My guy has talked around NBA circles of late

[TheNorthCydeRises]

1 hour ago, Atlantaholic said:

Adding gay getting rid of Gallo is a sidways move. Helps the defense some at the expense of the offense. Originally I was more "pro" this move assuming Gay can still play in the perimeter but it seems like he is strictly a PF like Gallo now. If Joe Ingles was healthy this deal would make sense, but he isn't so I don't think this is a good one. 

Gallo is better than Rudy Gay at this point in their careers and it's not even close. That trade would signal that the Hawks are just playing out the season with no postseason expectation goals.

Y'all would hate Rudy by March 1st.

[JeffS17]

Neutral on Gallo/Rudy swap... I think this board overrates Gallo because he has bailed out our dysfunctional second unit at times.  If that move sets our cap situation up a little better for next year, I'm fine with it.  Retaining Gallo next year would be a bad move imo.  He's a very good 3P shooter and can bail out bad offensive possessions, but he's also very uncoordinated and relies heavily on the refs at times -- feel like I'm watching Bambi on ice when he drives to the rim.  Retaining Gallo because he's our BEST option on the second unit doesn't address the real issue is we don't have any options BETTER than him right now. 

I'd frame this entire post differently if he was going to cost us $10M instead of $22M next year.  Also didn't address how atrocious his defense is and how many free buckets he gives up every game

[Atlantaholic]

5 minutes ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

Gallo is better than Rudy Gay at this point in their careers and it's not even close. That trade would signal that the Hawks are just playing out the season with no postseason expectation goals.

Y'all would hate Rudy by March 1st.

There's no way in heck Gallo is better defensively than Gay. Gallo is one of the worst defensive players at his position in the NBA, bottom 10 hands down, while Rudy Gay has had fantastic defensive metrics both in the Spurs and Jazz the last 4 years. Offensively, yes Gallo is (probably) better. Going from Gallo to Gay would be like going from Huerter to Wright. I never said I would do it, just pointing out that the net impact based on any metric available indicates it would likely be a net equal, offensve for defense swap.

 

[TheNorthCydeRises]

30 minutes ago, macdaddy said:

I honestly didn't know Gay was still in the league.   I'm not dumping Gallo just to save $5 m next year.   What kind of message does that send?  

It sends the message that this ownership isn't big league yet. Paying a small amount of Luxury Tax is pretty much standard for playoff level NBA teams. 

[REHawksFan]

5 minutes ago, JeffS17 said:

If that move sets our cap situation up a little better for next year, I'm fine with it. 

Does it though?  Hawks are only on the hook for $5,000,000 next year if they cut Gallo but would be on the hook for over $6,000,000 with Gay next season AND he has a player option for the following year at $6,500,000.  How is that better than $5,000,000 to move on from Gallo (if indeed you want to clear cap space for a bigger move)?  

Edited February 9, 2022 by REHawksFan

[Atlantaholic]

8 minutes ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

It sends the message that this ownership isn't big league yet. Paying a small amount of Luxury Tax is pretty much standard for playoff level NBA teams. 

There's no chance we keep Gallo next year. 33+ year old players that have two seasons worth of big declines despite no signifcant injuries are not exactly big bounce back candidates. Defensively Gallo has gone from a net neutral defender when we signed him to a huge defensive liability and his scoring rate has gone down from 23pp36min to 15 while his TS% has dropped from 61% to 58% and his free throw rate is down like 40% too. He was worth 20 million when we signed him and I'd say he is worth 8 million this year, and probably will continue to get worse next year. We are way better off extending Okonguw's and Collin's minutes next year rather than banking on Gallo to be a + player for us paying him starter money. 

 

[kg01]

10 minutes ago, JeffS17 said:

Neutral on Gallo/Rudy swap... I think this board overrates Gallo because he has bailed out our dysfunctional second unit at times.  If that move sets our cap situation up a little better for next year, I'm fine with it.  Retaining Gallo next year would be a bad move imo.  He's a very good 3P shooter and can bail out bad offensive possessions, but he's also very uncoordinated and relies heavily on the refs at times -- feel like I'm watching Bambi on ice when he drives to the rim.  Retaining Gallo because he's our BEST option on the second unit doesn't address the real issue is we don't have any options BETTER than him right now. 

I'd frame this entire post differently if he was going to cost us $10M instead of $22M next year.  Also didn't address how atrocious his defense is and how many free buckets he gives up every game

But that's the thing.  Our 2nd unit is dysfunctional offensively.  Adding a guy like Gay doesn't actually help.

[JeffS17]

5 minutes ago, REHawksFan said:

Does it though?  Hawks are only on the hook for $5,000,000 next year if they cut Gallo but would be on the hook for over $6,000,000 with Gay next season AND he has a player option for the following year at $6,500,000.  How is that better than $5,000,000 to move on from Gallo (if indeed you want to clear cap space for a bigger move)?  

Because Rudy Gay is a player, not completely dead cap.  He can be included in a trade package or if he is serviceable, can play in a backup capacity.  The better way to frame is it would you rather have Rudy Gay or a vet min type player.

Rudy on $6M or dead cap Gallo $5M + ~$2M for a washed up vet or two-way player/second rounder

[kg01]

8 minutes ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

It sends the message that this ownership isn't big league yet. Paying a small amount of Luxury Tax is pretty much standard for playoff level NBA teams. 

