampant after his dreadful performance against the Atlanta Hawks. Quotes from Doc Rivers and Joel Embiid only fueled the former All Star’s desire to be traded from the team leading to a holdout that he eventually ended. There has been a lot of drama surrounding these trade rumors including Simmons reporting to practice only to be kicked out for not participating. Sixers’ GM Daryl Morey has made it known that he will not just trade Ben for anyone saying he wants equitable compensation in return. The chances of Simmons stepping back on the court in a Sixers jersey seems unlikely but not impossible.

42. Karl-Anthony Towns, Minnesota Timberwolves

41. De’Aaron Fox, Sacramento Kings

40. Malcolm Brogdon, guard, Indiana Pacers

39. DeMar DeRozan, Chicago Bulls

38. C.J. McCollum, Portland Trail Blazers

37. Draymond Green, Golden State Warriors

36. Brandon Ingram, New Orleans Pelicans

35. Jrue Holiday, Milwaukee Bucks

34. Russell Westbrook, Los Angeles Lakers

33. Jamal Murray, Denver Nuggets

32. Klay Thompson, Golden State Warriors

31. Zion Williamson, New Orleans Pelicans

30. Kyrie Irving, Brooklyn Nets

29. LaMelo Ball, Charlotte Hornets

28. Rudy Gobert, Utah Jazz

27. Khris Middleton, Milwaukee Bucks

26. Ja Morant, Memphis Grizzlies

25. Nikola Vucevic, Chicago Bulls

24. Domantas Sabonis, Indiana Pacers

23. Jaylen Brown, Boston Celtics

22. Zach LaVine, Chicago Bulls

21. Bam Adebayo, Miami Heat

20. Anthony Davis, Los Angeles Lakers

19. Julius Randle, New York Knicks

18. Donovan Mitchell, Utah Jazz

17. Jayson Tatum, Boston Celtics

16. Damian Lillard, Portland Trail Blazers

15. James Harden, Brooklyn Nets

14. Paul George, Los Angeles Clippers

13. Jimmy Butler, Miami Heat

12. Bradley Beal, Washington Wizards

11. Devin Booker, Phoenix Suns

10. Chris Paul, Phoenix Suns

9. Trae Young, Atlanta Hawks

8. Joel Embiid, Philadelphia 76ers

7. Luka Doncic, Dallas Mavericks

6. LeBron James, Los Angeles Lakers

5. Kawhi Leonard, Los Angeles Clippers

4. Kevin Durant, Brooklyn Nets

3. Giannis Antetokounmpo, Milwaukee Bucks

2. Nikola Jokic, Denver Nuggets

1. Stephen Curry, Golden State Warriors

There are a few head scratchers in here, but this is actually a pretty fair list. It does show we could really use another top 50 talent, albeit I don’t think Simmons should be that guy. 

[JTB]

14 minutes ago, Sothron said:

it makes me lean to waiting to make that trade in the offseason but I don't think Philly can afford to wait. That could mean two ships sailing by in the night in terms of us trading for him.

I’m not asking you this just stating it to think about….

its interesting to me that Schlenk is still among the teams that’s willing to go after Simmons despite the known mental issue.

it’s either cause of Trae or Schlenk is prepared and believes it can be repaired with some doctors here.

[GameTime]

Looks like Kings are keeping Hali and Fox.

[JayBirdHawk]

8 minutes ago, JTB said:

I’m not asking you this just stating it to think about….

its interesting to me that Schlenk is still among the teams that’s willing to go after Simmons despite the known mental issue.

it’s either cause of Trae or Schlenk is prepared and believes it can be repaired with some doctors here.

That's cool if he's offering Gallo plus picks  

7 minutes ago, GameTime said:

Looks like Kings are keeping Hali and Fox.

Sure....so what exactly are they offering?

[Spud2nique]

1 minute ago, JayBirdHawk said:

That's cool if he's offering Gallo plus picks  

Sure....so what exactly are they offering?

No Buddy..  (Hield)..

[NBASupes]

4 hours ago, Sothron said:

Since @AHF told me to continue to please sharing information from the sources as well as encouraging @thecampster and @NBASupes I will say this. This isn't new as in today but something told me about a week ago.

The mental health issues with Simmons are legit. LIke...this isn't a ploy to get paid by his agency. This guy has issues that are being helped with qualified mental health experts. This has scared some teams off Simmons completely. Morey's bargaining has decreased the longer this has dragged on much as everyone here pretty much predicted.

