Official Game Thread: Hawks at Magic

[thecampster]

7 hours ago, Diesel said:

Let's go Hawks!!

I was proud of the Boys tonight.   It's good when you get to see 5 minutes of Knox and the Mad Bomber and JJ.   It says that the game was over early.  Thankfully for us, we were the reason why. 

Over the Break... I want:

1.  Capela to practice Free Throws with Mark Price. 

2.   Hunter to practice three point shooting with Kyle Korver.

3.  Bogi to practice Defense with Bruce Bowen.

4.  Kev to practice Defense with Bogi and Bruce Bowen. 

5.   JC to get in the weight room. 

6.  OO to soak up everything that Lou is teaching. 

7.  Trae to have a good time at the allstar game and work out some back room deals with a player who wants to come to Atlanta for a ring.  (come on down Zach). 

8. The whole team to learn toughness from Ivan Johnson

 

Can you imagine Ivan Johnson in this locker room?  Or Tree Rollins/Kevin Willis? Vintage Charles Oakley?

 

Player X - I'm not happy with my role!

Oakley - Stiff back elbow, head butt followed by a grunt.

14 other guys - yes sir!

[hylndr11]

12 minutes ago, thecampster said:

Can you imagine Ivan Johnson in this locker room?  Or Tree Rollins/Kevin Willis? Vintage Charles Oakley?

 

Player X - I'm not happy with my role!

Oakley - Stiff back elbow, head butt followed by a grunt.

14 other guys - yes sir!

Not likely , moreso Oakley would be sequestered to the euro and booted by the NBA for bullying. 

Edited February 17, 2022 by hylndr11

[terrell]

7 hours ago, marco102 said:

I will. I don't understand why he's upset about not starting when he's playing the best ball of the season off the bench AND he's finishing games.  

He wants starter $ on his Next contract maybe? lol

And didnt Nate say you cant lose your job to injury?

That's what he told Kirshner when asked about OO staying in the starting lineup when Clint was out..

Edited February 17, 2022 by terrell

[TheNorthCydeRises]

9 hours ago, Diesel said:

Let's go Hawks!!

I was proud of the Boys tonight.   It's good when you get to see 5 minutes of Knox and the Mad Bomber and JJ.   It says that the game was over early.  Thankfully for us, we were the reason why. 

Over the Break... I want:

1.  Capela to practice Free Throws with Mark Price. 

2.   Hunter to practice three point shooting with Kyle Korver.

3.  Bogi to practice Defense with Bruce Bowen.

4.  Kev to practice Defense with Bogi and Bruce Bowen. 

5.   JC to get in the weight room. 

6.  OO to soak up everything that Lou is teaching. 

7.  Trae to have a good time at the allstar game and work out some back room deals with a player who wants to come to Atlanta for a ring.  (come on down Zach). 

8. The whole team to learn toughness from Ivan Johnson

 

 

LOL Diesel . . . they're going to be practicing alright . . . in Cancun, somewhere in the Caribbean, or in Europe.

The All-Star break for non all-stars, is vacation time for those players and coaches.  Some of them might already be on a plane to their vacation spot right now.  

 

[TheNorthCydeRises]

7 hours ago, Sothron said:

He signed a contract with us to be a starter. He could have went elsewhere as a free agent. He carried this team into the playoffs last season as a starter. It wasn't until he was hurt in the playoffs and again earlier this season that he lost his job from injury. For this entire month he has completely outplayed Kevin. Who in the world wouldn't be upset about not being the starter after that?

Being a starter matters to players. Bogi was already a sixth man in Sac. He doesn't have the years in him to go back to that role and then hope one day to be a starter again.  The fact Kevin was ass as a bench player this year and is better as a starter is not Bogi's problem and frankly it should not be. The best players should start and play the most minutes. Bogi is better than Kevin right now and I don't think it is even close.

 

Bogi as a starter:  29 min per game . . ( 12.2 ppg - 3.8 rebs - 2.6 ast . . . 42.9% FG - 37.3% 3FG - 76.9% FT . . . 18.1% usage rate )

Bogi as a reserve:  28.3 min per game . . ( 15.4 ppg - 4 rebs - 3.7 ast . . . 43.9% FG - 37.9% 3FG - 85.7% FT . . . 22.1% usage rate )

 

He's playing the same amount of minutes, but his usage rate is up playing a good chunk of his minutes with the 2nd unit.  And for the most part, he's in the lineup at the end of games, especially with Collins out.

