This scapegoat Cam BS needs to end

[Diesel]

2 hours ago, phoostal said:

Did anyone notice last night on nba TV that Grant Hill and Jon Barry were doing the highlights of the game.  After the highlights were done Barry said hawks have won 6 in a row and are rolling since Travis Schlenk lit into the team on the radio, Grant replies with "also since the team traded Cam Reddish."  I thought that was a telling remark.  I would think Grant knows the inner workings of this team and wouldn't throw a comment like that out there unless there was some validity to it.   Interesting. 

Actually, there's another way that that can be interpreted. 

Grant could have meant that Travis followed up his words with the action of moving a player.   It was both Gallo and I believe JC that said I don't want to be traded.   You'd have to think hearing fiery words from the GM and then seeing a guy moved and hearing other officials say that we're not done.. would give you more motivation..  Then you have to come to practice and See Kevin Knox playing like the GOAT... 

 

[Spud2nique]

1 hour ago, Spud2nique said:

Aye @NBASupes

https://www.instagram.com/tv/CZUpWs_Ilh4/?utm_medium=copy_link

[NBASupes]

I really don't care to respond to posts from posters who aren't snarky consistently or talking bs constantly. So if you are Jay, gsuteke, or anyone else I've never seen say anything in negative response outside of the Cam thread. I am not talking about you. So even if you feel some type of way about my post here, I really don't care. I read your post and you are not my intended target audience. 

[NBASupes]

3 hours ago, Hawkmoor said:

I noticed this garbage too but didn't comment on it.  Glad you did.  While I'm at it, the same types of posters did the same thing to Deion Sanders, Jeff George, David Justice, Julio Jones, Peerless Price, etc.  Different sports, SAME type of posters.  They wait till the player leaves the team and then show they ass.  The locals pissed Price off soo bad that he famously quipped "I hate yall" on the way out of Atlanta.  

You get it. I don't get it. It's like where is this smoke. One fool was like Supes and his minions be attacking if you say something negative about Cam when he was here. Who's my minions and who was saying negative stuff about Cam other than the guys who say negative about everyone and those guys haven't said shit about Cam since he got moved. The irony! 

[Diesel]

36 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

It wasn't directed to you. The guy who it was directed to has a long history with me. Very long history. It all goes back to Josh Smith and his personal favorite, Shelden Williams. 

 

That said, what was directed to everyone is literally everything else 

Oh.. So this whole tantrum is a call out on something that I have said about Cam???  With the whole board talking about Cam's departure is addition by subtraction (Note you never heard me say that). 

Get over yourself Supes.  Don't pass off your frustrations on ME... I am not your whipping boy. 

 

[Carmine]

I don't like how Cam didn't acknowledge his time here as a Hawk but there is nothing he's done in his tenure as a Hawk to warrant such vitrol from fans. I thought we left it all at the altar at the time of the trade but some folks just can't seem to let it go as Hawkmoor eluded to. I agree with the basis of this Supes thread, all Cam discussion should be regulated to 1 thread. Talking down on Cam in game threads & other threads that have nothing to do with him is just odd.

[LucastheThird]

30 minutes ago, Carmine said:

I don't like how Cam didn't acknowledge his time here as a Hawk but there is nothing he's done in his tenure as a Hawk to warrant such vitrol from fans. I thought we left it all at the altar at the time of the trade but some folks just can't seem to let it go as Hawkmoor eluded to. I agree with the basis of this Supes thread, all Cam discussion should be regulated to 1 thread. Talking down on Cam in game threads & other threads that have nothing to do with him is just odd.

I don't agree with this. As long as it is relevant to the topic, nothing should be relegated to only one thread.

 

Trae bad shooting nights should only go in one thread and never talked about anywhere else. See how bad that sounds?

 

This is Hawksquawk, as long as it is relevant to the topic started and is in relation to a Hawk player (Cam was for the last 3 years and was just recently traded) then it can be talked about anywhere on the forum in my opinion. 