End of source talk. Soth's take:

We are among the handful of teams with a hat in the race for Simmons. 

Update I got is on Simmons and the others 

Teams have a strong idea what Morey wants, it's unlikely a deal is made unless teams can find a home for Harris. Sacramento seems out on Simmons. I am not sure how Sabonis injury impacts his value. 

A lot of movement on the mid player market. There is a strong chance we get a lot of trades this year even when the bigger ones are unlikely. He still believes Morey wants to do a deal now rather than during the draft where everything gets real expensive. 

Edited January 21, 2022 by NBASupes

[JTB]

1 hour ago, NBASupes said:

Update I got is on Simmons and the others 

Teams have a strong idea what Morey wants, it's unlikely a deal is made unless teams can find a home for Harris. Sacramento seems out on Simmons. I am not sure how Sabonis injury impacts his value. 

A lot of movement on the mid player market. There is a strong chance we get a lot of trades this year even when the bigger ones are unlikely. He still believes Morey wants to do a deal now rather than during the draft where everything gets real expensive. 

Is Morey looking for cap relief more so than an established talent for Harris?

[bleachkit]

1 hour ago, NBASupes said:

Update I got is on Simmons and the others 

Teams have a strong idea what Morey wants, it's unlikely a deal is made unless teams can find a home for Harris. Sacramento seems out on Simmons. I am not sure how Sabonis injury impacts his value. 

A lot of movement on the mid player market. There is a strong chance we get a lot of trades this year even when the bigger ones are unlikely. He still believes Morey wants to do a deal now rather than during the draft where everything gets real expensive. 

Sabonis injury isn't that serious. Probably out two weeks or so.

 

[Sothron]

5 hours ago, JTB said:

I’m not asking you this just stating it to think about….

its interesting to me that Schlenk is still among the teams that’s willing to go after Simmons despite the known mental issue.

it’s either cause of Trae or Schlenk is prepared and believes it can be repaired with some doctors here.

I'm not worried about his mental health issues. He's getting professional help for it rather than ignore it. We need to be more accepting of athletes (and people) who get help for something they are going through. I am worried that if we did trade for him how long would it take him to be in game shape. 

[NBASupes]

5 hours ago, JTB said:

Is Morey looking for cap relief more so than an established talent for Harris?

He only wants to trade him if they can land another PF they covet. The issue is Harris contract is awful and teams want assets just to take it.

Edited January 21, 2022 by NBASupes

[JTB]

Schlenk should consider trading Collins for Sabonis.

IF we could land Sabonis he’d give the team a true secondary scoring option (I will forever believe that’s important to have for any team that has desires to win BIG). Sabonis is a lot better offensively than collins not just slightly.

https://www.nba.com/news/rudy-gobert-among-10-players-leading-nba-in-screen-assists?amp=1

…..and Capela may not be a problem pairing with Sabonis  like I originally thought in fact Sabonis with OO would be an awesome fit.

Collins is better defensively than Sabonis but I don’t believe Collins makes enough impact defensively over what Sabonis could bring to this team that we are lacking (True 2nd option). In addition to that, Sabonis is a better rebounder than Collins at the 4 or 5. He actually boxes out. Overall he plays more like a BIG than Collins.

I really like the idea of adding Sabonis for Collins (if that deal works straight up)…then making a move for a guy like Marcus Smart to be our starting 2 to give us more defense between Trae and Sabonis.

Our lineup:

Trae

Smart

Hunter

Sabonis

Capela or OO

 

 

while these are clearly just highlights, I been watching full games from last season of Sabonis and this season. His 42 pts on the Jazz a few weeks back was impressive despite no Gobert. One other thing I noticed that Sabonis has in his game that JC is really lacking is the ability to put the ball on the floor and make a move in addition to posting up. Also he’s a very good passer for his position.

[thecampster]

So I saw this snippet yesterday, giggled a bit and although the other thread is closed, thought it appropriate to share and to what level of credence anyone should accept any rumor. Two competing stories on the front page of Yahoo News. One saying the Kings are interested, one saying the Kings are not on the same trade. 1 from HoopsHype, 1 from NBC.

 

[kg01]

3 hours ago, JTB said:

Schlenk should consider trading Collins for Sabonis.