 

Huerter as a starter:  31.3 min per game . . ( 12.8 ppg - 2.9 rebs - 3 ast . . . 48% FG - 41.5% 3FG - 91.3% FT . . . 17% usage rate )

Huerter as a reserve:  23.6 min per game . . ( 8.6 ppg - 3.8 rebs - 2.2 ast  . . . 40.5% FG - 23.6% 3FG ( YIKES! ) - 64.3% FT ( YIKES AGAIN! ) . . . 18.9% usage rate ) 

 

For the sake of the team, it is absolutely the right call to start Kevin over Bogi . . . but let Bogi close games.

[Diesel]

18 minutes ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

 

LOL Diesel . . . they're going to be practicing alright . . . in Cancun, somewhere in the Caribbean, or in Europe.

The All-Star break for non all-stars, is vacation time for those players and coaches.  Some of them might already be on a plane to their vacation spot right now.  

 

Well, I hope Mark Price is on the plane with Capela and there is a FT court whereever they land.   And I hope either Bruce Bowen or Patrick Beverley is hanging out with Kev and Bogi  and after they go jet skiing, they come back to the resort and work on their positional defense. 

 

[TheNorthCydeRises]

Also . . as was pointed out in the other thread, the fact that Huerter can stay healthy, is a big reason why keeping him as the starter may be best for the team.  From a health standpoint, neither Bogi or Hunter can be trusted to consistently be in the lineup.  Meanwhile, Huerter has only missed 10 games in the past 1.5 seasons . . with 3 or 4 of them due to COVID protocols.

[Diesel]

4 minutes ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

Also . . as was pointed out in the other thread, the fact that Huerter can stay healthy, is a big reason why keeping him as the starter may be best for the team.  From a health standpoint, neither Bogi or Hunter can be trusted to consistently be in the lineup.  Meanwhile, Huerter has only missed 10 games in the past 1.5 seasons . . with 3 or 4 of them due to COVID protocols.

I just think that we have a great continuity with the Hustle Squad and Bogi fits that better than Kev.   Bogi off the bench gives him the chance to be the 1st option on the 2nd Unit.  On the first Unit, PNR is the 1st Option.   Followed by Trae.  Then Bogi. 

[AHF]

12 hours ago, Atlantaholic said:

He makes Solo look like Joe Johnson. He's not long for this league.

This was my view on Knox when some people expressed interest in him as a potential draft pick:

On 3/3/2018 at 11:36 PM, AHF said:

I'm a UK fan but Knox would be a huge fail.  

Wasn't impressed with Knox in college.  Didn't think Knox was doomed to bust as a player but thought he absolutely wasn't the kind of high upside guy that you seek to draft as part of a tank.  Did not want any part of it.  Rooting for him to turn things around and make a career in the NBA after his rookie contract a reality but I place no real value on him for this season and would rather see those minutes go to Jalen.

 

[AHF]

24 minutes ago, Diesel said:

I just think that we have a great continuity with the Hustle Squad and Bogi fits that better than Kev.   Bogi off the bench gives him the chance to be the 1st option on the 2nd Unit.  On the first Unit, PNR is the 1st Option.   Followed by Trae.  Then Bogi. 

Agree with both of you.  Huerter is someone who wants to play in the flow of the game as a secondary option and take comfortable shots and move the ball when the comfortable shot isn't there.  You see it very plainly in his shooting %s when he is playing off of the starters versus being asked to carry a heavier lead off the bench.  Also like Bogi as the first option with the second unit.  His efficiency holds up much better when in that 'first option' role than Kev's and he is pretty steady in his production regardless of unit.  

The most important minutes are who is closing the game and Bogi can be the default option there but Nate should be adjusting his lineup on a given night based on the gameflow and play.  That is supposed to be the advantage of having depth.

[Gray Mule]

THE REAL SHOCKER OF THE NIGHT!

With 5 minutes remaining in the 4th quarter the Hawks inserted their third team.  With a slim 30 point lead they managed to hang on and not lose the game.  Nate was worried.

What happened?  Why didn't they fold?  

They got 4 rebounds, had a blocked shot and the mad bomber struck for three!

Nice way to enter the allstar break.  

 

[Sothron]

1 hour ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

 

Bogi as a starter:  29 min per game . . ( 12.2 ppg - 3.8 rebs - 2.6 ast . . . 42.9% FG - 37.3% 3FG - 76.9% FT . . . 18.1% usage rate )

Bogi as a reserve:  28.3 min per game . . ( 15.4 ppg - 4 rebs - 3.7 ast . . . 43.9% FG - 37.9% 3FG - 85.7% FT . . . 22.1% usage rate )

 

He's playing the same amount of minutes, but his usage rate is up playing a good chunk of his minutes with the 2nd unit.  And for the most part, he's in the lineup at the end of games, especially with Collins out.

