The Per 36s....

[Diesel]

It's interesting when you look at our team per 36.

I have never been a big believer in per 36 because you have to do it for 36 minutes and this projection aint it.. BUT it's interesting to look at it...to start...

points per 36..

Rk		Age	G	GS	MP	FG	FGA	FG%	3P	3PA	3P%	2P	2PA	2P%	FT	FTA	FT%	ORB	DRB	TRB	AST	STL	BLK	TOV	PF	PTS ▼
1	Trae Young	23	61	61	2119	9.6	21.1	.455	3.0	8.0	.378	6.6	13.2	.501	6.6	7.3	.894	0.7	3.3	4.0	9.8	1.0	0.1	4.1	1.7	28.8
2	Cameron Oliver	25	2	0	43	8.4	12.6	.667	0.8	2.5	.333	7.5	10.0	.750	1.7	2.5	.667	1.7	3.3	5.0	2.5	0.8	0.8	0.0	4.2	19.3
3	John Collins	24	54	53	1663	7.3	13.9	.526	1.4	3.8	.364	6.0	10.1	.588	2.9	3.7	.793	2.0	7.1	9.1	2.1	0.7	1.2	1.3	3.6	19.0
4	Cam Reddish	22	34	7	797	6.2	15.5	.402	2.6	6.9	.379	3.6	8.6	.421	3.3	3.6	.900	0.9	2.9	3.8	1.7	1.6	0.5	2.0	2.0	18.3
5	Bogdan Bogdanović	29	48	27	1416	6.3	14.6	.435	3.1	8.5	.358	3.3	6.1	.542	1.5	1.8	.829	0.5	4.4	4.9	3.8	1.2	0.3	1.4	2.5	17.2
6	Lou Williams	35	46	0	668	5.9	14.7	.404	1.7	4.8	.360	4.2	9.9	.426	2.9	3.3	.871	0.7	3.1	3.8	4.8	1.1	0.2	1.8	2.3	16.5
7	Danilo Gallinari	33	55	9	1345	5.2	12.3	.420	2.4	6.2	.388	2.8	6.1	.452	3.3	3.7	.899	0.8	6.0	6.7	2.0	0.7	0.3	0.8	2.2	16.1
8	De'Andre Hunter	24	38	37	1124	5.8	12.8	.450	1.6	4.4	.375	4.1	8.5	.489	2.8	3.7	.752	0.6	3.3	3.9	1.5	0.8	0.4	1.6	3.8	16.0
9	Jalen Johnson	20	16	0	68	5.8	11.6	.500	1.6	4.2	.375	4.2	7.4	.571	2.1	3.2	.667	0.0	9.0	9.0	0.5	0.0	0.5	2.1	1.6	15.4
10	Onyeka Okongwu	21	32	6	667	6.0	8.4	.716	0.0	0.0		6.0	8.4	.716	2.9	3.9	.750	3.9	5.4	9.3	1.9	1.0	2.3	1.8	5.4	14.9