[Carmine]

2 hours ago, LucastheThird said:

I don't agree with this. As long as it is relevant to the topic, nothing should be relegated to only one thread.

 

Trae bad shooting nights should only go in one thread and never talked about anywhere else. See how bad that sounds?

 

This is Hawksquawk, as long as it is relevant to the topic started and is in relation to a Hawk player (Cam was for the last 3 years and was just recently traded) then it can be talked about anywhere on the forum in my opinion. 

I respectfully disagree, unless we facing the Knicks there's no reason Cam to be brought in threads that are not around the league news or Cam original thread. Former players ≠ current players. Ultimately everyone going to do what they want so it's negligible. The talk doesn't bother me much, I even got a kick out of it when JayBird posted the tweet of Cam not getting minutes under Thibs because of how ironic it was. To each their own.

[Diesel]

On 1/29/2022 at 5:56 PM, Carmine said:

I don't like how Cam didn't acknowledge his time here as a Hawk but there is nothing he's done in his tenure as a Hawk to warrant such vitrol from fans. I thought we left it all at the altar at the time of the trade but some folks just can't seem to let it go as Hawkmoor eluded to. I agree with the basis of this Supes thread, all Cam discussion should be regulated to 1 thread. Talking down on Cam in game threads & other threads that have nothing to do with him is just odd.

I more than anybody hate to see a Hawks vs. Boston game thread become a Cam referendum.   (Go check the stacks).   I saw videos coming out and instead of making that thread about Cam, I posted that as another thread. Because the Hawks vs Boston needed to be about the Hawks vs. Boston.   If people want to talk about Cam sitting the bench in NY... that should have a separate place.    The point is players come and players go. If they are relevant to a discussion, they will be talked about and you shouldn't try to dictate where that discussion takes place.  

Do you think I piss and moan anytime a Nique got traded to the Clipps post comes out?  How about when somebody mentions that Deke was traded to Philly?  How about when it's brought up that we could have had CP3?

You got to choose, are you a fan of a player or are you a fan of this team?

 

[terrell]

On 1/29/2022 at 6:08 AM, NBASupes said:

[OP post quoted but I'm not re-editing it here again]

[TheNorthCydeRises]

13 hours ago, NBASupes said:

You get it. I don't get it. It's like where is this smoke. One fool was like Supes and his minions be attacking if you say something negative about Cam when he was here. Who's my minions and who was saying negative stuff about Cam other than the guys who say negative about everyone and those guys haven't said shit about Cam since he got moved. The irony! 

 

Minions?

Now we're taking things too far if people think you have minions.  Like you have an army of followers ready to zip up people in a body bag and duct tape folks if they step out of line.

 

[TheNorthCydeRises]

When I think about Cam Reddish, he is the pure definition of a "potential" pick. Even more than the infamous #24 back in 2005. Some in the media said that Cam had top 3 potential talent. Then he drops in the lottery because although he had great "potential", the analytics didn't match up with the potential.

Duke college stats:

• 35.6 FG%
• 33.3 3FG%
• 13.5 pts - 3.7 rebs - 1.9 asst

If he didn't look like a guy who could really ball, and didn't show flashes of greatness, I would say there would be no way in hell he would be chosen as a lottery pick, or even a 1st round pick, with those stats.  But everyone loved the "potential" of his talent, because he definitely showed flashes of it.

In college, this is the Cam game that most people remember.

 

 

Unfortunately for Cam, these games were rare for him in college.  Even the commentary at the end of this game signaled that Cam, up until this game, hadn't lived up to his potential at Duke.  His poor play in the ACC and NCAA tournaments ( 9.5 ppg - 3.3 rebs - 1.2 asst . . . 36% FG - 35% 3FG - 81% FT on 2.7 att ), further cast doubt in the people choosing him in the draft.  Because if you're playing beside the most efficient scoring player in NBA history ( Zion ) and another guy who played like he was the star of the team, a 3rd option Cam should've been much more efficient that what he was.

And that's the biggest issue with the guy in his basketball career since high school . . . efficiency.