 

Huerter as a starter:  31.3 min per game . . ( 12.8 ppg - 2.9 rebs - 3 ast . . . 48% FG - 41.5% 3FG - 91.3% FT . . . 17% usage rate )

Huerter as a reserve:  23.6 min per game . . ( 8.6 ppg - 3.8 rebs - 2.2 ast  . . . 40.5% FG - 23.6% 3FG ( YIKES! ) - 64.3% FT ( YIKES AGAIN! ) . . . 18.9% usage rate ) 

 

For the sake of the team, it is absolutely the right call to start Kevin over Bogi . . . but let Bogi close games.

You are looking at this as a fan. I am telling you what Bogi the player wants and how he feels completely disrespected by the Hawks. 

I mentioned before that Kevin's bench stats were so bad that putting him in as a starter couldn't help BUT make him play better because he couldn't play any worse as a bench player. Bogi is a better player than Kevin so he can thrive in a bench role. We all see that. The problem is Bogi didn't come here to be a bench  player. He didn't come here to be a backup because another player is so bad as a bench player that he has to be a bench player AGAIN after he just did that in Sacremento.

Go find Bogi's stats in February. They are eye popping. This cat should be starting. You don't hold a better player back because a lesser player can't do well as a bench player. It would be like starting Delon Wright because he does better as a starter so Trae can just be the sixth man off the bench. Sure, it helps the team so why would Trae complain?

The best players start. Period. Bogi is a better player than Kevin. Bogi's playing this month just like that awesome second half last season and there's no signs that Bogi is slowing down. Meanwhile Kevin just sits in a corner, quietly waiting for a three or committing foul after foul on defense. That can't last. You can't expect a better player to screw over his career so the team feels better about the likeable kid they gave a big extension to that isn't living up to it.

I said it before and I will say it again. Even if you don't believe me about sources (not just you here, a generic you) go back and read what Bogi said to the press about losing his starting job. He said he was fine for now to win games THIS season but they would need to address this in the summer. Full stop. That is Bogi outright saying you either start me or you trade me so I can start somewhere else.

After the money they put into Kevin I expect them to trade Bogi which depending on the trade I feel will be a mistake. When Bogi is playing like he has this month now that he's healthy he is exactly what we need next to Trae. He is aggressive without taking bad shots. He probes the defense looking for either his shot or how to create for others. His defense has improved as well. In that Cleveland game alone he had four steals. I don't even remember the last time Kevin had four steals in a game. 

 

[Diesel]

1 hour ago, Sothron said:

 

Go find Bogi's stats in February. They are eye popping. This cat should be starting. You don't hold a better player back because a lesser player can't do well as a bench player. 

 

IMO, that's not the argument to make to Bogi.  It has nothing to do with Kevin.  It has everything to do with him being a first option.  He operates better as a first option.  He won't be a first option as a starter.   He'll be either 3rd or 4th option.  So the question is would he rather be a starter and get less attempts or would he rather be a 1st option on the 2nd Unit?

 

[Mikey]

1 hour ago, Sothron said:

You are looking at this as a fan. I am telling you what Bogi the player wants and how he feels completely disrespected by the Hawks. 

I mentioned before that Kevin's bench stats were so bad that putting him in as a starter couldn't help BUT make him play better because he couldn't play any worse as a bench player. Bogi is a better player than Kevin so he can thrive in a bench role. We all see that. The problem is Bogi didn't come here to be a bench  player. He didn't come here to be a backup because another player is so bad as a bench player that he has to be a bench player AGAIN after he just did that in Sacremento.

Go find Bogi's stats in February. They are eye popping. This cat should be starting. You don't hold a better player back because a lesser player can't do well as a bench player. It would be like starting Delon Wright because he does better as a starter so Trae can just be the sixth man off the bench. Sure, it helps the team so why would Trae complain?

The best players start. Period. Bogi is a better player than Kevin. Bogi's playing this month just like that awesome second half last season and there's no signs that Bogi is slowing down. Meanwhile Kevin just sits in a corner, quietly waiting for a three or committing foul after foul on defense. That can't last. You can't expect a better player to screw over his career so the team feels better about the likeable kid they gave a big extension to that isn't living up to it.