11	Gorgui Dieng	32	40	3	356	5.1	10.5	.481	2.6	6.1	.433	2.4	4.4	.545	1.7	2.4	.708	3.2	8.6	11.8	3.3	1.1	1.3	2.0	5.0	14.5
12	Kevin Huerter	23	58	44	1692	5.7	12.3	.460	2.4	6.4	.383	3.2	5.9	.543	0.7	0.8	.795	0.6	3.5	4.0	3.4	0.8	0.4	1.5	3.0	14.4
13	Clint Capela	27	58	57	1614	6.2	10.3	.602	0.0	0.0	.000	6.2	10.3	.603	1.4	3.1	.460	4.9	10.6	15.5	1.7	0.8	1.8	0.8	2.9	13.8
14	Skylar Mays	24	24	5	210	5.5	10.6	.516	1.4	4.3	.320	4.1	6.3	.649	1.4	1.5	.889	0.9	3.4	4.3	2.7	1.2	0.0	1.7	1.4	13.7
15	Malcolm Hill	26	3	0	46	3.9	6.3	.625	2.3	3.9	.600	1.6	2.3	.667	3.1	3.1	1.000	1.6	3.1	4.7	0.8	3.1	0.8	0.0	5.5	13.3
16	Chaundee Brown Jr.	23	3	2	83	3.9	10.8	.360	2.6	6.5	.400	1.3	4.3	.300	2.2	2.6	.833	0.4	5.6	6.1	1.7	0.9	0.0	0.0	3.0	12.6
17	Timothé Luwawu-Cabarrot	26	38	12	455	4.0	10.3	.385	2.5	6.9	.368	1.4	3.4	.419	1.3	1.6	.850	0.7	3.2	3.9	2.1	1.0	0.3	1.0	3.6	11.8
18	Kevin Knox	22	10	0	69	3.7	12.0	.304	0.5	6.3	.083	3.1	5.7	.545	2.1	3.1	.667	1.6	5.2	6.8	2.6	0.5	0.0	1.0	3.7	9.9
19	Wes Iwundu	27	3	1	82	3.5	7.9	.444	1.3	2.2	.600	2.2	5.7	.385	1.3	1.8	.750	1.3	4.4	5.7	0.0	0.4	0.0	0.4	3.5	9.7
20	Delon Wright	29	61	5	1092	3.1	7.0	.443	1.0	2.9	.356	2.1	4.1	.504	1.4	1.6	.837	1.3	4.4	5.7	4.7	2.1	0.4	1.3	1.4	8.6
21	Sharife Cooper	20	11	0	35	3.1	14.4	.214	1.0	6.2	.167	2.1	8.2	.250	0.0	0.0		0.0	5.1	5.1	5.1	0.0	0.0	5.1	1.0	7.2
22	Lance Stephenson	31	6	0	70	2.6	6.7	.385	0.0	1.5	.000	2.6	5.1	.500	0.5	1.0	.500	0.5	7.2	7.7	5.7	0.0	0.0	2.1	4.1	5.7
23	Solomon Hill	30	13	1	139	0.8	5.2	.150	0.5	3.4	.154	0.3	1.8	.143	0.0	0.0		1.6	4.4	6.0	3.1	1.0	0.5	0.3	4.1	2.1
24	Cat Barber	27	3	0	13	0.0	11.1	.000	0.0	0.0		0.0	11.1	.000	0.0	11.1	.000	2.8	5.5	8.3	8.3	0.0	0.0	2.8	2.8	0.0

