Official Game Thread: Hawks at Pistons

[Diesel]

Alright...  Transition defense breakdown time.  I need some Xs and Os help here.

https://www.nba.com/stats/events/?CFID=&CFPARAMS=&ContextMeasure=FGM&EndPeriod=0&EndRange=31800&GameID=0022100968&PlayerID=202709&RangeType=0&Season=2021-22&SeasonType=Regular Season&StartPeriod=0&StartRange=0&TeamID=1610612765&flag=3&sct=plot&section=game

Video number 2... This is how Corey Joseph scored.

It was 4 on 4 with Cade leading their break...

1.   JC calls out for somebody to pick up #41.
2. Delon picks up #41 and #41 goes down underneath and out to the 3 pt line (a clear out). 
3. JC picks up #9 who stops at the arc of the key.
4. Hunter picks up Cade who stop at the FT Line area. 
5. Clint is trailing Joseph because Clint was in back of the play..
6. Delon sees Clint Trailing Joseph stops following #41 through and tries to get back.  
7. Cade hit Joseph with the pass at the three point line. 
8. Joseph drives in with an uncontested lay in. 

Watching this play...  Who is at Fault?

Was Hunter supposed to step over?

Was JC supposed to fall back?

Is it Trae's faul?

What does the squawk say???

 

[kg01]

Man you say all them words but the problem is pretty simple.  We lose our man on defense constantly.  Guys are literally, constantly losing their man.  If their mark does any kind of off-ball movement, we're toast.  Burnt.  To a crisp. Happens to the Mitten.  Happens to Heurter.  Happens to Bogd.  Happens to Collins.  Doesn't really happen much to Hunter but he just fouls 'em anyways, which is a different issue.

The only one who's consistently aware defensively is Wright.  The only one.  Watch him move on defense.  He's constantly aware.  He's consistently moving to help the helper.  Shiii, half the time he's moving to anticipate the play.  It's really impressive.

Then, by contrast, everybody else is watchin' the ball.  Like this is a 6th grade church league game where everybody watches the one kid that can string dribbles together.  I mean, they are constantly in catch-up mode after a pass is made.  You can tangibly see their brains go, "Ohsh*twhere'smuhman?"  That's all an NBA player needs to load n' fire.  Hence the constant 3pt barrages we face.

DAFUQ R THE COACHES DOING IN PRACTICES?!

[Diesel]

7 minutes ago, kg01 said:

 

The only one who's consistently aware defensively is Wright.  The only one.  Watch him move on defense.  He's constantly aware.  He's consistently moving to help the helper.  Shiii, half the time he's moving to anticipate the play.  It's really impressive.

 

Yeah, I have noticed this too.  He anticipates... I just showed a video where he saw Clint getting beat in Transition before the pass was made and he broke off to try to stop it but was a sec too late.   He is a defensive Svante out there... playing with defensive middle schoolers.. and Clint. 

 

[Sothron]

1 hour ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

He was definitely not the best player in the game. 2 - 11 from 3. Getting cooked on defense. Committed the bad foul at the end, due to getting cooked.  Good on his drives.  Good with his secondary passing.

That was not a foul. That was a joke call. There's no way anyone that doesn't have an agenda that watches that game isn't coming away saying Bogi had the best game in it. 

[kg01]

15 minutes ago, Sothron said:

That was not a foul. That was a joke call. There's no way anyone that doesn't have an agenda that watches that game isn't coming away saying Bogi had the best game in it. 

Well, let's give them credit.  It was a bad game all around so it's easy to miss who the best player on the court was.  In fairness also, Collins was it initially but we decided to let DET off the hook I guess.

[Spud2nique]

1 hour ago, Diesel said:

I want

It ain’t bout you den either .. 

[Spud2nique]

1 hour ago, kg01 said:

Man you say all them words but the problem is pretty simple.  We lose our man on defense constantly.  Guys are literally, constantly losing their man.  If their mark does any kind of off-ball movement, we're toast.  Burnt.  To a crisp. Happens to the Mitten.  Happens to Heurter.  Happens to Bogd.  Happens to Collins.  Doesn't really happen much to Hunter but he just fouls 'em anyways, which is a different issue.

