The Psychology of Being a GM

[Diesel]

I thought about it today.  Now that the full leak is out that Travis Considered sending JC, Cam, and a 1st to Philly for Ben Simmons. 

Think of the psychology of letting that leak out. 

First... Our team:

JC now knows.. that he could have been traded.  The team knows that there were changes that were about to be made... substantial changes.   For John, he can't cry loyal because we just gave him a massive contract.   He also have to think that it's possible that he can still be traded.   And so does everybody else.   I mean, they have seen Cam walk through that door. 

Psychologically, it makes everybody work a little harder so that it doesn't happen. 

 

For .... Philly:

It puts Morey's bad dealing on the street. He turned down two good players and a pick for a player that's not even playing.   As teams like Sacramento drop out of the trade game and lose interest in Simmons, this headline has to strike a nerve with both Players and Fans.  If no deal is made, the Fans will always have a point of reference that suggests how all of this could have been different. 

 

[hylndr11]

True but this is all what Ben wants or his team whatever.  This kid is holding the gm and by way of gm the sixers hostage basically, leaving the gm with almost damned if u do damned if u don't options. It's.not the gm fault he can't get what he wants from Ben it'd Ben fault, Ben behaviour created the situation and put buddy in a bad place now if 1 single player did this to.the hawks and put our team hostage like this y'all would spit.   If he doesn't trade Ben he prolly get fired if he does and doesn't get what they think is enough in return ,he will.also get fired.  

Kill the mental health platitudes,  that is not what this is.

If we get him for a song, fine but the sixers have little leverage here.

 

 

[thecampster]

7 minutes ago, hylndr11 said:

True but this is all what Ben wants or his team whatever.  This kid is holding the gm and by way of gm the sixers hostage basically, leaving the gm with almost damned if u do damned if u don't options. It's.not the gm fault he can't get what he wants from Ben it'd Ben fault, Ben behaviour created the situation and put buddy in a bad place now if 1 single player did this to.the hawks and put our team hostage like this y'all would spit.   If he doesn't trade Ben he prolly get fired if he does and doesn't get what they think is enough in return ,he will.also get fired.  

Kill the mental health platitudes,  that is not what this is.

If we get him for a song, fine but the sixers have little leverage here.

 

 

I think you have to think what happened to Ben. The passed on shot was a bad choice but Simmons explained that he thought Gallo was right on his hip and would have blocked it from behind. 

But his coach, the best player on the team, the media all turned on him for a few short days.

Imagine this scenario. You get called into HR with a final warning. Your wife and mother, the 2 people that are supposed to have your back, start telling people they don't know if the wife will divorce you if you lose your job and the mother says she isn't sure if you'll be invited for Thanksgiving if you lose your job. How would you feel? Would you ever be able to trust your wife has your back or be able to look at your mom the same way again. They didn't even say it to you, they said it to your friends, on FB, Twitter and in a TikTok video. They don't discuss your shortcomings, they just leave it out in the open that if you don't perform, you aren't family.  How do you feel?

 

That is what happened to Simmons. He'd been building for this moment for 4 years, waiting for a chance to play for a championship and when he had a moment of failure, his coach and teammates turned on him, ever so briefly.  

 

 

 

 

 

[kg01]

The media smear campaign against Simmons was swift and it originated from the people he trusted the most.

It wasn't just that they highlighted his mistake, it was that they literally blamed the series loss on him and that one play.

GLLLLenn, after "having his back" all year, turned on him as soon as it suited his personal agenda.  Confirming all the previous support was grandstanding.

JoeLLLL was even more egregious considering his lack of being in shape cost them in previous years but Simmons shouldered blame there.

I can't believe the volume of people that ate the anti-Simmons tripe without even questioning it.

No, he's not blameless.  And, yes, he needs to work on certain areas of his game.  But folks talk about him like he's trash.  That's simply not true.

[macdaddy]

55 minutes ago, kg01 said:

The media smear campaign against Simmons was swift and it originated from the people he trusted the most.

It wasn't just that they highlighted his mistake, it was that they literally blamed the series loss on him and that one play.

GLLLLenn, after "having his back" all year, turned on him as soon as it suited his personal agenda.  Confirming all the previous support was grandstanding.

JoeLLLL was even more egregious considering his lack of being in shape cost them in previous years but Simmons shouldered blame there.

I can't believe the volume of people that ate the anti-Simmons tripe without even questioning it.

No, he's not blameless.  And, yes, he needs to work on certain areas of his game.  But folks talk about him like he's trash.  That's simply not true.

Yep.   And i don't even want Simmons.  Both things are true.  Doc and Embiid did Simmons wrong and deserve this mess.  But I'm not a big fan of Simmons game.  Maybe I just don't appreciate it and don't understand well enough how it will work with Trae but to me it's just too big a risk.  