 

Per 36, you can make a case for Jalen...  But then you'd have to explain why Kevin is so far back.

Next... Rebounds...

Rk		Age	G	GS	MP	FG	FGA	FG%	3P	3PA	3P%	2P	2PA	2P%	FT	FTA	FT%	ORB	DRB	TRB ▼	AST	STL	BLK	TOV	PF	PTS
1	Clint Capela	27	58	57	1614	6.2	10.3	.602	0.0	0.0	.000	6.2	10.3	.603	1.4	3.1	.460	4.9	10.6	15.5	1.7	0.8	1.8	0.8	2.9	13.8
2	Gorgui Dieng	32	40	3	356	5.1	10.5	.481	2.6	6.1	.433	2.4	4.4	.545	1.7	2.4	.708	3.2	8.6	11.8	3.3	1.1	1.3	2.0	5.0	14.5
3	Onyeka Okongwu	21	32	6	667	6.0	8.4	.716	0.0	0.0		6.0	8.4	.716	2.9	3.9	.750	3.9	5.4	9.3	1.9	1.0	2.3	1.8	5.4	14.9
4	John Collins	24	54	53	1663	7.3	13.9	.526	1.4	3.8	.364	6.0	10.1	.588	2.9	3.7	.793	2.0	7.1	9.1	2.1	0.7	1.2	1.3	3.6	19.0
5	Jalen Johnson	20	16	0	68	5.8	11.6	.500	1.6	4.2	.375	4.2	7.4	.571	2.1	3.2	.667	0.0	9.0	9.0	0.5	0.0	0.5	2.1	1.6	15.4
6	Cat Barber	27	3	0	13	0.0	11.1	.000	0.0	0.0		0.0	11.1	.000	0.0	11.1	.000	2.8	5.5	8.3	8.3	0.0	0.0	2.8	2.8	0.0
7	Lance Stephenson	31	6	0	70	2.6	6.7	.385	0.0	1.5	.000	2.6	5.1	.500	0.5	1.0	.500	0.5	7.2	7.7	5.7	0.0	0.0	2.1	4.1	5.7
8	Kevin Knox	22	10	0	69	3.7	12.0	.304	0.5	6.3	.083	3.1	5.7	.545	2.1	3.1	.667	1.6	5.2	6.8	2.6	0.5	0.0	1.0	3.7	9.9
9	Danilo Gallinari	33	55	9	1345	5.2	12.3	.420	2.4	6.2	.388	2.8	6.1	.452	3.3	3.7	.899	0.8	6.0	6.7	2.0	0.7	0.3	0.8	2.2	16.1
10	Chaundee Brown Jr.	23	3	2	83	3.9	10.8	.360	2.6	6.5	.400	1.3	4.3	.300	2.2	2.6	.833	0.4	5.6	6.1	1.7	0.9	0.0	0.0	3.0	12.6
11	Solomon Hill	30	13	1	139	0.8	5.2	.150	0.5	3.4	.154	0.3	1.8	.143	0.0	0.0		1.6	4.4	6.0	3.1	1.0	0.5	0.3	4.1	2.1
12	Wes Iwundu	27	3	1	82	3.5	7.9	.444	1.3	2.2	.600	2.2	5.7	.385	1.3	1.8	.750	1.3	4.4	5.7	0.0	0.4	0.0	0.4	3.5	9.7
13	Delon Wright	29	61	5	1092	3.1	7.0	.443	1.0	2.9	.356	2.1	4.1	.504	1.4	1.6	.837	1.3	4.4	5.7	4.7	2.1	0.4	1.3	1.4	8.6
14	Sharife Cooper	20	11	0	35	3.1	14.4	.214	1.0	6.2	.167	2.1	8.2	.250	0.0	0.0		0.0	5.1	5.1	5.1	0.0	0.0	5.1	1.0	7.2
15	Cameron Oliver	25	2	0	43	8.4	12.6	.667	0.8	2.5	.333	7.5	10.0	.750	1.7	2.5	.667	1.7	3.3	5.0	2.5	0.8	0.8	0.0	4.2	19.3
16	Bogdan Bogdanović	29	48	27	1416	6.3	14.6	.435	3.1	8.5	.358	3.3	6.1	.542	1.5	1.8	.829	0.5	4.4	4.9	3.8	1.2	0.3	1.4	2.5	17.2
17	Malcolm Hill	26	3	0	46	3.9	6.3	.625	2.3	3.9	.600	1.6	2.3	.667	3.1	3.1	1.000	1.6	3.1	4.7	0.8	3.1	0.8	0.0	5.5	13.3
18	Skylar Mays	24	24	5	210	5.5	10.6	.516	1.4	4.3	.320	4.1	6.3	.649	1.4	1.5	.889	0.9	3.4	4.3	2.7	1.2	0.0	1.7	1.4	13.7
19	Trae Young	23	61	61	2119	9.6	21.1	.455	3.0	8.0	.378	6.6	13.2	.501	6.6	7.3	.894	0.7	3.3	4.0	9.8	1.0	0.1	4.1	1.7	28.8
20	Kevin Huerter	23	58	44	1692	5.7	12.3	.460	2.4	6.4	.383	3.2	5.9	.543	0.7	0.8	.795	0.6	3.5	4.0	3.4	0.8	0.4	1.5	3.0	14.4
21	De'Andre Hunter	24	38	37	1124	5.8	12.8	.450	1.6	4.4	.375	4.1	8.5	.489	2.8	3.7	.752	0.6	3.3	3.9	1.5	0.8	0.4	1.6	3.8	16.0
22	Timothé Luwawu-Cabarrot	26	38	12	455	4.0	10.3	.385	2.5	6.9	.368	1.4	3.4	.419	1.3	1.6	.850	0.7	3.2	3.9	2.1	1.0	0.3	1.0	3.6	11.8
23	Cam Reddish	22	34	7	797	6.2	15.5	.402	2.6	6.9	.379	3.6	8.6	.421	3.3	3.6	.900	0.9	2.9	3.8	1.7	1.6	0.5	2.0	2.0	18.3
24	Lou Williams	35	46	0	668	5.9	14.7	.404	1.7	4.8	.360	4.2	9.9	.426	2.9	3.3	.871	0.7	3.1	3.8	4.8	1.1	0.2	1.8