I said it before and I will say it again. Even if you don't believe me about sources (not just you here, a generic you) go back and read what Bogi said to the press about losing his starting job. He said he was fine for now to win games THIS season but they would need to address this in the summer. Full stop. That is Bogi outright saying you either start me or you trade me so I can start somewhere else.

After the money they put into Kevin I expect them to trade Bogi which depending on the trade I feel will be a mistake. When Bogi is playing like he has this month now that he's healthy he is exactly what we need next to Trae. He is aggressive without taking bad shots. He probes the defense looking for either his shot or how to create for others. His defense has improved as well. In that Cleveland game alone he had four steals. I don't even remember the last time Kevin had four steals in a game. 

 

I agree Bogi should start but too much is made of who is the starter and who isn't. You know whats more important who is closing the games and Bogi has been closing every game since they moved him to the bench.

He has also himself said time and time again in interviews since that first one that he is okay with coming off the bench and okay with sacraficing. Hes better than kevin and should start, but he is on the court when it matters the most and hes been playing great. I don't think he requests a trade for this very reason. If they move him its cause they need his contract imo

[kg01]

I think something that's getting lost is the fact that we're not a free agent destination.

We've had some recent success that (hopefully) works to change that rep.

But if we get the rep of bait 'n switchin' dudes that've signed with us, we're basically spittin' in our own faces.

I don't think there's any issue with switching Bogd and Heurter (start v reserve) if the net effect is it calms with waters.

[JayBirdHawk]

1 hour ago, Sothron said:

The best players start. Period

Many Ginobli.  He came of the bench as the leader of the 2nd unit. He was much better than the starter in the 1st unit but the 2nd unit needed his leadership, scoring and passing. It balanced both units.

[RedDawg#8]

7 minutes ago, Mikey said:

I agree Bogi should start but too much is made of who is the starter and who isn't. You know whats more important who is closing the games and Bogi has been closing every game since they moved him to the bench.

He has also himself said time and time again in interviews since that first one that he is okay with coming off the bench and okay with sacraficing. Hes better than kevin and should start, but he is on the court when it matters the most and hes been playing great. I don't think he requests a trade for this very reason. If they move him its cause they need his contract imo

Correct. And we can look at it like this, we found out very early in the playoffs that we NEEDED Bogi to get the majority of minutes with the 2nd unit because we were getting crushed when Trae would sit. So we started him, subbed him out 1st, and then put him in with the reserves when Trae came out. 

We are basically doing the same thing now except instead of him being the 1st starter OUT he is 1st the reserve in, 6th man. The functional application is the same, we need him to carry the offense for the bench, which Kev is not as capable of doing because he lacks aggression and consistency.

Championship teams have typically won 1 of 2 ways.  They have elite players and stagger their minutes so that they can all eat and there is 48 minutes of pressure on the opponent where they have to deal with a star player on the court. Boston does this with Tatum and Brown, LAC did this with PG13 and Kawhi, Brooklyn was doing this before KD went out, etc...

The 2nd way is that there is a 6th man who is clearly better than the player in front of him, but they are versatile and have the ability to lead an entire 2nd unit on their own, while being secondary pieces when they share the floor with the starters. OKC did this with Harden, SAS did this with Ginobali, etc... those guys were the 2nd or 3rd best player on the team but came off the bench by design.

Bogi is upset, sure. But he is getting better production as the 6th man than he was starting. The bench went from a weakness to a strength with him as a 6th man. 

Should Nate give Kev a shorter leash some games and put Bogi in sooner? Yes, absolutely. If Bogi is hot and Kev isn't, leave him in and let him cook. But there is nothing negative or disrespectful about coming off the bench as a focal point regardless of what the plan was over a year ago.

[RedDawg#8]

17 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

Many Ginobli.  He came of the bench as the leader of the 2nd unit. He was much better than the starter in the 1st unit but the 2nd unit needed his leadership, scoring and passing. It balanced both units.

beat me to it

[sturt]

26 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

Ginobli

The dream of Spurs East lives! (Again.)

 

[FrankWhite]

I was at this game. A few observations:

1. It’s fun to see and hear the opposing team’s fans oohing and ahing for one of our guys. When garbage time hit, the guy behind me (Magic fan) said, “Let’s go. They’re not gonna put Trae back in the game.”

2. I’m not a Capela hater, but the difference between his (lack of) touch around the rim and Okongwu’s is insane.

3. Count me among those baffled that Bogi doesn’t want to come off the bench. It’s the perfect role for him, he’s thriving in it, and it makes our second unit lethal.