The only one who's consistently aware defensively is Wright.  The only one.  Watch him move on defense.  He's constantly aware.  He's consistently moving to help the helper.  Shiii, half the time he's moving to anticipate the play.  It's really impressive.

Then, by contrast, everybody else is watchin' the ball.  Like this is a 6th grade church league game where everybody watches the one kid that can string dribbles together.  I mean, they are constantly in catch-up mode after a pass is made.  You can tangibly see their brains go, "Ohsh*twhere'smuhman?"  That's all an NBA player needs to load n' fire.  Hence the constant 3pt barrages we face.

DAFUQ R THE COACHES DOING IN PRACTICES?!

Here I’ll make it simpler.

Defend your man. Move the ball. 
 

Doing those alone would have beat the Pistons. I’m sorry I can’t get over a Killian Hayes at this stage beating us or a Cunningham also.

[Diesel]

30 minutes ago, Spud2nique said:

Here I’ll make it simpler.

Defend your man. Move the ball. 
 

Doing those alone would have beat the Pistons. I’m sorry I can’t get over a Killian Hayes at this stage beating us or a Cunningham also.

Did any Piston other than Siddiq Bey shoot under 50%?

[Spud2nique]

Just now, Diesel said:

Did any Piston other than Siddiq Bey shoot under 50%?

Hold up I didn’t check the stats I just watched the game, why do you ask?

[terrell]

1 hour ago, Spud2nique said:

Here I’ll make it simpler.

Defend your man. Move the ball. 
 

Doing those alone would have beat the Pistons. I’m sorry I can’t get over a Killian Hayes at this stage beating us or a Cunningham also.

We need an adult team leader, a fiery- coach, and some dog DNA..................

We lack all 3..........................

[AHF]

19 hours ago, benhillboy said:

 

I wonder if Schlenk knows the winning percentage when Trae starts (.433)  isn’t much different than when he doesn’t play (.416), playoffs included in both). If you like rounding numbers that’s a 1% increase.  I’ve been saying for years his impact is nearly negligible. Historic skill set, below average gamesman.

Both of their years here are numbered (I hope this doesn’t turn into an awfully managed Lilliard situation) but Schlenk’s much shorter once Traes contract kicks in.

The past two seasons (when we've tried to win) the team has been 8-8 without Trae and 74-64 with him.  

Ja Morant's Grizzlies are 17-6 without him and 66-54 with him.  

So the Hawks have won 53.6% of games with Trae and 50% without him while the Grizzlies have won 55% of games with Morant and 73.9% without him.

By your own logic, you must think Morant is absolute garbage.

[AHF]

Having caught up on this thread, I am seeing a recurrence of people going after other posters personally - whether they are haters, etc.  Again, please refrain from focusing on the poster and whether anyone has an agenda and just talk about the thread topic.  

[JayBirdHawk]

4 hours ago, kg01 said:

Man you say all them words but the problem is pretty simple.  We lose our man on defense constantly.  Guys are literally, constantly losing their man.  If their mark does any kind of off-ball movement, we're toast.  Burnt.  To a crisp. Happens to the Mitten.  Happens to Heurter.  Happens to Bogd.  Happens to Collins.  Doesn't really happen much to Hunter but he just fouls 'em anyways, which is a different issue.

The only one who's consistently aware defensively is Wright.  The only one.  Watch him move on defense.  He's constantly aware.  He's consistently moving to help the helper.  Shiii, half the time he's moving to anticipate the play.  It's really impressive.

Then, by contrast, everybody else is watchin' the ball.  Like this is a 6th grade church league game where everybody watches the one kid that can string dribbles together.  I mean, they are constantly in catch-up mode after a pass is made.  You can tangibly see their brains go, "Ohsh*twhere'smuhman?"  That's all an NBA player needs to load n' fire.  Hence the constant 3pt barrages we face.

DAFUQ R THE COACHES DOING IN PRACTICES?!

2 hours ago, Spud2nique said:

Here I’ll make it simpler.

Defend your man. Move the ball. 
 

Doing those alone would have beat the Pistons. I’m sorry I can’t get over a Killian Hayes at this stage beating us or a Cunningham also.

 

I keep saying, guard your guy, look for help second instead of seeking help....and again, stop digging so deep in the paint, we don't have size, speed or anticipation to do that.