 

Kevin, Deandre, and Cam are 20, 21, and 23 respectively....  We've had 10 dayers more active on the boards... per 36.

Finally Assists per 36...

k		Age	G	GS	MP	FG	FGA	FG%	3P	3PA	3P%	2P	2PA	2P%	FT	FTA	FT%	ORB	DRB	TRB	AST ▼	STL	BLK	TOV	PF	PTS
1	Trae Young	23	61	61	2119	9.6	21.1	.455	3.0	8.0	.378	6.6	13.2	.501	6.6	7.3	.894	0.7	3.3	4.0	9.8	1.0	0.1	4.1	1.7	28.8
2	Cat Barber	27	3	0	13	0.0	11.1	.000	0.0	0.0		0.0	11.1	.000	0.0	11.1	.000	2.8	5.5	8.3	8.3	0.0	0.0	2.8	2.8	0.0
3	Lance Stephenson	31	6	0	70	2.6	6.7	.385	0.0	1.5	.000	2.6	5.1	.500	0.5	1.0	.500	0.5	7.2	7.7	5.7	0.0	0.0	2.1	4.1	5.7
4	Sharife Cooper	20	11	0	35	3.1	14.4	.214	1.0	6.2	.167	2.1	8.2	.250	0.0	0.0		0.0	5.1	5.1	5.1	0.0	0.0	5.1	1.0	7.2
5	Lou Williams	35	46	0	668	5.9	14.7	.404	1.7	4.8	.360	4.2	9.9	.426	2.9	3.3	.871	0.7	3.1	3.8	4.8	1.1	0.2	1.8	2.3	16.5
6	Delon Wright	29	61	5	1092	3.1	7.0	.443	1.0	2.9	.356	2.1	4.1	.504	1.4	1.6	.837	1.3	4.4	5.7	4.7	2.1	0.4	1.3	1.4	8.6
7	Bogdan Bogdanović	29	48	27	1416	6.3	14.6	.435	3.1	8.5	.358	3.3	6.1	.542	1.5	1.8	.829	0.5	4.4	4.9	3.8	1.2	0.3	1.4	2.5	17.2
8	Kevin Huerter	23	58	44	1692	5.7	12.3	.460	2.4	6.4	.383	3.2	5.9	.543	0.7	0.8	.795	0.6	3.5	4.0	3.4	0.8	0.4	1.5	3.0	14.4
9	Gorgui Dieng	32	40	3	356	5.1	10.5	.481	2.6	6.1	.433	2.4	4.4	.545	1.7	2.4	.708	3.2	8.6	11.8	3.3	1.1	1.3	2.0	5.0	14.5
10	Solomon Hill	30	13	1	139	0.8	5.2	.150	0.5	3.4	.154	0.3	1.8	.143	0.0	0.0		1.6	4.4	6.0	3.1	1.0	0.5	0.3	4.1	2.1
11	Skylar Mays	24	24	5	210	5.5	10.6	.516	1.4	4.3	.320	4.1	6.3	.649	1.4	1.5	.889	0.9	3.4	4.3	2.7	1.2	0.0	1.7	1.4	13.7
12	Kevin Knox	22	10	0	69	3.7	12.0	.304	0.5	6.3	.083	3.1	5.7	.545	2.1	3.1	.667	1.6	5.2	6.8	2.6	0.5	0.0	1.0	3.7	9.9
13	Cameron Oliver	25	2	0	43	8.4	12.6	.667	0.8	2.5	.333	7.5	10.0	.750	1.7	2.5	.667	1.7	3.3	5.0	2.5	0.8	0.8	0.0	4.2	19.3
14	John Collins	24	54	53	1663	7.3	13.9	.526	1.4	3.8	.364	6.0	10.1	.588	2.9	3.7	.793	2.0	7.1	9.1	2.1	0.7	1.2	1.3	3.6	19.0
15	Timothé Luwawu-Cabarrot	26	38	12	455	4.0	10.3	.385	2.5	6.9	.368	1.4	3.4	.419	1.3	1.6	.850	0.7	3.2	3.9	2.1	1.0	0.3	1.0	3.6	11.8
16	Danilo Gallinari	33	55	9	1345	5.2	12.3	.420	2.4	6.2	.388	2.8	6.1	.452	3.3	3.7	.899	0.8	6.0	6.7	2.0	0.7	0.3	0.8	2.2	16.1
17	Onyeka Okongwu	21	32	6	667	6.0	8.4	.716	0.0	0.0		6.0	8.4	.716	2.9	3.9	.750	3.9	5.4	9.3	1.9	1.0	2.3	1.8	5.4	14.9
18	Clint Capela	27	58	57	1614	6.2	10.3	.602	0.0	0.0	.000	6.2	10.3	.603	1.4	3.1	.460	4.9	10.6	15.5	1.7	0.8	1.8	0.8	2.9	13.8
19	Chaundee Brown Jr.	23	3	2	83	3.9	10.8	.360	2.6	6.5	.400	1.3	4.3	.300	2.2	2.6	.833	0.4	5.6	6.1	1.7	0.9	0.0	0.0	3.0	12.6
20	Cam Reddish	22	34	7	797	6.2	15.5	.402	2.6	6.9	.379	3.6	8.6	.421	3.3	3.6	.900	0.9	2.9	3.8	1.7	1.6	0.5	2.0	2.0	18.3
21	De'Andre Hunter	24	38	37	1124	5.8	12.8	.450	1.6	4.4	.375	4.1	8.5	.489	2.8	3.7	.752	0.6	3.3	3.9	1.5	0.8	0.4	1.6	3.8	16.0
22	Malcolm Hill	26	3	0	46	3.9	6.3	.625	2.3	3.9	.600	1.6	2.3	.667	3.1	3.1	1.000	1.6	3.1	4.7	0.8	3.1	0.8	0.0	5.5	13.3
23	Jalen Johnson	20	16	0	68	5.8	11.6	.500	1.6	4.2	.375	4.2	7.4	.571	2.1	3.2	.667	0.0	9.0	9.0	0.5	0.0	0.5	2.1	1.6	15.4
24	Wes Iwundu	27	3	1	82	3.5	7.9	.444	1.3	2.2	.600	2.2	5.7	.385	1.3	1.8	.750	1.3	4.4	5.7	0.0	0.4	0.0	0.4	3.5

Trae is exactly where he's supposed to be... a top of the team..