IF we could land Sabonis he’d give the team a true secondary scoring option (I will forever believe that’s important to have for any team that has desires to win BIG). Sabonis is a lot better offensively than collins not just slightly.

https://www.nba.com/news/rudy-gobert-among-10-players-leading-nba-in-screen-assists?amp=1

…..and Capela may not be a problem pairing with Sabonis  like I originally thought in fact Sabonis with OO would be an awesome fit.

Collins is better defensively than Sabonis but I don’t believe Collins makes enough impact defensively over what Sabonis could bring to this team that we are lacking (True 2nd option). In addition to that, Sabonis is a better rebounder than Collins at the 4 or 5. He actually boxes out. Overall he plays more like a BIG than Collins.

I really like the idea of adding Sabonis for Collins (if that deal works straight up)…then making a move for a guy like Marcus Smart to be our starting 2 to give us more defense between Trae and Sabonis.

Our lineup:

Trae

Smart

Hunter

Sabonis

Capela or OO

 

 

while these are clearly just highlights, I been watching full games from last season of Sabonis and this season. His 42 pts on the Jazz a few weeks back was impressive despite no Gobert. One other thing I noticed that Sabonis has in his game that JC is really lacking is the ability to put the ball on the floor and make a move in addition to posting up. Also he’s a very good passer for his position.

All due respect .. which is what you say before saying something you know is disrespectful  ...

I said before and I'll repeat it here, ya'll overrate Sabonis/Turner.

He's marginally better than Collins, at best.  To be fair to you, I'll say he appears to be better but it's only because of the position/role he plays for IND.

And I don't see how a Sabonis/Capela pairing works on any level.

JMHO - which is what you say to make people think you're humble knowing full well you're high on your own sh*t. 

[REHawksFan]

Snippet from today's part of the Athletic article between Chris and Sam Vecenie....

 

Vecenie: I think I’m actually more interested in the Simmons-Hawks idea than most. How aggressively I’d pursue it would be dependent on a couple of factors. First, Atlanta would need to talk to Simmons’ representation ahead of time and get a feel for what his reaction would be to becoming a half-court, screen-and-roll distributor out of short-rolls next to Trae Young, a la the Draymond Green to Young’s Stephen Curry. Simmons and Green are both represented by Klutch, and I would hope those connections could lead to the Australian star recognizing that this is how to best utilize his skill set long term. But I’d want to know ahead of time how amenable Simmons is to such a role. If the answer is that Simmons isn’t interested in this role, it would be a non-starter for me.

Second, it would come down to price point, because I would only want Simmons on Atlanta if the Hawks could keep some of the shooting they already have on the roster around him. The whole idea would be creating something like Warriors Southeast, something Travis Schlenk will be very familiar with from his time in the Bay. Mixing Young with Simmons in ball screens while maintaining some of the shooting around them that the team already possesses in Huerter and Hunter potentially could be lethal, offensively. That four-player core, I think, would actually work to accentuate the skills that Young and Simmons have. Simmons and his ability to make plays out of four-on-threes would really penalize teams for blitzing Young, something Milwaukee did often in the Eastern Conference finals series last year. It’d open up even more space for Young.

It would create problems with Clint Capela, and I’d be in favor of the team moving him in the future (once he becomes tradable) and trying to find a center who can space the floor. But while he’s on the roster, there are ways to utilize him. They could use him in the dunker spot, similar to how Golden State uses Kevon Looney as a release valve for Green out of short rolls. Simmons is an even bigger downhill threat as a finisher at the rim in these settings, meaning Capela’s man would probably be forced to commit to Simmons’ drives more than what we see in Golden State. The key there would obviously be spacing, which is why keeping guys like Hunter and Huerter is critical. Simmons is also one of the best 3-point kickout passers in the league and one of the best transition drivers in the league, so he’d find open shooters. But the key is to have options in the playoffs so the team doesn’t bog down around Simmons. The best way to do that is with actual guard play and floor spacing. And of course, Simmons is one of the five best defensive players in the league, so getting him to help out Young would be huge.

Kirschner: I think one thing that hasn’t been mentioned much when it comes to the Hawks pursuing star-level talent is most of them want to be the No. 1 option on their teams and get their points. Young is most certainly going to be the No. 1 option in Atlanta for as long as he’s on the Hawks, and he should be. Few players can create for themselves and others as well as he can. My guess is whomever the Hawks pursue would have to be fine being a second option, or someone who would be OK with sharing duties with Young.

