Official Game Thread: Lakers at Hawks (1 PM Tip!)

[thecampster]

We're talking about turn your head and cough and bend over and spread your cheeks days at MEPS. I think questions of going too far have been blown by and lapped.

Edited January 31, 2022 by thecampster

[kg01]

1 minute ago, thecampster said:

We're talking about turn your head and cough and bend over and spread your cheeks days at MEPS. I think questions of going too far have been blown by and lapped.

Yeah those prison entrance procedures are a bitc....... wait, you meant ....... nevermind, I've never been to prison. 

[bleachkit]

23 minutes ago, shakes said:

slightly off topic, but no one hates refs more than Jay Bilas.    He's not even a homer, does only national games.  But, I guess he is a homer in the sense that he opposes the refs in every game he does.   He is constantly ripping the refs and very harshly, it's pretty funny.

 

 

Bilas is great, both smart and funny. 

[Diesel]

I would have started a new thread, but I didn't want the Fascist Thread Police to come and get me.

So here's the thing...

Do you know in Trae Young, we have a player who the League have set out to Stop?

The New Rulings about how to officiate players should really be called the Trae Young Rules....

I know somebody will say that they did this because of other players....

But How long have James Harden, Chris Paul, even going back to Reggie Miller... have people been offensively creating contact?  And Nobody has ever sought to change the rule?

I think Adam Silver and His Team looked at what Trae was able to do in the playoffs... Beat Two of his larger Market Teams... and win against the eventual Champion.. and said, we have to have some way to put this guy in Check. 

BUT.....

In 2019-20  Trae went to the FT line 8.0 times per game. 

In 2020-21 Trae went to the FT line 7.7 times per game 

In 2021-22 Trae has gone to the FT line 6.2 times per game. 

You would think that it has a great effect on his game?  Well, his scoring is better than last year... and his efficiency is UP..

2020 - 43.7%

2021 - 43.8%

2022 - 45.2%

If I could make a guess about it, I would say that because Trae has stopped looking for the refs to bail him out, his shooting is better.  

BUT.......

The emphasis is the playoffs.   Last year, Trae went to the FT line 8.4 times per game in the playoffs and against the 76ers, he went to the FT line 9.9 times per game. 

Dieselputer says...

When the playoffs starts, Trae won't be able to buy a foul call.  I believe that what we're seeing from Refs right now is nothing compared to the No Calls that Trae will get in the playoffs.  It's up to Nate to find ways to insulate Trae and Nate will have to use his voice to protect our star. 

 

[kg01]

@Diesel one other thing to mention is the current mvp leader is a notorious foul-baiter.  But, because 'they' like him, nobody calls him out for it.

"B-b-but he's a big man and him so dominant, thas why he gets fouls, kg."

Bowl-sh*t!  He plays a large percentage of his time out by the 3pt line.  Shaq  was fouled purposely all game long and didn't even get to the line like that guy.  JoeLLLLl gets to the line with a diet of swing-throughs that make KD blush.

But I guess it's only our guy that foul baits. 

[Diesel]

1 minute ago, kg01 said:

@Diesel one other thing to mention is the current mvp leader is a notorious foul-baiter.  But, because 'they' like him, nobody calls him out for it.

"B-b-but he's a big man and him so dominant, thas why he gets fouls, kg."

Bowl-sh*t!  He plays a large percentage of his time out by the 3pt line.  Shaq  was fouled purposely all game long and didn't even get to the line like that guy.  JoeLLLLl gets to the line with a diet of swing-throughs that make KD blush.

But I guess it's only our guy that foul baits. 

I hate the Joel Embiid Swing Through.

It should have it's own ruling because you can't expect anybody to defend him up close if he can swing that much of his upper body.  Just his shear girth gives him a radius that allows him to keep any defender off 2-3 feet because of the fear of getting their body or hands caught in the swing through.  And once you give Embiid 2-3 feet, he can put the ball on the floor at will. 

I've always wondered when Embiid brings the ball down that low on the faceup.. why nobody ever Karl Malone chops the ball??

KG is the muse of all of these Bigs who can put the ball on the floor.   One thing that KG would do that these guys do is that he would move from a back to the basket to a face up by dipping the ball and his shoulder low in the transition.  When you watch Embiid, he clearly does this most of the time he plans to drive.   In 2004, I watch Old man Malone (now with the Lakers) give KG that Work... because he wouldn't allow KG to switch from back to the basket to Face up... using that Chop.   Maybe because it was Malone, the refs never called the chop.   Maybe Malone was accurate enough to chop the ball and not foul.  I don't know.. but these guys today just let Embiid get to the face up and get killed. 