BUT

How did Clint get more ap36 than Hunter and Cam.   This wouldn't be so big of a problem but Hunter plays more mpg than Clint..  ~30 to 27...  That means that these per 36 are closer in line to what is expected.  Does this suggest that Hunter is a Black Hole?  Is this the offensive expectation of the position?  I mean, Nate did coach Playoff P.   How does Playoff P and Hunter stack up?

k	Player	Season	Age	G	GS	MP	FG	FGA	FG%	3P	3PA	3P%	2P	2PA	2P%	FT	FTA	FT%	ORB	DRB	TRB	AST	STL	BLK	TOV	PF	PTS
1	Paul George	2016-17	26	75	75	2689	8.3	18.0	.461	2.6	6.6	.393	5.7	11.4	.501	4.5	5.0	.898	0.8	5.8	6.6	3.4	1.6	0.4	2.9	2.8	23.8
2	De'Andre Hunter	2021-22	24	38	37	1124	5.8	12.8	.450	1.6	4.4	.375	4.1	8.5	.489	2.8	3.7	.752	0.6	3.3	3.9	1.5	0.8	0.4	1.6	3.8	1

In comparison, Playoff P was almost 3 times the passer as Hunter.   But Playoff P is a different player.  Allstar type..

What about TJ Warren... Let's see:

Rk	Player	Season	Age	G	GS	MP	FG	FGA	FG%	3P	3PA	3P%	2P	2PA	2P%	FT	FTA	FT%	ORB	DRB	TRB	AST	STL	BLK	TOV	PF	PTS
1	De'Andre Hunter	2021-22	24	38	37	1124	5.8	12.8	.450	1.6	4.4	.375	4.1	8.5	.489	2.8	3.7	.752	0.6	3.3	3.9	1.5	0.8	0.4	1.6	3.8	16.0
2	T.J. Warren	2018-19	25	43	36	1360	7.9	16.2	.486	2.0	4.8	.428	5.8	11.4	.510	2.7	3.3	.815	0.8	3.8	4.6	1.7	1.4	0.8	1.4	3.2	20.4

 

Aside from being a better scorer than Hunter... the thing that stands out is assists.  I would say that the assists are nearly the same.  This suggests that in the Nate McMillan Offense, the Sf is a finisher.  Similar to what you expect from the Center in the PNR... 

 

[Final_quest]

We talked about this before.  If Cam and Dre were supposed to be our starting wings of the future and they get less assists than Capela .......that is a HUGE problem.  Huerter and Bogdanovic are just below the PGs on the team in per36 assists. 

All of our wings have flaws and we need an upgrade.

[thecampster]

I hate per 36 for totals.  However, efficiency vs usage is a really good barometer there.

 

Compare for example Huerter vs Bogi vs Dre vs Cam in eFG%.  This is where you really start to understand our faults.

 

First notice how much more efficient Huerter and then Bogi are compared to Hunter, Reddish (may he find his true happy place) and Lou Williams.

Next (and I can't stress this enough), look at how efficient Skylar Mays is compared to all the people who got minutes over him this year.  No he isn't better than Kevin or Bogi due mainly to size...good night man....how can this guy not see the floor. His one flaw is his 3PT% but he doesn't take many.  I take heart over raw potential most days and Mays has heart in spades. He plays smart, team basketball.

Lastly, I know we all love Gallo but I really can't believe he's that much less efficient than Trae, Huerter, Bogi, JJ and Mays.

[macdaddy]

I agree Mays should have been getting minutes this season.  At 8 per game though not sure his stats are that meaningful.   My big question is did Skyler really start 5 games?  Those must have been the covid games. 

[JayBirdHawk]

2 minutes ago, macdaddy said:

I agree Mays should have been getting minutes this season.  At 8 per game though not sure his stats are that meaningful.   My big question is did Skyler really start 5 games?  Those must have been the covid games. 

Agreed and Yes, he started those games during the December COVID rampage.

[Diesel]

47 minutes ago, thecampster said:

I hate per 36 for totals.  However, efficiency vs usage is a really good barometer there.

 

Compare for example Huerter vs Bogi vs Dre vs Cam in eFG%.  This is where you really start to understand our faults.

 

First notice how much more efficient Huerter and then Bogi are compared to Hunter, Reddish (may he find his true happy place) and Lou Williams.

Next (and I can't stress this enough), look at how efficient Skylar Mays is compared to all the people who got minutes over him this year.  No he isn't better than Kevin or Bogi due mainly to size...good night man....how can this guy not see the floor. His one flaw is his 3PT% but he doesn't take many.  I take heart over raw potential most days and Mays has heart in spades. He plays smart, team basketball.

Lastly, I know we all love Gallo but I really can't believe he's that much less efficient than Trae, Huerter, Bogi, JJ and Mays.

All I know is that guy Cameron Oliver was a beast by all measures!!

I kid.

I tend to look at groupings.  Even here, SGs with SGs.. SFs with SFs...  does this mean that we play them the same way??

[Diesel]

Half Joking...

Cam Spaceman Oliver is a beast?!?  He may be a little undersized for the 4 but his strength can make up for that.   This guy is like Watching Shawn Kemp. 

Draft notes.