That’s part of the reason I think Simmons would be great for the Hawks. He doesn’t have to score to be elite at what he does, and that’s putting opposing players in hell all night with his smothering perimeter defense. You are right, though, that this isn’t a trade they can make if Simmons wouldn’t be comfortable playing in mostly an off-ball role.

What do you think a fair price point should be for the Hawks?

Vecenie: What would the price be? I have to imagine Collins would be involved. I’d hate giving him up, but he is the closest thing Philly could sell as being the “star” that Daryl Morey wants, per all of the reports on the Simmons situation throughout the year. Also, he’s a great fit with Joel Embiid, in my opinion. Embiid doesn’t roll a ton toward the rim, instead posting and mid-posting as an initiator. If they could find a good guard to play with Collins, his ability to roll hard to the rim and knock down shots from distance, I think, would really open up a lot for Embiid. The Tobias Harris deal dump would have to be involved, which then would necessitate including Danilo Gallinari’s expiring deal.

The question for me, simply, would be one of leverage, and there are some fascinating leverage dynamics involved in such a deal. Morey would probably enter the negotiations asking for Collins, Gallinari, Hunter and Huerter plus a bunch of picks for Simmons and Harris, because that’s how he operates. He wants everything. Schlenk would turn that down, and then it would become a match of who blinks first as deals get bandied about. Neither Schlenk nor Morey is in a particularly advantageous position, in my view. The Hawks have been bad and need to shake things up. Morey has continued to posture that he doesn’t need to move Simmons, but it would be a fairly egregious decision to waste what has been the most dominant season of Embiid’s career thus far. I’d love to be a fly on the wall for those calls as those dynamics evolve.

A deal involving Collins, Bogdanovic (who fits as a shot-creating shooter with a real playoff track record going back to his time in Europe) and Gallinari for Simmons and Harris as the main financial cogs works financially, gives the Sixers shooting and gives them long-term cap relief by dumping Harris’ money essentially for an expiring deal in Gallinari. The Sixers would certainly want assets on top of that, still. But what is enough? Is it a situation where the Sixers ask for Hunter and picks? Okongwu and picks to ship to a third team? Huerter actually would be on the table, too. Because he signed a contract extension, he is subject to a poison-pill provision if he is traded before it kicks in that makes him tough to trade. However, because there is so much money involved in this deal, the margins within the poison pill become much more manageable logistically.

After the two sides go back and forth haggling, the deal that makes the most sense to me is Collins, Bogdanovic, Gallinari, Jalen Johnson, the Hornets’ first-round pick that the team just acquired in the Reddish deal and another first-rounder for Simmons and Harris. From Philly’s perspective, that’s essentially Collins, Bogdanovic, three first-round picks (Johnson was drafted 20th overall this past draft) and substantial long-term salary relief for Simmons. It keeps them in play for star trades long term, as long as Tyrese Maxey keeps developing.

They could also forward the Gallinari deal to a third team along with a pick for another guard. Maybe Gallinari and that Hornets first to Houston for Eric Gordon? Philly would then have Gordon, Maxey, Seth Curry, Bogdanovic, Danny Green, Matisse Thybulle, Georges Niang and Collins, plus additional long-term assets. That’s a lot of shooting and defense, plus more backcourt half-court offensive playmaking than Philadelphia has had since Jimmy Butler left. Those eight plus Embiid might be enough to make a legit run in the East this year with how dominant Embiid has been recently, while also giving the team future flexibility.

Is Philadelphia really going to do better than that? Maybe. I think it’s possible the team could prefer a Kings offer if Sacramento is willing to include Tyrese Haliburton. But if they aren’t, I’m not sure I see a better deal on the board unless Philly waits until the offseason.

For the Hawks, this deal is a sufficient shake-up that, in my view, gives them much more long-term upside than what they’ve had previously. Additionally, it maintains some of their younger assets and doesn’t take them out of the game if another star comes available.

So long story short, yes, I’m interested in Simmons at the right price for Atlanta and think it would be a worthwhile move.

Kirschner: For those keeping track, if that was the deal, a potential Hawks starting lineup could be: Young, Huerter, Hunter, Simmons and Capela. You’d have three guys in the backcourt who could shoot and handle the ball and four good defenders on the floor. I think it’s a lineup that could certainly work. Do I think they could win a title this season? Probably not, but you’d have the offseason to possibly make other tweaks to the roster, especially if the Simmons-Capela frontcourt is untenable. And, as you mentioned, it does keep the possibility alive of making another big-swing move and creating a big three of Young, Simmons and TBD player. Having a top-five offensive player and a top-five defensive player would be a good start to building a true contender.