So defensively I would say:

1.  Work early and not allow him to get the ball while faced up. 

2.   Let him get the ball back to the basket. 

3.   Work early (back to the basket) and Karl Malone chop the ball at the low position when he tries to face up. 

If you do let him get to the face up position.. back off and call for help through the passing lane (i.e.  if somebody is coming to double, they better block the passing lane on the way in). 

 

[marco102]

31 minutes ago, Diesel said:

I would have started a new thread, but I didn't want the Fascist Thread Police to come and get me.

So here's the thing...

Do you know in Trae Young, we have a player who the League have set out to Stop?

The New Rulings about how to officiate players should really be called the Trae Young Rules....

I know somebody will say that they did this because of other players....

But How long have James Harden, Chris Paul, even going back to Reggie Miller... have people been offensively creating contact?  And Nobody has ever sought to change the rule?

I think Adam Silver and His Team looked at what Trae was able to do in the playoffs... Beat Two of his larger Market Teams... and win against the eventual Champion.. and said, we have to have some way to put this guy in Check. 

BUT.....

In 2019-20  Trae went to the FT line 8.0 times per game. 

In 2020-21 Trae went to the FT line 7.7 times per game 

In 2021-22 Trae has gone to the FT line 6.2 times per game. 

You would think that it has a great effect on his game?  Well, his scoring is better than last year... and his efficiency is UP..

2020 - 43.7%

2021 - 43.8%

2022 - 45.2%

If I could make a guess about it, I would say that because Trae has stopped looking for the refs to bail him out, his shooting is better.  

BUT.......

The emphasis is the playoffs.   Last year, Trae went to the FT line 8.4 times per game in the playoffs and against the 76ers, he went to the FT line 9.9 times per game. 

Dieselputer says...

When the playoffs starts, Trae won't be able to buy a foul call.  I believe that what we're seeing from Refs right now is nothing compared to the No Calls that Trae will get in the playoffs.  It's up to Nate to find ways to insulate Trae and Nate will have to use his voice to protect our star. 

 

If Trae is who we think he is, it won't matter.  Trae knows how to get legitimate calls within the rules.  He's just shoot the ball better and get those timely fouls as needed.

[bleachkit]

I'll know I'll get roasted for this. But why at the end of games it's always Trae dribbling for 20 seconds and then a tough contested shot? I'm not saying Trae isn't a superstar, I'm not saying he isn't the best player as have had in a long time. But nevertheless, I don't think dribbling the air out of the ball and then attempting a long three isnt the way to go. 

Edited January 31, 2022 by bleachkit

[kg01]

10 minutes ago, Diesel said:

I hate the Joel Embiid Swing Through.

It should have it's own ruling because you can't expect anybody to defend him up close if he can swing that much of his upper body.  Just his shear girth gives him a radius that allows him to keep any defender off 2-3 feet because of the fear of getting their body or hands caught in the swing through.  And once you give Embiid 2-3 feet, he can put the ball on the floor at will. 

I've always wondered when Embiid brings the ball down that low on the faceup.. why nobody ever Karl Malone chops the ball??

KG is the muse of all of these Bigs who can put the ball on the floor.   One thing that KG would do that these guys do is that he would move from a back to the basket to a face up by dipping the ball and his shoulder low in the transition.  When you watch Embiid, he clearly does this most of the time he plans to drive.   In 2004, I watch Old man Malone (now with the Lakers) give KG that Work... because he wouldn't allow KG to switch from back to the basket to Face up... using that Chop.   Maybe because it was Malone, the refs never called the chop.   Maybe Malone was accurate enough to chop the ball and not foul.  I don't know.. but these guys today just let Embiid get to the face up and get killed. 

So defensively I would say:

1.  Work early and not allow him to get the ball while faced up. 

2.   Let him get the ball back to the basket. 

3.   Work early (back to the basket) and Karl Malone chop the ball at the low position when he tries to face up. 

If you do let him get to the face up position.. back off and call for help through the passing lane (i.e.  if somebody is coming to double, they better block the passing lane on the way in). 

 

Kill all that noise.  The perfect defense for that guy is, as we did in the Trae-offs, let him score in the 1st half.  By the mid-3rd he'll be gassed, as usual.

Seriously though, you've laid a decent plan.  With the way the game is called, and the fact that they're not specifically out to get him (as they are with Trae), they render any competent defense pretty moot.  Just make sure no one else eats.

It really is odd that people choose (emphasis on 'choose') to ignore the fact that he baits fouls all game long.  It's a clear bail out for him since he can't play long without getting winded still.  If he could, he would just feast down low.

Just now, bleachkit said:

I'll know I'll get roasted for this. But why at the end of games it's always Trae dribbling for 20 seconds and then a tough contested shot? I'm not saying Trae isn't a superstar, I'm not saying he isn't the best player as have had in a long time. But nevertheless, I don't think dribbling the air out of the ball and then attempting a long three is the way to go. 

