My guy has talked around NBA circles of late

[AHF]

10 minutes ago, thecampster said:

On your statement about reasonable accommodation, I think he was shooting for a trade as the accommodation. That's on Philly for not realizing it wasn't possible to reconcile on Ben's terms.

I think this is an interesting topic for the binding nature of player contracts. There's no way you could really allow for disagreement = trade me to be the norm or to void a player contract at their request. It would be a cluster hump in player movement, super team assembly. But the "how teams treat players", especially in how public their personalities (and by extension the public nature of the disagreements) are, is a topic that should be addressable in the next CBA.  Player grievances from teams airing things in the media.

If I was Ben, I could make a public opinion case (not legal) that the team disparaged him publicly, smeared him. I don't feel the players qualify as an extension of the team (coworkers) but the coach would be as he holds power over the player and I think people are sensitive to teams/owners smearing players. Obviously based on recent events the Hawks are sensitive to it (kudos to us).

That would be a fascinating case to see on reasonable accommodation because that has never been a recognized accommodation under the ADA in any form of workplace.  (I.e., let me work for someone else and never work for you again).  Runs counter to the usual goals of reasonable accommodation which is to force an employer to modify their workplace to permit someone to perform the essential functions of their job.

Not sure how the CBA could address the "airing things in the media" angle because it would have to be a two-way street and I can't imagine players giving up their right to say something bad about their team.  

I agree with you that he could make a public opinion case about the team being negative to him.  Definitely wouldn't want to make it a legal case because a defense to disparagement is the truth of the statement and that would get ugly.  We'd probably see the picture of him passing out rather than dunking on Trae as an exhibit along with all of those 4th quarters where he simply refused to shoot the ball even once.  While I feel 100% that Doc shouldn't have publicly said he isn't sure you can win a championship with Simmons as your PG, I'm not sure that would be incorrect.  (Obviously, Doc's opinion can't be defamation since that needs to be a statement of fact.)

7 minutes ago, thecampster said:

If I were Ben and money were the motivating factor, I would 100% be angling for one of the LA teams.  That 19 mil he's lost would get swallowed up quick.

Agree from Ben's perspective.  Hard to come up with an LA trade that would work unless the Clippers were willing to deal George for Simmons as the core of the deal.

[macdaddy]

What a mess.  I'd prefer to stay out of it.   I mean we could meet the sixers in the playoffs.  Will even be able to play in Philly with all the negative attention?

[AHF]

1 minute ago, macdaddy said:

What a mess.  I'd prefer to stay out of it.   I mean we could meet the sixers in the playoffs.  Will even be able to play in Philly with all the negative attention?

Depends on a lot of unclear answers right now.  Could certainly see a situation where he just feels betrayed and is trying to force a trade and then is eager to play Philly and exact his revenge.  Could certainly see a situation where he is legitimatelly overcome with stress due to mental health issues and he can't handle this.  And can see 100 other scenarios with varied outcomes.  TS would need to do his due diligence for sure.

[Atlantaholic]

Ben Simmons is paying the Sixers every game he doesn't play. Meanwhile they are half a game out of first place. Why are they in a big urgency to get rid of him again?

[Watchman]

2 minutes ago, AHF said:

Depends on a lot of unclear answers right now.  Could certainly see a situation where he just feels betrayed and is trying to force a trade and then is eager to play Philly and exact his revenge.  Could certainly see a situation where he is legitimatelly overcome with stress due to mental health issues and he can't handle this.  And can see 100 other scenarios with varied outcomes.  TS would need to do his due diligence for sure.

Just wait until Simmons has a bad game here, assuming we gave up Collins and three draft picks, and take on Harris's bad contract.  He just thought Embiid was bad...

[bleachkit]

I don't care about Ben Simmons drama he said/he said. Bottom line, does he want to play basketball again? Is going to be committed to the team and to whatever his role is? 

[macdaddy]

17 minutes ago, Atlantaholic said:

Ben Simmons is paying the Sixers every game he doesn't play. Meanwhile they are half a game out of first place. Why are they in a big urgency to get rid of him again?

How many teams lose their supposed 2nd best player who's an all star and it's not really noticeable on the court?  The dude got mvp votes last year. 

[AHF]

1 minute ago, macdaddy said:

How many teams lose their supposed 2nd best player who's an all star and it's not really noticeable on the court?  The dude got mvp votes last year. 