 

As others have said previously, not sure the Hawks go for taking on Harris in the deal as well.  Although I do like the idea of not giving up Dre or OO.  My preference for a Simmons deal is more scaled back and would be JC / Bogie for Simmons / Green.  Something like that.  Doubt Philly goes for it though. 

[Sothron]

Losing JC would hurt but Ben coming in for the Green role would be  a step up on defense and having a secondary playmaker would help the rest of the offense. Collins is the closest thing to a top 40 player which I think he is for Philly to have. He's on a reasonable deal and locked up long term. He really would be a great fit next to Embiid for them. 

[JTB]

1 hour ago, REHawksFan said:

Snippet from today's part of the Athletic article between Chris and Sam Vecenie....

 

Vecenie: I think I’m actually more interested in the Simmons-Hawks idea than most. How aggressively I’d pursue it would be dependent on a couple of factors. First, Atlanta would need to talk to Simmons’ representation ahead of time and get a feel for what his reaction would be to becoming a half-court, screen-and-roll distributor out of short-rolls next to Trae Young, a la the Draymond Green to Young’s Stephen Curry. Simmons and Green are both represented by Klutch, and I would hope those connections could lead to the Australian star recognizing that this is how to best utilize his skill set long term. But I’d want to know ahead of time how amenable Simmons is to such a role. If the answer is that Simmons isn’t interested in this role, it would be a non-starter for me.

Second, it would come down to price point, because I would only want Simmons on Atlanta if the Hawks could keep some of the shooting they already have on the roster around him. The whole idea would be creating something like Warriors Southeast, something Travis Schlenk will be very familiar with from his time in the Bay. Mixing Young with Simmons in ball screens while maintaining some of the shooting around them that the team already possesses in Huerter and Hunter potentially could be lethal, offensively. That four-player core, I think, would actually work to accentuate the skills that Young and Simmons have. Simmons and his ability to make plays out of four-on-threes would really penalize teams for blitzing Young, something Milwaukee did often in the Eastern Conference finals series last year. It’d open up even more space for Young.

It would create problems with Clint Capela, and I’d be in favor of the team moving him in the future (once he becomes tradable) and trying to find a center who can space the floor. But while he’s on the roster, there are ways to utilize him. They could use him in the dunker spot, similar to how Golden State uses Kevon Looney as a release valve for Green out of short rolls. Simmons is an even bigger downhill threat as a finisher at the rim in these settings, meaning Capela’s man would probably be forced to commit to Simmons’ drives more than what we see in Golden State. The key there would obviously be spacing, which is why keeping guys like Hunter and Huerter is critical. Simmons is also one of the best 3-point kickout passers in the league and one of the best transition drivers in the league, so he’d find open shooters. But the key is to have options in the playoffs so the team doesn’t bog down around Simmons. The best way to do that is with actual guard play and floor spacing. And of course, Simmons is one of the five best defensive players in the league, so getting him to help out Young would be huge.

Kirschner: I think one thing that hasn’t been mentioned much when it comes to the Hawks pursuing star-level talent is most of them want to be the No. 1 option on their teams and get their points. Young is most certainly going to be the No. 1 option in Atlanta for as long as he’s on the Hawks, and he should be. Few players can create for themselves and others as well as he can. My guess is whomever the Hawks pursue would have to be fine being a second option, or someone who would be OK with sharing duties with Young.

That’s part of the reason I think Simmons would be great for the Hawks. He doesn’t have to score to be elite at what he does, and that’s putting opposing players in hell all night with his smothering perimeter defense. You are right, though, that this isn’t a trade they can make if Simmons wouldn’t be comfortable playing in mostly an off-ball role.

What do you think a fair price point should be for the Hawks?

Vecenie: What would the price be? I have to imagine Collins would be involved. I’d hate giving him up, but he is the closest thing Philly could sell as being the “star” that Daryl Morey wants, per all of the reports on the Simmons situation throughout the year. Also, he’s a great fit with Joel Embiid, in my opinion. Embiid doesn’t roll a ton toward the rim, instead posting and mid-posting as an initiator. If they could find a good guard to play with Collins, his ability to roll hard to the rim and knock down shots from distance, I think, would really open up a lot for Embiid. The Tobias Harris deal dump would have to be involved, which then would necessitate including Danilo Gallinari’s expiring deal.