You shouldn't get roasted for this.  It's a legit question.  Makes us easier to defend.

Honestly, when he actually does pass in those situations, the defense is in mortal shock and have no idea what to do.

It's how Hunter got that game-clinching drive/shot at the end of that one game a few games ago (try to get less specific than that).

[bleachkit]

2 minutes ago, kg01 said:

Kill all that noise.  The perfect defense for that guy is, as we did in the Trae-offs, let him score in the 1st half.  By the mid-3rd he'll be gassed, as usual.

Seriously though, you've laid a decent plan.  With the way the game is called, and the fact that they're not specifically out to get him (as they are with Trae), they render any competent defense pretty moot.  Just make sure no one else eats.

It really is odd that people choose (emphasis on 'choose') to ignore the fact that he baits fouls all game long.  It's a clear bail out for him since he can't play long without getting winded still.  If he could, he would just feast down low.

You shouldn't get roasted for this.  It's a legit question.  Makes us easier to defend.

Honestly, when he actually does pass in those situations, the defense is in mortal shock and have no idea what to do.

It's how Hunter got that game-clinching drive/shot at the end of that one game a few games ago (try to get less specific than that).

The drive and kick, the lob. Those are higher percentage than the long three. 

[Peoriabird]

39 minutes ago, bleachkit said:

I'll know I'll get roasted for this. But why at the end of games it's always Trae dribbling for 20 seconds and then a tough contested shot? I'm not saying Trae isn't a superstar, I'm not saying he isn't the best player as have had in a long time. But nevertheless, I don't think dribbling the air out of the ball and then attempting a long three isnt the way to go. 

Trae hater! Lol!

[kg01]

23 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

Trae hater! Lol!

Why would you call him a hater?  He made a sensible, thoughtful critical comment.  It's not like he's spamming random complaints whether we win or lose.  That would be hater-like. 

[Diesel]

1 hour ago, marco102 said:

If Trae is who we think he is, it won't matter.  Trae knows how to get legitimate calls within the rules.  He's just shoot the ball better and get those timely fouls as needed.

I'm willing to bet money... .50 cents... that In the playoffs The refs will allow Trae to get Beat up.   It's more than just following the new ruling.. I really think they have it out for Trae and the Hawks and will allow the physical play to go on while their whistle are silent.  YEP a CON Spiracy. 

I don't think that the refs have been as bad as they will be.. in the playoffs. 

[Diesel]

1 hour ago, bleachkit said:

I'll know I'll get roasted for this. But why at the end of games it's always Trae dribbling for 20 seconds and then a tough contested shot? I'm not saying Trae isn't a superstar, I'm not saying he isn't the best player as have had in a long time. But nevertheless, I don't think dribbling the air out of the ball and then attempting a long three isnt the way to go. 

It's not always the case.  But most of the time... Trae is waiting on movement from the rest of the team.  You saw it clearly yesterday with OO.   It was three times down... Trae looked like he was dribbling and as soon as OO got an advantage or was moving towards the rim, Trae hit him with the lob.  I used to think that Trae was showboating out there... but nah.. I watched a lot of those times, he's waiting for the play to develop.   Sometimes, our guys move the way they are supposed to move.  A lot of times, it doesn't happen.   This was at it's worst when we had the 10 dayers out there.    I went back and watched a few of those moments... We had guys who would start working and then just Stop.  This included when OO first came back.   OO is learning how to move to the rim when Trae has the ball and to expect the ball. 

I think alot of these "expert fans" who believes that they understand the game really well.. don't understand what they see with Trae at all.  Trae is probably the most crafty PG I have seen since Stockton.  It's not a no-look pass with Trae.  Trae's passes are usually on the money and he knows where guys are supposed to be.  He will not use his eyes to guide a guy to the ball.  He just puts the ball in the guys path.  Watch him closely.   He's a 10 apg kind of guy because he can find guys the way that Magic and Kidd and them guys could do it.  But he's a 30 ppg scorer because he has an arsenal of ways that he can attack.   The League hasn't seen anything like Trae.  But his game management skills are often ignored by people who want to complain about his hero shot.  I'm looking forward to the day that Trae is hoisting the MVP of the league. 

 

 

[macdaddy]

12 minutes ago, Diesel said:

I'm willing to bet money... .50 cents... that In the playoffs The refs will allow Trae to get Beat up.   It's more than just following the new ruling.. I really think they have it out for Trae and the Hawks and will allow the physical play to go on while their whistle are silent.  YEP a CON Spiracy. 

I don't think that the refs have been as bad as they will be.. in the playoffs. 