 

I never actively rooted against Cam, but I was never on the Cam bandwagon either.  I agreed that we should've taken him at #10, with the only other option would be for us to take Tyler Herro.   Right now, Tyler is far and away the better pick.   And up until Trae's meteoric rise to being a top 15 player in the league. most fans rooted for Cam to be successful, just to justify the trade of "that dude in Dallas", for Trae + a 1st round pick ( who became Cam ).

Cam's rookie year stats - ( 58 games )

• 10.5 pts - 3.7 rebs - 1.5 asst . . . in 26.7 min
• 38% FG - 32% 3FG - 80% FT
• PER: 9.0
• BPM:  -0.9  ( box score plus/minus )

No real problem with Cam's rookie year, other than the fact that LP could've defined his role on the team better.  Cam's defensive potential was best displayed in his rookie year, in my opinion.  When you talked about on the ball defense, this was definitely his strength as a player.

 

While I was still seeing some of the things that was holding him back at Duke, I wasn't disappointed on what we've obtained, and looked forward to what he could do in Year 2.

( cont. )

[TheNorthCydeRises]

Year 2 I was expecting progress.   I wanted to see what Cam had added to his "bag". 

We saw it with our other young players.  We saw Collins continuing to work on his 3 point shooting and become much better at it.  We saw Huerter at least become a more active defender, although he was still below the level he could, or should be.  We saw Hunter REALLY take a jump with his offensive efficiency as a midrange scorer and specifically from the 3 point line.  And Trae continued his supernova escalation to one of the best players in the game.

But in Year 2, I really didn't see anything that Cam added to his game.

• 11.2 ppg - 4.0 rebs - 1.3 asst - 1.3 stls
• 37% FG - 26% 3FG - 82% FT
• PER:  9.3
• BPM:  -3.2

We could use the excuse of COVID at the end of the year as an excuse.  But the revelation that he refused to go to Summer League in 2020 is really telling. Normally, players going into their 3rd year don't do Summer League.  And I guess he felt that this performance in Game 6 in the Milwaukee game, was enough to excuse him from doing it.  

 

 

To me though, this would've been a great look for Cam to go to Summer League, seeing all of the time he missed in his 2nd year, and for the fact that EVERYTHING would've been run through him on that Summer League team.  It would've reminded me of what we did with Marvin Williams in Year 2 in the Utah Summer League, when he balled out and was the MVP.

It would've also been good for Cam, from a maturity and leadership perspective, to see him be the actual LEADER of a squad.  Something that he hasn't been since high school, due to the talent he had around him at Duke and in Atlanta.  Instead of just going out there and hooping, I would've liked to see if he would be somewhat of a vocal leader of the Summer League group and showed his leadership through his actions out on the court.  I think it was an opportunity missed for him.

By this time, he and his team wanted to leave Atlanta, despite the fans not knowing it.  I think we were ALL excited to see what Cam would bring in Year 3 after that Game 6 performance.  But by then, he was lobbying behind the scenes to see his way out of ATL.

 

Year 3 Hawks stats:

• 11.5 ppg - 2.4 rebs - 1.1 asst - 1.0 stls ( in 23 minutes a game . . . a 4 - 5 minute reduction from his first 2 years in the league )
• 40% FG - 38% 3FG
• PER:  13.2
• BPM:  -1.7

You would like to see his overall FG% be way higher, but there was no doubt that the 3 point shot was much more consistent this season.  When his feet were set, he was knocking that shot down.  What we has seen in Game 6 looked to be sustainable going into Year 3.  Cam had 9 games in which he made 3 threes or more, and 15 games in which he shot at least 40% from 3.  And when the Hawks were at their lowest, we got 2 Christmas presents from Cam of how an elite Cam Reddish could possibly look.

 

 

With all of our wings + Trae out of the lineup vs Orlando, this is the Summer League type scenario that I envisioned Cam having in Las Vegas.  He'd get to be the focal point of the offense and show the world exactly what he can do.  And he didn't disappoint.  Once he got Trae and Bogi back, he continued that high level of play vs Chicago.  And in that 4 game stretch, Cam averaged 23.8 pts - 3.8 rebs - 2.5 asst, while shooting 45% FG - 44% 3FG - 88% FT.