I'm more interested after hearing that Trae wants it to happen but league has countless examples of stars lobbying for players that don't work out and then the star bolts.  Ultimately we have no idea if Trae knows how to build a team.  

[thecampster]

8 minutes ago, macdaddy said:

Yep.   And i don't even want Simmons.  Both things are true.  Doc and Embiid did Simmons wrong and deserve this mess.  But I'm not a big fan of Simmons game.  Maybe I just don't appreciate it and don't understand well enough how it will work with Trae but to me it's just too big a risk.  

I'm more interested after hearing that Trae wants it to happen but league has countless examples of stars lobbying for players that don't work out and then the star bolts.  Ultimately we have no idea if Trae knows how to build a team.  

So Simmons off ball isn't a shooter but is a back door cut/slash to the basket nightmare both as a receiver of the pass and a decision maker once accepting the pass. In the current scheme, our shooters stay on the perimeter with only Hunter being a real threat on the backdoor cut. Gallo is a statue without the ball (dude is pretty stiff) Huerter, BB lack the raw athleticism to be a real threat in that scenario. Defensively, wings can play tight on our shooters in the pick n roll because they'd rarely be beat going in. Simmons brings a lot of movement during pick n roll situations that would force defensive rotations, leaving shooters more open.

On defense, Simmons changes passing lanes and creates double team opportunities for the guards to execute as he's there to disrupt passes out of the double team. Its a really solid fit as long as we keep at least 2 shooters on the floor at all times.  Simmons without the ball moves a lot like Korver used to but instead of running through screens and moving out he's dragging people around and cutting.

Edited January 21, 2022 by thecampster

[macdaddy]

5 minutes ago, thecampster said:

So Simmons off ball isn't a shooter but is a back door cut/slash to the basket nightmare both as a receiver of the pass and a decision maker once accepting the pass. In the current scheme, our shooters stay on the perimeter with only Hunter being a real threat on the backdoor cut. Gallo is a statue without the ball (dude is pretty stiff) Huerter, BB lack the raw athleticism to be a real threat in that scenario. Defensively, wings can play tight on our shooters in the pick n roll because they'd rarely be beat going in. Simmons brings a lot of movement during pick n roll situations that would force defensive rotations, leaving shooters more open.

On defense, Simmons changes passing lanes and creates double team opportunities for the guards to execute as he's there to disrupt passes out of the double team. Its a really solid fit as long as we keep at least 2 shooters on the floor at all times.  Simmons without the ball moves a lot like Korver used to but instead of running through screens and moving out he's dragging people around and cutting.

I think the question for me is if you have 2 guys on the floor you can just sag off then the lane isn't going to be locked down making backdoor cuts and Trae's floaters and lobs more difficult. 

[macdaddy]

2 minutes ago, macdaddy said:

I think the question for me is if you have 2 guys on the floor you can just sag off then the lane isn't going to be locked down making backdoor cuts and Trae's floaters and lobs more difficult. 

lane is going to be...

[bleachkit]

4 minutes ago, macdaddy said:

I think the question for me is if you have 2 guys on the floor you can just sag off then the lane isn't going to be locked down making backdoor cuts and Trae's floaters and lobs more difficult. 

With Ben, Trae might have to shoot more and use his floater less. But Trae would have an excellent slasher to pass to, something we currently dont have.

[Diesel]

1 hour ago, hylndr11 said:

True but this is all what Ben wants or his team whatever.  This kid is holding the gm and by way of gm the sixers hostage basically, leaving the gm with almost damned if u do damned if u don't options. It's.not the gm fault he can't get what he wants from Ben it'd Ben fault, Ben behaviour created the situation and put buddy in a bad place now if 1 single player did this to.the hawks and put our team hostage like this y'all would spit.   If he doesn't trade Ben he prolly get fired if he does and doesn't get what they think is enough in return ,he will.also get fired.  

Kill the mental health platitudes,  that is not what this is.

If we get him for a song, fine but the sixers have little leverage here.

 

 

That's really not the case anymore.  Once you find out that he's not playing, the GM's job is to go out and get the best deal he can.  Sorta like Travis and Cam.   Especially when you can't get Ben on the court.   So with that in mind, Morey has turned down good deals for Ben.  Deals that would have put his team in better playoff positions.   My contention is if they lose in the playoffs, there will always be that thought... We could have had Cam and JC helping us to win those games.   So... It's Ben's fault loses it's power when you have a GM who won't make a deal. 

[thecampster]

19 minutes ago, macdaddy said:

lane is going to be...

Well one of those players is in the lane all the time anyway....but Ben's game is based on movement.  See the 

15 second mark. but then watch the whole video. He's just very sneaky at getting himself ready to finish. He's kind of the ultimate bail out player when things on a play go wrong. He can make a bad play go right.