The question for me, simply, would be one of leverage, and there are some fascinating leverage dynamics involved in such a deal. Morey would probably enter the negotiations asking for Collins, Gallinari, Hunter and Huerter plus a bunch of picks for Simmons and Harris, because that’s how he operates. He wants everything. Schlenk would turn that down, and then it would become a match of who blinks first as deals get bandied about. Neither Schlenk nor Morey is in a particularly advantageous position, in my view. The Hawks have been bad and need to shake things up. Morey has continued to posture that he doesn’t need to move Simmons, but it would be a fairly egregious decision to waste what has been the most dominant season of Embiid’s career thus far. I’d love to be a fly on the wall for those calls as those dynamics evolve.

A deal involving Collins, Bogdanovic (who fits as a shot-creating shooter with a real playoff track record going back to his time in Europe) and Gallinari for Simmons and Harris as the main financial cogs works financially, gives the Sixers shooting and gives them long-term cap relief by dumping Harris’ money essentially for an expiring deal in Gallinari. The Sixers would certainly want assets on top of that, still. But what is enough? Is it a situation where the Sixers ask for Hunter and picks? Okongwu and picks to ship to a third team? Huerter actually would be on the table, too. Because he signed a contract extension, he is subject to a poison-pill provision if he is traded before it kicks in that makes him tough to trade. However, because there is so much money involved in this deal, the margins within the poison pill become much more manageable logistically.

After the two sides go back and forth haggling, the deal that makes the most sense to me is Collins, Bogdanovic, Gallinari, Jalen Johnson, the Hornets’ first-round pick that the team just acquired in the Reddish deal and another first-rounder for Simmons and Harris. From Philly’s perspective, that’s essentially Collins, Bogdanovic, three first-round picks (Johnson was drafted 20th overall this past draft) and substantial long-term salary relief for Simmons. It keeps them in play for star trades long term, as long as Tyrese Maxey keeps developing.

They could also forward the Gallinari deal to a third team along with a pick for another guard. Maybe Gallinari and that Hornets first to Houston for Eric Gordon? Philly would then have Gordon, Maxey, Seth Curry, Bogdanovic, Danny Green, Matisse Thybulle, Georges Niang and Collins, plus additional long-term assets. That’s a lot of shooting and defense, plus more backcourt half-court offensive playmaking than Philadelphia has had since Jimmy Butler left. Those eight plus Embiid might be enough to make a legit run in the East this year with how dominant Embiid has been recently, while also giving the team future flexibility.

Is Philadelphia really going to do better than that? Maybe. I think it’s possible the team could prefer a Kings offer if Sacramento is willing to include Tyrese Haliburton. But if they aren’t, I’m not sure I see a better deal on the board unless Philly waits until the offseason.

For the Hawks, this deal is a sufficient shake-up that, in my view, gives them much more long-term upside than what they’ve had previously. Additionally, it maintains some of their younger assets and doesn’t take them out of the game if another star comes available.

So long story short, yes, I’m interested in Simmons at the right price for Atlanta and think it would be a worthwhile move.

Kirschner: For those keeping track, if that was the deal, a potential Hawks starting lineup could be: Young, Huerter, Hunter, Simmons and Capela. You’d have three guys in the backcourt who could shoot and handle the ball and four good defenders on the floor. I think it’s a lineup that could certainly work. Do I think they could win a title this season? Probably not, but you’d have the offseason to possibly make other tweaks to the roster, especially if the Simmons-Capela frontcourt is untenable. And, as you mentioned, it does keep the possibility alive of making another big-swing move and creating a big three of Young, Simmons and TBD player. Having a top-five offensive player and a top-five defensive player would be a good start to building a true contender.

 

As others have said previously, not sure the Hawks go for taking on Harris in the deal as well.  Although I do like the idea of not giving up Dre or OO.  My preference for a Simmons deal is more scaled back and would be JC / Bogie for Simmons / Green.  Something like that.  Doubt Philly goes for it though. 

Thanks I was just getting ready to open the app to read this.

I truly believe Simmons is what Schlenk wants to pair with Trae. I don’t think it’s just a Trae thing.

Vecenie hit it on the money…selling Simmons as Traes type of Draymond Green maybe better is the key here and I’m sure that’s how schlenk is looking at this. I also agree that Simmons not caring about scoring plays great with Trae. Simmons focus is more on overall….it’s a perfect fit.