Measured: 6′ 7” barefoot, 6′ 8.25” in shoes, 238.6 lbs, 7′ 1.25” wingspan, 8′ 10.5” standing reach … One of the biggest facilitators and factors that led to Nevada winning the Mountain West regular season and postseason title was Cam Oliver … The sophomore skipped the draft, came back to the Wolf Pack after an impressive freshman campaign where he averaged 13.4 points per game, 9.1 rebounds per game, and 2.6 blocks per game … He lead Nevada to a Mountain West title and a 28-6 overall record. He picked up his scoring to 16.0 points per game, raised his three-point percentage to an impressive 38.4 and maintained his ridiculous 2.6 blocks per game … Expect Cam Oliver to be drafted this summer, at the end of the first round or early second … He should have a very good combine in the spring which will be encouraging to scouts and teams. He is too athletic,  intense and gifted not to be coveted by teams … His heart and basketball I.Q. have been questioned, but these probably just mean he’ll nbeed to fall in a good situation to get the most out of his abilities  … Draymond Green came out of college with similar traits and knocks on him, but he’s learned and adapted to a stretch forward and Oliver should look to him as inspiration. Oliver comes out of college playing more like Kenneth Faried though and can instantly improve a team’s rebounding, and glass presence …

[Final_quest]

1 hour ago, thecampster said:

Lastly, I know we all love Gallo but I really can't believe he's that much less efficient than Trae, Huerter, Bogi, JJ and Mays.

Gallo has been in a role with the second unit where he has to take more difficult shots.  They throw the ball to him in all kinds of bad situations.  Just a guess, but I’m betting he’s more efficient with Bogdanovic in that unit.  

[NBASupes]

Wake me when Hunter or any big wing gets touches on Trae lead teams

 

https://www.nba.com/stats/players/touches/?sort=TEAM_ABBREVIATION&dir=-1

 

Hunter is one of the better per touches players in the NBA. Can't wait till he leaves, blows up so I can continue to say told you dumbasses so

Edited March 14, 2022 by NBASupes

[AHF]

1 hour ago, NBASupes said:

Wake me when Hunter or any big wing gets touches on Trae lead teams

 

https://www.nba.com/stats/players/touches/?sort=TEAM_ABBREVIATION&dir=-1

 

Hunter is one of the better per touches players in the NBA. Can't wait till he leaves, blows up so I can continue to say told you dumbasses so

Points per touch really isn't the best measure of offensive efficiency since it means that anyone who passes the ball gets punished by that statistic and anyone who is a black hole and shoots when they touch the ball gets rewarded.  DeAndre Hunter's assist % is 6.1% which is by far the lowest of any regular on the team.  (Clint Capela 7.1%, Huerter 13.1%, Bogi 15.6% just as a few comparables) which should be a bit of a red flag in looking at points per touch since he is shooting at such a high rate whenever he touches the ball.

His TS% is a much better measure of his offensive efficiency.  In that respect, he is comparable to the other wings and not anything special.  (Hunter .556% TS%, Bogi .558% TS%, Huerter .571% TS%).  

Using the nba.com passing stats shows the contrast between OO and Hunter.  Hunter receives almost twice as many passes as OO but passes less than him despite getting the ball so much more often.  (Predictably, he is way behind Bogi and Huerter.)

This isn't to say that Hunter is a selfish jerk or anything.  I think he can improve as a passer but that is really not the point.  The point is that you should not look at points per touch without also factoring in how often people are shooting when they touch the ball and how often they are passing.  This "black hole" type of impact on that stat is why Cam is even higher than Hunter by the points per touch metric.  He had an even higher ratio of passes received to passes made than Hunter.
 

For reference, here are the ratios for our wings:

Cam:  1.49 passes received to passes made 

Hunter:  1.26 passes received to passes made 

Bogi: 1.08 passes received to passes made

Huerter: 1.05 passes received to passes made

 

If you look at the ratio of their shots per game to passes received per game, you see the same ordering:

Cam:  .486 shots per game to passes received per game

Hunter:  .475 shots per game to passes received per game

Bogi:  .404 shots per game to passes received per game

Huerter:  .352 shots per game to passes received per game

(Note just for the fun of it that Trae is .284 shots per game to passes received per game which should be expected since he is much more often doing something other than shooting when he touches the ball even though he is our lead scorer)

 

For reference:

Kevin Durant:  1.31 passes received to passes made; .370 shots per game to passes received per game

So Cam and Hunter shoot more often when they receive a pass than Kevin Durant.  This high shoot rate is predictably why they average more points per touch than Durant despite him being vastly more efficient and effective as a scorer.

It all just reinforces who is shooting the most often when they do touch the ball and that of course logically tracks to who scores the most per touch and why points per touch is a bad stat to use as a proxy for scoring ability.

None of this means that they shouldn't get more touches but it does mean if they move to a team where they will get the ball more than it is extremely unlikely they can sustain their high shot rates on their next team and so you should see that points per touch number drop off dramatically unless they maintain a very limited "gunner off the bench" type of role as Cam did during his limited run with the Knicks.  I'd view being able to maintain that high a point per touch ratio as a bad sign in terms of their limited role.