 

 

 

[JeffS17]

1 hour ago, kg01 said:

The media smear campaign against Simmons was swift and it originated from the people he trusted the most.

It wasn't just that they highlighted his mistake, it was that they literally blamed the series loss on him and that one play.

GLLLLenn, after "having his back" all year, turned on him as soon as it suited his personal agenda.  Confirming all the previous support was grandstanding.

JoeLLLL was even more egregious considering his lack of being in shape cost them in previous years but Simmons shouldered blame there.

I can't believe the volume of people that ate the anti-Simmons tripe without even questioning it.

No, he's not blameless.  And, yes, he needs to work on certain areas of his game.  But folks talk about him like he's trash.  That's simply not true.

Pretty much exactly how I feel.  That's always been Doc though, nothing new.  No one can convince me this guy is a good coach and it's fascinating how well regarded he is in some circles.  

Also, anyone who watched every game of the series saw a few key things that "lost" Philly the series.  I say "lost" in quotations because I believe that we dogged it out and won that series -- I don't see it as Philly losing it, #1 seed or not.  In order of importance:

1. Phillys bench was outclassed and constantly gave up leads
2. Doc is a garbage coach and his adjustments were terrible.  He watched 20 point leads evaporate with no timeouts or adjustments
3. Tobias Harris underperformed BADLY -- no idea how this wasn't a bigger story line, probably because the guy is so chill and nice
4. Embiid consistently got gassed in the 4th quarter and failed to close games out that were winnable
5. Ben Simmons shot FTs poorly
6. Ben Simmons did not dunk it on one play (but Philly still got 1 point from free throws)

[JeffS17]

6 minutes ago, thecampster said:

Well one of those players is in the lane all the time anyway....but Ben's game is based on movement.  See the 

15 second mark. but then watch the whole video. He's just very sneaky at getting himself ready to finish. He's kind of the ultimate bail out player when things on a play go wrong. He can make a bad play go right.

 

 

 

Capela and Simmons both being at the top of these lists probably suggests they won't mesh well on the floor TOGETHER, no?  Their games and positioning offball are so similar unless one of them would be in the PnR action.  I can't imagine we keep Capela in the offseason if we trade for Ben, not unless we gel REALLY well and make a run in the playoffs or something...

[bleachkit]

8 minutes ago, JeffS17 said:

Capela and Simmons both being at the top of these lists probably suggests they won't mesh well on the floor TOGETHER, no?  Their games and positioning offball are so similar unless one of them would be in the PnR action.  I can't imagine we keep Capela in the offseason if we trade for Ben, not unless we gel REALLY well and make a run in the playoffs or something...

Yea he's not really the ideal center to play with Ben. He can still be useful in lineups with Trae though. Maybe instead of "starters" vs "bench". We can have a Trae line up and a Ben line up, where we mix and match personell. 

[thecampster]

12 minutes ago, JeffS17 said:

Capela and Simmons both being at the top of these lists probably suggests they won't mesh well on the floor TOGETHER, no?  Their games and positioning offball are so similar unless one of them would be in the PnR action.  I can't imagine we keep Capela in the offseason if we trade for Ben, not unless we gel REALLY well and make a run in the playoffs or something...

The opposite.  Its a 3 man game that JC is good at, Simmons is great at.  You have the ball handler, the pic setter and the dunk position.  This set is designed to force big men to stop bodying up their man and stop penetration. If the big leaves the dunker, he has an easy stuff, if the moving big leaves the roll, he gets an easy roll and often draws a foul. If both stick with their man, it gives the ball handler lots of options and forces a wing to dip to help leaving a shooter open.

Simmons advantage over Collins here is the ability to put the ball on the floor as the roller and being a better passer, decision maker to all people on the floor.

[kg01]

27 minutes ago, JeffS17 said:

Pretty much exactly how I feel.  That's always been Doc though, nothing new.  No one can convince me this guy is a good coach and it's fascinating how well regarded he is in some circles.  

Also, anyone who watched every game of the series saw a few key things that "lost" Philly the series.  I say "lost" in quotations because I believe that we dogged it out and won that series -- I don't see it as Philly losing it, #1 seed or not.  In order of importance:

1. Phillys bench was outclassed and constantly gave up leads
2. Doc is a garbage coach and his adjustments were terrible.  He watched 20 point leads evaporate with no timeouts or adjustments
3. Tobias Harris underperformed BADLY -- no idea how this wasn't a bigger story line, probably because the guy is so chill and nice
4. Embiid consistently got gassed in the 4th quarter and failed to close games out that were winnable
5. Ben Simmons shot FTs poorly
6. Ben Simmons did not dunk it on one play (but Philly still got 1 point from free throws)

I literally agree with each and every word of this.

- How has Harris' choke-job gone so far under the radar?  Guy had a mismatch in his favor for every minute he was on the floor.