Like the CageyOne said - we are playing reactionary defense and not anticipatory.

[Plainview1981]

20 hours ago, gHost83 said:

Agree. We gotta chill with the EXCUSES. This team played like ass tonight and fumbled the bag 48 times. Would be nice to see someone hole them accountable.

Some people might say that Detroit has been streaking and beating some good teams that took them lightly.

The Hawks aren't good enough that they can afford to take other teams lightly. So that defense doesn't really help them.

[Plainview1981]

20 hours ago, Diesel said:

Yeah.. Cleveland, Boston, Charlotte, Utah,  Miami,  Milwaukee and Toronto fans are saying the same Damn thing. 

The Hawks aren't good enough that they can afford to take other teams lightly. So that defense doesn't really help them.

It seems like there has been a number of times where the Hawks pull within a game or 2 of .500 and then they slip and fall back down the ladder.

They lack a fearless slasher 2nd option kind of player. They lack play makers outside of Trae... They aren't good defensely... They aren't tough and they lack a sense of urgency. Their game plan is very basic.

This team just isn't that good.

[benhillboy]

1 hour ago, AHF said:

The past two seasons (when we've tried to win) the team has been 8-8 without Trae and 74-64 with him.  

Ja Morant's Grizzlies are 17-6 without him and 66-54 with him.  

So the Hawks have won 53.6% of games with Trae and 50% without him while the Grizzlies have won 55% of games with Morant and 73.9% without him.

By your own logic, you must think Morant is absolute garbage.

I’m no Ja Morant fan.  Exciting and entertaining, sure.  I’m anxious to see how his dribble driving plays in the playoffs. But he can’t shoot and has a negative career rating same as Trae.  I believe Slo Mo’s exceptional IQ and  Jones’ PG mastery drives winning more than he does.  I’m always yapping about Delon’s outstanding assist to turn and defensive plays per foul, Jones bests him in both.  And I’ve always been a  Steven Adams guy so there’s that.  I know nothing of Bane but he has the exact same rating as Ja.

Trae’s closest ratings mates (117 to 117) this season are Norman Powell, Joe Ingles, Malcolm Brogdon, Rodney McGruder, and Coby stinking White.  

At a 33% usage at 33 minutes per for his career driving a .431 winning percentage in games started simply isn’t acceptable even if the franchise wasn’t “trying to win.”  Especially this season when the average draft position of the surrounding players is 19th and the average age is closest to the median for the league at 26.4, this factoring in Lou’s old second round drafted ass.  Schlenk has done a very good job building it’s just I’ve had an issue with the foundation ever since the first half of Trae’s rookie season he was god awful.

Long story short Trae just needs to get off the damn ball some.  LeBron James and Michael Jordan had to be forced by competent coaches to learn and accept this after they put up historic numbers and earned maxes.  Problem is Trae has no value off the ball nor defending on it.  
Those type of players who dominate the ball just end up getting traded for bad packages and getting people fired.  See Damian Lilliard, Carmelo Anthony, Russell Westbrick, James Harden.  But they’re all 75th Anniversary players because numbers.  Only one great flash in the playoffs between them.  Nevermind most of their teammates hate their guts.

The 24 game sample size without him isn’t ideal, I give him a lot of credit for availability, but the +.017 winning clip difference just clearly illustrates his impact in relation to his production and upcoming salary just doesn’t add up at all.  Gearon is gonna grow tired quickly of paying a premium for a .431 clip and 26th ranking in people coming through the turnstiles.  

Truly great players have a sixth sense on how to maximize their teammates strengths and minimize their weaknesses, especially PGs.  Spamming PNR and iso at the top so you can reach your 30 and 10 does that not.  We’ve seen it gets us beat by inferior teams too much.  Why did Cade look like the 4 year guy and Trae the rook?

[NBASupes]

2 hours ago, AHF said:

Having caught up on this thread, I am seeing a recurrence of people going after other posters personally - whether they are haters, etc.  Again, please refrain from focusing on the poster and whether anyone has an agenda and just talk about the thread topic.  