[Sothron]

3 hours ago, thecampster said:

So I saw this snippet yesterday, giggled a bit and although the other thread is closed, thought it appropriate to share and to what level of credence anyone should accept any rumor. Two competing stories on the front page of Yahoo News. One saying the Kings are interested, one saying the Kings are not on the same trade. 1 from HoopsHype, 1 from NBC.

 

I wonder if those reporters are being called liars and trying to be censored. Hmm.

[marco102]

2 hours ago, REHawksFan said:

Snippet from today's part of the Athletic article between Chris and Sam Vecenie....

 

Vecenie: I think I’m actually more interested in the Simmons-Hawks idea than most. How aggressively I’d pursue it would be dependent on a couple of factors. First, Atlanta would need to talk to Simmons’ representation ahead of time and get a feel for what his reaction would be to becoming a half-court, screen-and-roll distributor out of short-rolls next to Trae Young, a la the Draymond Green to Young’s Stephen Curry. Simmons and Green are both represented by Klutch, and I would hope those connections could lead to the Australian star recognizing that this is how to best utilize his skill set long term. But I’d want to know ahead of time how amenable Simmons is to such a role. If the answer is that Simmons isn’t interested in this role, it would be a non-starter for me.

Second, it would come down to price point, because I would only want Simmons on Atlanta if the Hawks could keep some of the shooting they already have on the roster around him. The whole idea would be creating something like Warriors Southeast, something Travis Schlenk will be very familiar with from his time in the Bay. Mixing Young with Simmons in ball screens while maintaining some of the shooting around them that the team already possesses in Huerter and Hunter potentially could be lethal, offensively. That four-player core, I think, would actually work to accentuate the skills that Young and Simmons have. Simmons and his ability to make plays out of four-on-threes would really penalize teams for blitzing Young, something Milwaukee did often in the Eastern Conference finals series last year. It’d open up even more space for Young.

It would create problems with Clint Capela, and I’d be in favor of the team moving him in the future (once he becomes tradable) and trying to find a center who can space the floor. But while he’s on the roster, there are ways to utilize him. They could use him in the dunker spot, similar to how Golden State uses Kevon Looney as a release valve for Green out of short rolls. Simmons is an even bigger downhill threat as a finisher at the rim in these settings, meaning Capela’s man would probably be forced to commit to Simmons’ drives more than what we see in Golden State. The key there would obviously be spacing, which is why keeping guys like Hunter and Huerter is critical. Simmons is also one of the best 3-point kickout passers in the league and one of the best transition drivers in the league, so he’d find open shooters. But the key is to have options in the playoffs so the team doesn’t bog down around Simmons. The best way to do that is with actual guard play and floor spacing. And of course, Simmons is one of the five best defensive players in the league, so getting him to help out Young would be huge.

Kirschner: I think one thing that hasn’t been mentioned much when it comes to the Hawks pursuing star-level talent is most of them want to be the No. 1 option on their teams and get their points. Young is most certainly going to be the No. 1 option in Atlanta for as long as he’s on the Hawks, and he should be. Few players can create for themselves and others as well as he can. My guess is whomever the Hawks pursue would have to be fine being a second option, or someone who would be OK with sharing duties with Young.

That’s part of the reason I think Simmons would be great for the Hawks. He doesn’t have to score to be elite at what he does, and that’s putting opposing players in hell all night with his smothering perimeter defense. You are right, though, that this isn’t a trade they can make if Simmons wouldn’t be comfortable playing in mostly an off-ball role.

What do you think a fair price point should be for the Hawks?

Vecenie: What would the price be? I have to imagine Collins would be involved. I’d hate giving him up, but he is the closest thing Philly could sell as being the “star” that Daryl Morey wants, per all of the reports on the Simmons situation throughout the year. Also, he’s a great fit with Joel Embiid, in my opinion. Embiid doesn’t roll a ton toward the rim, instead posting and mid-posting as an initiator. If they could find a good guard to play with Collins, his ability to roll hard to the rim and knock down shots from distance, I think, would really open up a lot for Embiid. The Tobias Harris deal dump would have to be involved, which then would necessitate including Danilo Gallinari’s expiring deal.

The question for me, simply, would be one of leverage, and there are some fascinating leverage dynamics involved in such a deal. Morey would probably enter the negotiations asking for Collins, Gallinari, Hunter and Huerter plus a bunch of picks for Simmons and Harris, because that’s how he operates. He wants everything. Schlenk would turn that down, and then it would become a match of who blinks first as deals get bandied about. Neither Schlenk nor Morey is in a particularly advantageous position, in my view. The Hawks have been bad and need to shake things up. Morey has continued to posture that he doesn’t need to move Simmons, but it would be a fairly egregious decision to waste what has been the most dominant season of Embiid’s career thus far. I’d love to be a fly on the wall for those calls as those dynamics evolve.