- EmbLLLLiid is constantly out of shape and gassed in 4th quarters but folks highlight Simmons' lack of shooting instead?  HE'S NOT SUPPOSED TO BE THE ONE SHOOTING ANYWAYS!

- GLLLLenn sat there multiple times, AT HOME, and watched them give away leads. But it's all on Simmons?!

I feel like we went back in time with this discussion but I'm here for it.  The character assassination of Simmons has to stop, and I'm not even that big a fan of the dude.

[Diesel]

1 hour ago, macdaddy said:

I think the question for me is if you have 2 guys on the floor you can just sag off then the lane isn't going to be locked down making backdoor cuts and Trae's floaters and lobs more difficult. 

Not really.

When Trae sets up the PNR with Cap... it requires two players/maybe three to defend.    We see it all the time, Trae gets those two guys defender and a third guy leaning and he shoots it out to Huerter who always misses the wide open shot.   Last year, Bogi hit the wide open shot.  And Bogi or huerter can always swing it to JC who can hit the wide open shot.   That's just two options if Trae gives up the ball.   However, the way it would work is that you have Simmons.. not at the three point line but somewhere close to that.  Trae swings to him... He's so long that he gets a step towards the basket and it's either two point or he can find an open man.

He's the driving threat that neither Bogi or Huerter can be. 

But his other value is that we don't have to just operate out of the PNR.  He can initiate the offense.

In Simmons you have a guy who can do with the ball the same thing that Lebron does minus the long range shooting. 

[AHF]

3 hours ago, thecampster said:

The opposite.  Its a 3 man game that JC is good at, Simmons is great at.  You have the ball handler, the pic setter and the dunk position.  This set is designed to force big men to stop bodying up their man and stop penetration. If the big leaves the dunker, he has an easy stuff, if the moving big leaves the roll, he gets an easy roll and often draws a foul. If both stick with their man, it gives the ball handler lots of options and forces a wing to dip to help leaving a shooter open.

Simmons advantage over Collins here is the ability to put the ball on the floor as the roller and being a better passer, decision maker to all people on the floor.

Hear you but I still have really, really big questions whether Capela and Simmons can function together.  I don't have the same concerns about JC and Simmons.  If we were playing Utah, for example, I would see Gobert and O'Neal setting up camp in the lane.  They can somewhat ignore Simmons and Capela if they are even a little ways away from the basket with the only worry being retaining the ability to pick them up if they come back into the lane on a cut.  If you trade JC to get Simmons and don't take Harris, this gets exacerbated because then you don't have a strong perimeter option other than Trae and the SG (and our SGs aren't consistent).  JC is our one big who can really punish people when left open on the perimeter and his diminished role is partly a result of Capela being unable to spread the floor which forces us to feed Capela more on the roll game because JC can do more but Capela really can't contribute on offense outside of that.  

Maybe it would work like you envision but I can see it being problematic on offense to run with a lineup like Trae, Huerter, Hunter, Simmons and JC.

[thecampster]

1 minute ago, AHF said:

Hear you but I still have really, really big questions whether Capela and Simmons can function together.  I don't have the same concerns about JC and Simmons.  If we were playing Utah, for example, I would see Gobert and O'Neal setting up camp in the lane.  They can somewhat ignore Simmons and Capela if they are even a little ways away from the basket with the only worry being retaining the ability to pick them up if they come back into the lane on a cut.  If you trade JC to get Simmons and don't take Harris, this gets exacerbated because then you don't have a strong perimeter option other than Trae and the SG (and our SGs aren't consistent).  JC is our one big who can really punish people when left open on the perimeter and his diminished role is partly a result of Capela being unable to spread the floor which forces us to feed Capela more on the roll game because JC can do more but Capela really can't contribute on offense outside of that.  

Maybe it would work like you envision but I can see it being problematic on offense to run with a lineup like Trae, Huerter, Hunter, Simmons and JC.

In all fairness I'm thinking of my Gallo/Bogi 2 firsts deal. You'd have a starting lineup with Trae/Huerter/Hunter/Collins/Capela, swap out Hunter early to swap in Ben, then when Trae goes out (4 minutes later) you're playing Ben at the point. Until Trae comes back in. You're staggering Ben/Hunter to minimize the time Ben is on the floor with Capela and using OO as the backup 5. Basically giving both Ben and Hunter about 30 minutes but in different positions. When Ben and Trae are on the floor together, Collins is playing mostly as a stretch 4 to open the floor up, give him shot opportunities from 3.

[JayBirdHawk]

1 hour ago, thecampster said:

In all fairness I'm thinking of my Gallo/Bogi 2 firsts deal.

Steal of the century - sign me up, lol.

1 hour ago, thecampster said:

Trae/Huerter/Hunter/Collins/Capela, swap out Hunter early to swap in Ben,

Ben off the bench - yeah....I don't think he'll be a happy camp(st)er.