Losses on this site are always AHF has to mod moments. We don't handle losing well

44 minutes ago, benhillboy said:

I’m no Ja Morant fan.  Exciting and entertaining, sure.  I’m anxious to see how his dribble driving plays in the playoffs. But he can’t shoot and has a negative career rating same as Trae.  I believe Slo Mo’s exceptional IQ and  Jones’ PG mastery drives winning more than he does.  I’m always yapping about Delon’s outstanding assist to turn and defensive plays per foul, Jones bests him in both.  And I’ve always been a  Steven Adams guy so there’s that.  I know nothing of Bane but he has the exact same rating as Ja.

Trae’s closest ratings mates (117 to 117) this season are Norman Powell, Joe Ingles, Malcolm Brogdon, Rodney McGruder, and Coby stinking White.  

At a 33% usage at 33 minutes per for his career driving a .431 winning percentage in games started simply isn’t acceptable even if the franchise wasn’t “trying to win.”  Especially this season when the average draft position of the surrounding players is 19th and the average age is closest to the median for the league at 26.4, this factoring in Lou’s old second round drafted ass.  Schlenk has done a very good job building it’s just I’ve had an issue with the foundation ever since the first half of Trae’s rookie season he was god awful.

Long story short Trae just needs to get off the damn ball some.  LeBron James and Michael Jordan had to be forced by competent coaches to learn and accept this after they put up historic numbers and earned maxes.  Problem is Trae has no value off the ball nor defending on it.  
Those type of players who dominate the ball just end up getting traded for bad packages and getting people fired.  See Damian Lilliard, Carmelo Anthony, Russell Westbrick, James Harden.  But they’re all 75th Anniversary players because numbers.  Only one great flash in the playoffs between them.  Nevermind most of their teammates hate their guts.

The 24 game sample size without him isn’t ideal, I give him a lot of credit for availability, but the +.017 winning clip difference just clearly illustrates his impact in relation to his production and upcoming salary just doesn’t add up at all.  Gearon is gonna grow tired quickly of paying a premium for a .431 clip and 26th ranking in people coming through the turnstiles.  

Truly great players have a sixth sense on how to maximize their teammates strengths and minimize their weaknesses, especially PGs.  Spamming PNR and iso at the top so you can reach your 30 and 10 does that not.  We’ve seen it gets us beat by inferior teams too much.  Why did Cade look like the 4 year guy and Trae the rook?

He's worth 30 wins for a reason. People don't want to hear it tho

 

We gotta get floor raisers. Trae ain't it. He's a roof raiser. We need a Draymond Green or Scottie Pippen and those are extremely hard to find. Scottie Barnes would be such a nice piece for us.

Edited March 9, 2022 by NBASupes

[Diesel]

3 hours ago, terrell said:

We need an adult team leader, a fiery- coach, and some dog DNA..................

We lack all 3..........................

I don't know if we know that.  We don't know these players and we don't know how they would respond to a "Fiery Coach"...   This generation is a little different and many of them would probably just go all Ben Simmons when a fiery coach is being fiery.   I say we just start with More offensive plays.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

6 hours ago, Sothron said:

That was not a foul. That was a joke call. There's no way anyone that doesn't have an agenda that watches that game isn't coming away saying Bogi had the best game in it. 

 

How can you have the best game when you shoot 2-11 from 3, and you're getting absolutely cooked on defense? 

He has a chance to grab a defensive rebound when we were up by 1, but taps at the ball instead of grabbing it, and then fouls Cunningham on an "and 1".  Plus he fouled out because he committed a whopping 4 fouls in the 4th quarter.

As for the last foul, it was a stupid play.  He's getting torched all game, but he chooses THAT TIME to try to deny Cunningham the ball with 1.2 seconds left?  He simply had time to only catch, take maybe 1 dribble, and shoot it.  The one thing you can't do, is foul him ( or even give the perception of a foul ) 22 feet from the basket.

 

If Bogi had the best game for the Hawks, his grade is a C for that game.   

B- for offense . .  D+ for defense.

 

[TheNorthCydeRises]

4 hours ago, terrell said:

We need an adult team leader, a fiery- coach, and some dog DNA..................

We lack all 3..........................

 

100% co-sign on this. 

As much as I made fun of Solo "The Knife" on the court, I guess he was the adult team leader.  Nate is definitely not a fiery coach, and even when he does get fired up, no one believes it.  And we definitely lack "dog DNA". This is a very soft team, which is also why we're a bad defensive team.