The Bulls went 55-27 without Michael Jordan.  That 67% win rate would put them #1 in the East this season by a significant margin.  Doesn't mean Jordan wasn't the best player in the league and worthy of MVP votes.  

I'm not concluding Ben is worthless because Philly is still doing well, especially considering Embiid has always been the best player on that roster and is enjoying an unusually healthy year.

12 minutes ago, bleachkit said:

I don't care about Ben Simmons drama he said/he said. Bottom line, does he want to play basketball again? Is going to be committed to the team and to whatever his role is? 

This is where my head is at.  

[REHawksFan]

7 minutes ago, macdaddy said:

How many teams lose their supposed 2nd best player who's an all star and it's not really noticeable on the court?  The dude got mvp votes last year. 

How many teams have a Tyrese Maxey as a rookie the year before their MVP-vote getting, All NBA PG decides to sit out?  They are ultra fortunate they have Maxey to who looks to be a very very good young player.  He's filled in beautifully for them. 

And Ben Simmons is still an MVP-vote getting, All NBA PG.  Both are true. 

Edited February 1, 2022 by REHawksFan

[macdaddy]

2 minutes ago, AHF said:

I'm not concluding Ben is worthless because Philly is still doing well

No one said he was worthless but maybe it points to him being overrated?

He hasn't been able to raise the sixers with Embiid and their exceptional team to high levels.   Is he going to do it with Trae and the Hawks?

Everyone says we need his D but Hawks erased 20+ point second half playoff deficits twice against him and a team that is really really good even without him.  

Everyone says we need his playmaking but we are 1st or 2nd highest rated offense in the league already.  

It's just starting to feel like everyone wants him because he's the best player available right this second not because we actually need him or he fits well.  Way too many red flags for me.   I could be 100% wrong on this obviously. 

[marco102]

2 hours ago, JayBirdHawk said:

 

Ben Simmons has lost over $19 million in fines this season

Simmons has lost over $19 million in fines since the season began (each missed game costs him $360,000). He hasn’t cleared a paycheck since the $8.25 million (25% of his $33 million salary) that was due to him Oct. 1. Every two weeks the team sends a notice with an explanation of all the fines he has accumulated for failing to render services, instead of a $1.375 million paycheck. By the end of the season, if he does not play for the Sixers or any other team, Simmons could lose another $12 million. It is a staggering amount of money. Everyone involved assumes this issue will eventually be settled in arbitration. But those close to Simmons, who has earned upward of $60 million over his career, insist his decision to demand a trade and then not to play until he is traded has never been financially motivated. He wants a fresh start, away from a franchise he doesn’t feel comfortable playing for anymore.

 

– via Ramona Shelburne @ ESPN

I'm sorry, but I'd just have to be lockerroom cancer until they found somewhere for me to be..ain't now way I'd lose that much money.  I probably wouldn't even make that in a lifetime. 

[Atlantaholic]

Fascinating so many posters are lining up to get a guy that is paying 30 million dollars not to play basketball. 

[AHF]

34 minutes ago, marco102 said:

I'm sorry, but I'd just have to be lockerroom cancer until they found somewhere for me to be..ain't now way I'd lose that much money.  I probably wouldn't even make that in a lifetime. 

I.e., the James Harden route, lol.  Funny that Morey is desperate to get back to the guy who sandbagged it for Houston to get himself out.

[bird_dirt]

Maybe Simmons has us all fooled and what he's really doing is tanking his trade value so low that whoever ends up with him in the end won't be asset depleted.

Chess man, thinking 4 steps ahead.

[thecampster]

2 hours ago, AHF said:

That would be a fascinating case to see on reasonable accommodation because that has never been a recognized accommodation under the ADA in any form of workplace.  (I.e., let me work for someone else and never work for you again).  Runs counter to the usual goals of reasonable accommodation which is to force an employer to modify their workplace to permit someone to perform the essential functions of their job.

Not sure how the CBA could address the "airing things in the media" angle because it would have to be a two-way street and I can't imagine players giving up their right to say something bad about their team.  

I agree with you that he could make a public opinion case about the team being negative to him.  Definitely wouldn't want to make it a legal case because a defense to disparagement is the truth of the statement and that would get ugly.  We'd probably see the picture of him passing out rather than dunking on Trae as an exhibit along with all of those 4th quarters where he simply refused to shoot the ball even once.  While I feel 100% that Doc shouldn't have publicly said he isn't sure you can win a championship with Simmons as your PG, I'm not sure that would be incorrect.  (Obviously, Doc's opinion can't be defamation since that needs to be a statement of fact.)