Unfortunately, with the way this season has gone, I'd have major pause if Schlenk came into my office tryna convince me to pay extra money to keep this team intact.

I say that as someone (now) hoping we stand pat.  But if I were cuttin' the chex I'd be .... hesitant.

[JeffS17]

Just now, kg01 said:

But that's the thing.  Our 2nd unit is dysfunctional offensively.  Adding a guy like Gay doesn't actually help.

Helps the defense.  Gallo is a net negative on the court despite efficient scoring.  That's how bad his defense is.  You can make 50% of your 3s but that doesn't matter if you get smoked every possession for a layup.  He's also a much much worse rebounder which is something our second unit needs badly.

[Atlantaholic]

3 minutes ago, JeffS17 said:

Because Rudy Gay is a player, not completely dead cap.  He can be included in a trade package or if he is serviceable, can play in a backup capacity.  The better way to frame is it would you rather have Rudy Gay or a vet min type player.

Rudy on $6M or dead cap Gallo $5M + ~$2M for a washed up vet or two-way player/second rounder

Well we would have those $5M plus Delons $8M available, no? I'd rather use that to bring in a younger impact player than keep either Rudy or Gallo. 

[TheNorthCydeRises]

10 minutes ago, Atlantaholic said:

There's no way in heck Gallo is better defensively than Gay. Gallo is one of the worst defensive players at his position in the NBA, bottom 10 hands down, while Rudy Gay has had fantastic defensive metrics both in the Spurs and Jazz the last 4 years. Offensively, yes Gallo is (probably) better. Going from Gallo to Gay would be like going from Huerter to Wright. I never said I would do it, just pointing out that the net impact based on any metric available indicates it would likely be a net equal, offensve for defense swap.

 

All I know is that this team struggles mightily at times when Gallo isn't in the lineup.  He's an above average spot up shooter and iso player. His foul drawing ability is 2nd only to Trae. And he plays good team perimeter defense. 

He's actually weaker around the rim than out on the perimeter.

If we have any playoff aspirations, you do not trade Gay for Gallo.

[kg01]

9 minutes ago, JeffS17 said:

Helps the defense.  Gallo is a net negative on the court despite efficient scoring.  That's how bad his defense is.  You can make 50% of your 3s but that doesn't matter if you get smoked every possession for a layup.  He's also a much much worse rebounder which is something our second unit needs badly.

What good does it do to get stops if you can't score on the other end?  Good offense beats good defense every single time.  Some marginal uptick in defense, from a low-minute roleplayer, is not a winning decision.

Sure the 'metrics' will look a bit better, but whatt're you gonna do when you're down 8 and need to climb out of the hole?  A diet of Gay long 2's?  He's certainly not making any plays.

See that's where the numbers fail us.  Timely stops and shots are what matter and I trust old bad defense a** Gallo more than Gay in both those areas.  He did both in the playoffs.

[Spud2nique]

1 hour ago, capstone21 said:

Wait, Rudy Gay hasn't retired?

Canadian daily is slow.

[Spud2nique]

16 minutes ago, kg01 said:

I say that as someone (now) hoping we stand pat. 

Go to the rooftop (the stand pat thread) and yell it if you mean it. 

[Atlantaholic]

1 minute ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

All I know is that this team struggles mightily at times when Gallo isn't in the lineup.  He's an above average spot up shooter and iso player. His foul drawing ability is 2nd only to Trae. And he plays good team perimeter defense. 

He's actually weaker around the rim than out on the perimeter.

If we have any playoff aspirations, you do not trade Gay for Gallo.

It's a relatively small sample size Hawks 5-6 without Gallo this year. I will say when Gallo is on fire he is a huge impact player and easily better than Gay. It just isn't very often anymore. I'd rather keep Gallo personally this year, especially if we can make the playoffs I think having guys that can spread the floor is so important. 

[Spud2nique]

9 minutes ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

All I know is that this team struggles mightily at times when Gallo isn't in the lineup.  He's an above average spot up shooter and iso player. His foul drawing ability is 2nd only to Trae. And he plays good team perimeter defense. 

He's actually weaker around the rim than out on the perimeter.

If we have any playoff aspirations, you do not trade Gay for Gallo.

Oh what do you know you’re a$$’ll be joyously drunk for the Bengals and doin the ickey shuffle like it’s 88..

[REHawksFan]

15 minutes ago, Atlantaholic said:

Well we would have those $5M plus Delons $8M available, no? I'd rather use that to bring in a younger impact player than keep either Rudy or Gallo. 

Exactly. This conversation was about Cap Space not Vet minimum players plus Rudy. If the goal is to free up Cap Space (I don't know if it is or isn't) then keeping Gallo this year and then cutting him frees up more space than having Rudy on the payroll.  

[DS5]

I hope we get some form of draft compensation if we trade Gallo for Gay and an injured Ingles who won’t play for us. 

[Atlantaholic]

Just now, REHawksFan said:

Exactly. This conversation was about Cap Space not Vet minimum players plus Rudy. If the goal is to free up Cap Space (I don't know if it is or isn't) then keeping Gallo this year and then cutting him frees up more space than having Rudy on the payroll.  

Not a ton of very attractive players at that salary range next year. But guys like Pat Bev, Nurkic, TJ Warren, might be worth taking a swing at.