[REHawksFan]

11 minutes ago, AHF said:

Points per touch really isn't the best measure of offensive efficiency since it means that anyone who passes the ball gets punished by that statistic and anyone who is a black hole and shoots when they touch the ball gets rewarded.  DeAndre Hunter's assist % is 6.1% which is by far the lowest of any regular on the team.  (Clint Capela 7.1%, Huerter 13.1%, Bogi 15.6% just as a few comparables) which should be a bit of a red flag in looking at points per touch since he is shooting at such a high rate whenever he touches the ball.

His TS% is a much better measure of his offensive efficiency.  In that respect, he is comparable to the other wings and not anything special.  (Hunter .556% TS%, Bogi .558% TS%, Huerter .571% TS%).  

Trae gets the 11th most touches in the NBA at 82.4 per game. He scores 0.341 pts per touch which is by far the top number in the Top 11 players. Of the top 30 players in touches per game, Trae's scoring ranks 3rd behind only Ja (at 0.354) and Joel (at 0.396). 

Trae also leads the NBA in Dribbles per Touch while he's 3rd in the NBA in Ast/game (didn't see Ast/touch data). So what does all that mean?  What's the takeaway? 

  

[JayBirdHawk]

1 hour ago, REHawksFan said:

Trae gets the 11th most touches in the NBA at 82.4 per game. He scores 0.341 pts per touch which is by far the top number in the Top 11 players. Of the top 30 players in touches per game, Trae's scoring ranks 3rd behind only Ja (at 0.354) and Joel (at 0.396). 

Trae also leads the NBA in Dribbles per Touch while he's 3rd in the NBA in Ast/game (didn't see Ast/touch data). So what does all that mean?  What's the takeaway? 

  

It's Trae's ball 

[Diesel]

4 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

It's Trae's ball 

It means that Trae is great.

[Diesel]

In looking at stats for the other Trae thread (MVP).. I ran across something very telling. 

Over the last 15 games.. Hunter is hitting 10 to 14 ft shots at a 16% clip... Same shots about the same attempts, Huerter is nailing at 58%.  However, 15-19...  Hunter is about 56% and Huerter is 31%.

 

 

 

[thecampster]

2 hours ago, Diesel said:

In looking at stats for the other Trae thread (MVP).. I ran across something very telling. 

Over the last 15 games.. Hunter is hitting 10 to 14 ft shots at a 16% clip... Same shots about the same attempts, Huerter is nailing at 58%.  However, 15-19...  Hunter is about 56% and Huerter is 31%.

 

 

 

and at Golden Corral I'm 94% assured of ruining my diet.....  I'm really having a problem with this one cherry picked range when arguably, Huerter doesn't shoot and people are notoriously bad at. I'd be interested to know what percentage of his shots he takes at that range.

[NBASupes]

5 hours ago, AHF said:

Points per touch really isn't the best measure of offensive efficiency since it means that anyone who passes the ball gets punished by that statistic and anyone who is a black hole and shoots when they touch the ball gets rewarded.  DeAndre Hunter's assist % is 6.1% which is by far the lowest of any regular on the team.  (Clint Capela 7.1%, Huerter 13.1%, Bogi 15.6% just as a few comparables) which should be a bit of a red flag in looking at points per touch since he is shooting at such a high rate whenever he touches the ball.

His TS% is a much better measure of his offensive efficiency.  In that respect, he is comparable to the other wings and not anything special.  (Hunter .556% TS%, Bogi .558% TS%, Huerter .571% TS%).  

Using the nba.com passing stats shows the contrast between OO and Hunter.  Hunter receives almost twice as many passes as OO but passes less than him despite getting the ball so much more often.  (Predictably, he is way behind Bogi and Huerter.)

This isn't to say that Hunter is a selfish jerk or anything.  I think he can improve as a passer but that is really not the point.  The point is that you should not look at points per touch without also factoring in how often people are shooting when they touch the ball and how often they are passing.  This "black hole" type of impact on that stat is why Cam is even higher than Hunter by the points per touch metric.  He had an even higher ratio of passes received to passes made than Hunter.
 

For reference, here are the ratios for our wings:

Cam:  1.49 passes received to passes made 

Hunter:  1.26 passes received to passes made 

Bogi: 1.08 passes received to passes made

Huerter: 1.05 passes received to passes made

 

If you look at the ratio of their shots per game to passes received per game, you see the same ordering:

Cam:  .486 shots per game to passes received per game

Hunter:  .475 shots per game to passes received per game

Bogi:  .404 shots per game to passes received per game

Huerter:  .352 shots per game to passes received per game

(Note just for the fun of it that Trae is .284 shots per game to passes received per game which should be expected since he is much more often doing something other than shooting when he touches the ball even though he is our lead scorer)

 

For reference:

Kevin Durant:  1.31 passes received to passes made; .370 shots per game to passes received per game

So Cam and Hunter shoot more often when they receive a pass than Kevin Durant.  This high shoot rate is predictably why they average more points per touch than Durant despite him being vastly more efficient and effective as a scorer.