Agree from Ben's perspective.  Hard to come up with an LA trade that would work unless the Clippers were willing to deal George for Simmons as the core of the deal.

Well let's thought experiment that publicly. I'm under the impression that a no compete agreement isn't enforceable in most states. 1. Can you confirm, speak on that?  

The closest thing to an NBA contract I can think of is a no compete clause. Comparing an NBA gig to a normal job for purposes of ADA doesn't seem practical to me since an NBA contract amounts to rights ownership. CEOs sign similar agreements but can be restricted from working for a competitor for x time.  2. Are there any conditions where that agreement could be invalidated by the CEO? (IE...company disparaged him publicly etc...)

[Spud2nique]

5 hours ago, kg01 said:

Embrace it.  I'm not 50 but I am all those commercials.

No cussin', no fussin' ....

What’s wrong with telling the manager Brian in produce was very helpful?  Is that wrong? I been doin that for years.

[Diesel]

7 hours ago, thecampster said:

He was in town, spends time out there, didn't come to check in on Ben. Its really standard procedure as the coaching staff does due diligence in the off-season.  That sounds way worse that it is.  Its very similar to the monthly 1v1's I have with my leadership or your goals conversations you have with your supervisor a few times a year.

These guys pretty much all work out in pods around the country and coaches, trainers check in on them from time to time. What Ben is saying is Doc came to town, was doing his rounds and checked in on others but not him.

He also said that Doc called and texted him and he didn't answer. 

How hard is it to respond to a text.   Especially a text from your new HC?

Let's understand this fully... You're getting paid 33 MILLION dollars this year and you can't call or text your boss back in the offseason?

Camp.. if you were making 33 million dollars and your supervisor texted you for whatever reason, you're not going to return his text?

This is my problem.  I smell Primadonna.   I believe he's going to want to come to this team and be the primadonna because his contract says he makes a lot.   We don't have primadonnas..  NOT Even Trae.  We're Blue Collar.  Trae out here taking charges... There's nothing pretty or fancy about what we do.

[Diesel]

7 hours ago, thecampster said:

Riddle me this. Ben holds out and is traded to the NY, LA, CHI, DAL, ATL, MIA, markets.  Over the course of the next 10 years, how much more money will he make in endorsements, branding if in one of those markets (especially if he wins a title or 2)?

His agent is probably pushing a great deal of this.  Marketing opportunities are low in Philly despite its size.  Check this link and look at Philly based on Metro Population.

https://hoop-social.com/nba-team-market-size-rankings/

I don't think he's claiming ADA protection or they wouldn't be fining him.

Only thing is that when Sacramento became a possibility, Ben's camp said that he would play for the Kings because he wants to be on the West Coast. 

[thecampster]

7 hours ago, Diesel said:

He also said that Doc called and texted him and he didn't answer. 

How hard is it to respond to a text.   Especially a text from your new HC?

Let's understand this fully... You're getting paid 33 MILLION dollars this year and you can't call or text your boss back in the offseason?

Camp.. if you were making 33 million dollars and your supervisor texted you for whatever reason, you're not going to return his text?

This is my problem.  I smell Primadonna.   I believe he's going to want to come to this team and be the primadonna because his contract says he makes a lot.   We don't have primadonnas..  NOT Even Trae.  We're Blue Collar.  Trae out here taking charges... There's nothing pretty or fancy about what we do.

I'm in the see it from both sides camp, not a picking sides camp. Objectively, if Simmons joined the Hawks, he'd be the second best player on the roster and capable of running the team if Trae went down and is fairly young. No one else on the team is a clear #2. I can look at that objectively.  I'm not for or against anything. Just talking here.

[NekiEcko]

2 minutes ago, thecampster said:

I'm in the see it from both sides camp, not a picking sides camp. Objectively, if Simmons joined the Hawks, he'd be the second best player on the roster and capable of running the team if Trae went down and is fairly young. No one else on the team is a clear #2. I can look at that objectively.  I'm not for or against anything. Just talking here.

I have to totally agreed with this statement, Atlanta needs a secondary playmaker that help Trae and able to run the team when Trae is not in the game or went down.  That Raptors game really show you what would happen if you dont have a playmaker out there.  They kept on blitzing the ballhandler every play that Hawks had it and that cause alot of turnovers.