NBA is going to usher Miami through the playoffs with this strategy i guarantee.   I don't know why but it's what they do.   So i hope we don't meet those guys in the playoffs.   

[Gray Mule]

1 hour ago, bleachkit said:

I'll know I'll get roasted for this. But why at the end of games it's always Trae dribbling for 20 seconds and then a tough contested shot? I'm not saying Trae isn't a superstar, I'm not saying he isn't the best player as have had in a long time. But nevertheless, I don't think dribbling the air out of the ball and then attempting a long three isnt the way to go. 

Prevent defense.  The Falcons have perfected their prevent defense.  What this does is prevent them from winning!

When the Hawks have a lead late in the 4th., Trae will hold the ball, waiting for the clock to run down.  Thus, a prevent offense.  If the Hawks are behind, ball goes zip all over, trying to get that great shot.  If the shot is taken early and missed, chances are, our opponent gets the ball and scores.  If, on the other hand, Trae dribbles the time away, he may get a foul and maybe hit his free throws.

[Diesel]

1 hour ago, kg01 said:

Kill all that noise.  The perfect defense for that guy is, as we did in the Trae-offs, let him score in the 1st half.  By the mid-3rd he'll be gassed, as usual.

Seriously though, you've laid a decent plan.  With the way the game is called, and the fact that they're not specifically out to get him (as they are with Trae), they render any competent defense pretty moot.  Just make sure no one else eats.

It really is odd that people choose (emphasis on 'choose') to ignore the fact that he baits fouls all game long.  It's a clear bail out for him since he can't play long without getting winded still.  If he could, he would just feast down low.

 

I'm afraid that letting him get gassed is not going to work this year.   He's in shape right now...He is honestly the most unstoppable player playing right now.  And the refs give him a break on everything.  The only way to defend him is to deny the face up.   If you let him get his face to the basket...  Just call it two points.  He got too many weapons.   Defenders will have to work early and work hard.   

This is why it's so hard for me to believe that Morey will just let this season pass.  There are teams like Your Atlanta hawks... that can beat Philly in the playoffs.  Maxey and Seth are not enough. 

 

[kg01]

12 minutes ago, Diesel said:

I'm willing to bet money... .50 cents... that In the playoffs The refs will allow Trae to get Beat up.   It's more than just following the new ruling.. I really think they have it out for Trae and the Hawks and will allow the physical play to go on while their whistle are silent.  YEP a CON Spiracy. 

I don't think that the refs have been as bad as they will be.. in the playoffs. 

It's a conspiracy but their behavior this season suggests you're not totally off.  The first month+ was a giant FU to Trae and some others.  Then they went back to close to normal.  Like they just wanted to puff their chests out and show the power(sic) they had.

I could see the same happening in the postseason.

That obvious foul when Davis literally ran through Trae on his 3 attempt was egregious.  I know what the "new" rule is but that doesn't mean the defender can literally bowl over the shooter.  Trae didn't jump out of his cylinder or airspace or however you want to define it.

[Diesel]

3 minutes ago, macdaddy said:

NBA is going to usher Miami through the playoffs with this strategy i guarantee.   I don't know why but it's what they do.   So i hope we don't meet those guys in the playoffs.   

Miami, NY and Grayson Allen...

I've noticed in Miami games that Butler can hold, hit, slap, and everything else and he rarely gets a whistle.  If I had a crystal ball, I would say that Miami will be the ones to put Chicago out of the playoffs (2nd round).  BECAUSE. Chicago can't play Physically.  They will crumble. 

[AHF]

18 hours ago, Final_quest said:

AD runs into him on a pump fake, no call leads to turnover.  Gets mauled in the back court and they call him for ….traveling.

Response: I’m sick of all these turnovers from Trae.  

Trae is our franchise, and we haven’t had anyone his caliber since Nique.  He could be greatest Hawk ever.  Dude generates like 60 points a game.  

Anyone remember AI or Kobe with perfect games every night?  They had a lot of ugly games.  

I’m on team Trae.  

Trae needs to continue his improvement with turnovers over time.  But let's note a couple of things:

(1)  Trae is putting up a career low # of turnovers per possession this season.  His first three seasons were 17.6, 16.2 and 16.2 turnovers per 100 possessions.  This year is a new low of 15.1.  By way of comparison, Chris Paul's turnover% this season is 15.4.

(2) The Hawks average the fewest turnover per game of any team in the league this season.  We are #1.  Who is most responsible for that if not the team's point guard?

(3) In this particular game, 3 of the 6 turnovers were the direct result of fouls that went uncalled.  One was a hack, two were AD colliding with Trae.  None of them were reflective of careless ballhandling, bad passes or bad decisions.  Ignoring those, Trae had 12 assists against 3 live play turnovers.  4:1 is pretty good.