It all just reinforces who is shooting the most often when they do touch the ball and that of course logically tracks to who scores the most per touch and why points per touch is a bad stat to use as a proxy for scoring ability.

None of this means that they shouldn't get more touches but it does mean if they move to a team where they will get the ball more than it is extremely unlikely they can sustain their high shot rates on their next team and so you should see that points per touch number drop off dramatically unless they maintain a very limited "gunner off the bench" type of role as Cam did during his limited run with the Knicks.  I'd view being able to maintain that high a point per touch ratio as a bad sign in terms of their limited role.

They don't even get quality touches in Atlanta. People keep blaming the wings when the wings aren't getting quality touches. 

People don't understand how valuable touches are, especially quality touches. Hunter was getting more quality touches last year and his efficiency was very high for that. There is a massive difference. 

Edited March 14, 2022 by NBASupes

[AHF]

5 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

They don't even get quality touches in Atlanta. People keep blaming the wings when the wings aren't getting quality touches. 

I think you are going overboard with the "blame Trae" stuff right now.  Declaring him the worst defender in NBA history and the entire reason our wings haven't blossomed seems a bit much.  Bogi had what will be the best run of his career last season with Trae so it is proven that a wing can succeed next to him. 

Cam was certainly not beasting in NY and looked very similar to his time in Atlanta except that he was DNP-CD a lot more (he went from 18.3 pp36, 3.8 rb36, 1.7 a36 with .402% FG% / .379% 3pt% in Atlanta to 15.2 pp36, 3.5 r36, 1.7 a36 on .415% FG% / .258% 3pt% in New York).  

Is Trae the reason Bogi and Huerter don't get to the FT line? (Bogi didn't get there in 3 years in Sacramento either)

Is Trae the reason Hunter can't rebound?

I'm not saying there aren't some fit issues and challenges created by playing with someone like Trae but this feels like you are going over the deep end with the anti-Trae stuff over the last week or two.  We've seen the good side of what playing with Trae looks like as well in the playoffs last season.  It isn't all doom and gloom with Trae the root cause of every ill and liability the team sees.

[NBASupes]

8 minutes ago, AHF said:

I think you are going overboard with the "blame Trae" stuff right now.  Declaring him the worst defender in NBA history and the entire reason our wings haven't blossomed seems a bit much.  Bogi had what will be the best run of his career last season with Trae so it is proven that a wing can succeed next to him. 

Cam was certainly not beasting in NY and looked very similar to his time in Atlanta except that he was DNP-CD a lot more (he went from 18.3 pp36, 3.8 rb36, 1.7 a36 with .402% FG% / .379% 3pt% in Atlanta to 15.2 pp36, 3.5 r36, 1.7 a36 on .415% FG% / .258% 3pt% in New York).  

Is Trae the reason Bogi and Huerter don't get to the FT line? (Bogi didn't get there in 3 years in Sacramento either)

Is Trae the reason Hunter can't rebound?

I'm not saying there aren't some fit issues and challenges created by playing with someone like Trae but this feels like you are going over the deep end with the anti-Trae stuff over the last week or two.  We've seen the good side of what playing with Trae looks like as well in the playoffs last season.  It isn't all doom and gloom with Trae the root cause of every ill and liability the team sees.

I give Trae a ton of love. I love the kid. Facts are facts. He's not good for the wings on either end and his defense is a cancer. 

 

Cam is not really in there rotation, so I don't value any data from there this season. Maybe so next year for better or worse. 

Edited March 14, 2022 by NBASupes

[NBASupes]

@AHF

Hunter rebounding adj % is higher than JC

https://www.nba.com/stats/players/rebounding/?sort=TEAM_ABBREVIATION&dir=-1

This is the Al Horford conundrum where he's defending in space, he is not around many rebounds 

[Diesel]

2 hours ago, NBASupes said:

I give Trae a ton of love. I love the kid. Facts are facts. He's not good for the wings on either end and his defense is a cancer. 

 

Cam is not really in there rotation, so I don't value any data from there this season. Maybe so next year for better or worse. 

Not true.

Trae has the best Gravity in the League.   When Trae touches the ball, defenses shift from the wings and lean towards Trae.   Our offense is based on that.  PNR & The Lob & Trae passing out to wide open wings.   The problem is that our wings can't hit wide open shots consistently.  Not only that.. They won't blow by a defender running out and hit a runner.   How is this Trae's fault?

The game vs Portland was a prime example.. Our wings had several open looks from three.  Missed most of them.   Trae should have had 45 points and 20 assists.. but these wings can't hit open shots consistently.