A deal involving Collins, Bogdanovic (who fits as a shot-creating shooter with a real playoff track record going back to his time in Europe) and Gallinari for Simmons and Harris as the main financial cogs works financially, gives the Sixers shooting and gives them long-term cap relief by dumping Harris’ money essentially for an expiring deal in Gallinari. The Sixers would certainly want assets on top of that, still. But what is enough? Is it a situation where the Sixers ask for Hunter and picks? Okongwu and picks to ship to a third team? Huerter actually would be on the table, too. Because he signed a contract extension, he is subject to a poison-pill provision if he is traded before it kicks in that makes him tough to trade. However, because there is so much money involved in this deal, the margins within the poison pill become much more manageable logistically.

After the two sides go back and forth haggling, the deal that makes the most sense to me is Collins, Bogdanovic, Gallinari, Jalen Johnson, the Hornets’ first-round pick that the team just acquired in the Reddish deal and another first-rounder for Simmons and Harris. From Philly’s perspective, that’s essentially Collins, Bogdanovic, three first-round picks (Johnson was drafted 20th overall this past draft) and substantial long-term salary relief for Simmons. It keeps them in play for star trades long term, as long as Tyrese Maxey keeps developing.

They could also forward the Gallinari deal to a third team along with a pick for another guard. Maybe Gallinari and that Hornets first to Houston for Eric Gordon? Philly would then have Gordon, Maxey, Seth Curry, Bogdanovic, Danny Green, Matisse Thybulle, Georges Niang and Collins, plus additional long-term assets. That’s a lot of shooting and defense, plus more backcourt half-court offensive playmaking than Philadelphia has had since Jimmy Butler left. Those eight plus Embiid might be enough to make a legit run in the East this year with how dominant Embiid has been recently, while also giving the team future flexibility.

Is Philadelphia really going to do better than that? Maybe. I think it’s possible the team could prefer a Kings offer if Sacramento is willing to include Tyrese Haliburton. But if they aren’t, I’m not sure I see a better deal on the board unless Philly waits until the offseason.

For the Hawks, this deal is a sufficient shake-up that, in my view, gives them much more long-term upside than what they’ve had previously. Additionally, it maintains some of their younger assets and doesn’t take them out of the game if another star comes available.

So long story short, yes, I’m interested in Simmons at the right price for Atlanta and think it would be a worthwhile move.

Kirschner: For those keeping track, if that was the deal, a potential Hawks starting lineup could be: Young, Huerter, Hunter, Simmons and Capela. You’d have three guys in the backcourt who could shoot and handle the ball and four good defenders on the floor. I think it’s a lineup that could certainly work. Do I think they could win a title this season? Probably not, but you’d have the offseason to possibly make other tweaks to the roster, especially if the Simmons-Capela frontcourt is untenable. And, as you mentioned, it does keep the possibility alive of making another big-swing move and creating a big three of Young, Simmons and TBD player. Having a top-five offensive player and a top-five defensive player would be a good start to building a true contender.

 

As others have said previously, not sure the Hawks go for taking on Harris in the deal as well.  Although I do like the idea of not giving up Dre or OO.  My preference for a Simmons deal is more scaled back and would be JC / Bogie for Simmons / Green.  Something like that.  Doubt Philly goes for it though. 

In the deal proposed, Harris would be our backup powerforward making $35+ million a year? 

I just can't take on that contract AND give up all those picks and Jalen Johnson.  Philly needs to pay someone draft capital to take that contract on.  

[Sothron]

Just now, marco102 said:

In the deal proposed, Harris would be our backup powerforward making $35+ million a year? 

I just can't take on that contract AND give up all those picks and Jalen Johnson.  Philly needs to pay someone draft capital to take that contract on.  

Yeah, I saw that and I'm like I can't see us paying the tax. They would need to move Harris to another team like OKC that can absorb his salary.

[kg01]

17 minutes ago, Sothron said:

I wonder if those reporters are being called liars and trying to be censored. Hmm.

Kinda fascinating being on this end of the weird mod witch hunt.

Is this how y'all felt back when we were .... ah, nevermind I hear the ice under me crackin' .