This is why I believe Cam and his people feel that Atlanta isn't the place for him.  It's also why I personally felt that when we were going through our problems, the wings had to be broken up.  Either trade 1 or 2, so that the other wings on the team can get the minutes and the opportunity to expand their games.  With Cam already wanting out, it was a pretty easy decision to make a deal for Cam.  What wasn't easy, was getting compensation for him in the form of a draft pick or a person of comparable ability.

The injury ironically came at the right time for Cam.  His stock after these two games was as high as ever.   The Hawks had to deal him when they dealt him.  They couldn't take a chance of his stock dropping, once we got everyone back and his minutes start to reduce.

 

The Hawks resurgence since the Cam trade is maybe 30% the result of Cam not being on the team.  Of that 30%, half of that is Nate not having to worry about playing 4 wings 20+ minutes a game, while sacrificing something on offense or defense.  And the other half is due to the trade waking up the team that Schlenk wasn't joking when he said that "maybe this team isn't good enough."  So to shake them up, you trade a fan favorite and the guy that most people see has the "potential" to be a star, despite only showing flashes of it every blue moon.

Unfortunately for Cam, the Knicks isn't going to be the place for him, unless management takes all of Thibs vet players away from him, and forces him to play the kids.  This will get Cam all of the playing time he wants, and he WILL get a pass from the Knicks fans for the rest of the season, unless he just totally sucks.

Realistically, Cam needs to be in a place in which he has a shot to be the #1 or #2 option guy, because from what I've seen from him since his days in Duke, he really doesn't know how to function on a team with talent around him. If he's not happy being a complimentary piece, he needs to be in a place where he can be the main guy.

But to be the main guy, you have to be able to produce on a nightly basis and/or be a leader out on the court.

Cam, at this point in his career, has shown that he can do neither.  And if he can't become a leader, he needs to PLAY with a leader that can direct him the right way on the court.

 

[TheNorthCydeRises]

19 hours ago, Diesel said:

Oh.. So this whole tantrum is a call out on something that I have said about Cam???  With the whole board talking about Cam's departure is addition by subtraction (Note you never heard me say that). 

Get over yourself Supes.  Don't pass off your frustrations on ME... I am not your whipping boy. 

 

 

Diesel, I must say that your GIF game has been on point these past few weeks.   

[MaceCase]

New MaCe wants nooooooo smoke, he wants to stay quiet even if he feels as if this mandate of keeping Cam topics quarantined wouldn’t exist if the inverse was occurring. 

Old MaCe is in the back grinning though, knowing all he needs to do is drop an “Acie Law V” comment in a game thread to ‘restore the feeling’ 

[HawkItus]

Eff Cam the sham. I hope Julius trips and falls on him in the shower. He refused to play in Summer league or embrace his role. It's Hawks over everyone else. If you ain't in the the uni you are an opp. 

https://gifer.com/en/2fXf

[Final_quest]

Our bench did not play as well against the Lakers, but I still think Cam would have caused to lose if he played today.  Pretty sure.  

[txsting]

On 1/29/2022 at 8:25 AM, marco102 said:

The problem with your posts is you refuse to say anything bad about Cam and went over the top saying we would forever regret this trade.

If you don't like to be called out, don't make these hyperbolic posts. You said you were taking names to call people out when Cam goes off, those posters are just calling you out because the Hawks are playing better now.

It seems like you are more of a Cam fan than Hawks fan.

I side with the Hawks everytime and don't care about a players business side of things. I'm not a fan of players. I'm a fan of the Hawks. 

Good post.  

[Spud2nique]

@TheNorthCydeRises Before the line comes out I’m guessing Rams -8.5

Your guess? 

[Sothron]

I'm asking @AHF to close this thread because this is just going to be a post for people to target @NBASupes with Cam jokes or posts. Goes against the spirit of community we have here imo.