The cobbled together, stuff we held on to during the playoffs mega super rumor and team direction thread.

[NBASupes]

24 minutes ago, sturt said:

 

They weren't looking that good bro when healthy. We need to stop this narrative, the entire league got impacted by COVID, not just the Hawks. 

[Peoriabird]

9 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

 

Trae/Coop/Maledon

LaVine/Kev/???

Hunter/Williams/???

Okongwu/JJ/JRE

Ayton/???/???

Yeah so you are starting to see the problem with this plan which is ??? after ???  This team is a 8th seed especially if there is only 1 injury

[NBASupes]

2 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

Yeah so you are starting to see the problem with this plan which is ??? after ???  This team is a 8th seed especially if there is only 1 injury

JRE played the 5 with OKC so he can play it in Atlanta. I think the starting lineup is one of the best in the NBA and they can beat anyone with that starting five. 

https://thunderousintentions.com/2022/05/13/oklahoma-city-thunder-grade-five/6/

The issue with this lineup is the bench has question marks and limited vets. 

Coop and Maledon haven't exactly set the world on fire in the NBA. Maledon had an excellent rookie year but it's been rough since. Coop had a lot of success at the end of the year in the Gleague but that's not the NBA. Going from Delon Wright to Coop and Maledon will be a clear downgrade unless both have marked improvements this offseason which I believe Coop could but how much is ultimately what matters most. 

Kevin as a 6th man is his perfect role and he can play the 2 and 3. Finding a reasonable 3rd SG is probably not that big of a deal. We can find a Gleaguer who's okay to do that and we have the TPE money. 

Williams is probably our best backup SF we have had in years so I love the idea of him in Atlanta if we land him. I know he's available for trade so I hope we can get him. We clearly need another SF as well. Hopefully we draft a 2 or 3 at 16. 

Year 2 of JJ should be ready to be a 2nd stringer. We likely need to address his backup with a vet like we did last year with Dieng. 

JRE is another value that I really want from OKC. He can play with high BBIQ and is a good fit with our 2nd unit. I think he's worthy of trading for. I am not sure if need to address the 3rd string center position. I think this spot can be left along till around the trade deadline. 

Coop/Maledon

Kev/???

Williams/???

JJ/???

JRE/???

[Dean Walker]

26 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

A draftday trade of Gallo and two 2nds for Kenrich Williams, Jeremiah Robinson-Earl and Theo Maledon

 

Gives us 

Trae/Coop/Maledon

Kev or Bogi/Mays

Hunter/Williams/???

JC/JJ/JRE

Capela/OO/???

and a 14,475,000 TPE. 

This also means we are 10,685,493 under the LT. 

A Lavine trade for JC/Bogi would give us estimated 5 million which means we are about 15 under the LT

But an Ayton SnT trade where we can add other teams vet non-guaranteed mins to Capela will cost us 11 million. 

This means, we could get Ayton and LaVine and still be under the LT by 4 million which can be used to resign Cooper (1.5).

The issue is, 16th will cost us 3.8 mil. We would have to be crafty to get that deal done. So it's unlikely we avoid the LT but we can barely pay it which could be a big advantage for TR. 44th doesn't have a cap value assigned. This might be a smart time to only sign 14 players and get two two-way deals signed. 

Okongwu can play both 4 and 5 as can JJ in spurts. JRE played the 5 for OKC. So it gives us some flexibility in looking for a 5. Based on our open spots even after an fake Gallo trade, we still have so many open spots at the end of the rotation and limited funds to address it. 

 

Trae/Coop/Maledon

LaVine/Kev/???

Hunter/Williams/???

Okongwu/JJ/???

Ayton/JRE/???

Cmon supes Oo is not a 4!

That team goes nowhere.

[terrell]

26 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

A draftday trade of Gallo and two 2nds for Kenrich Williams, Jeremiah Robinson-Earl and Theo Maledon

 

Gives us 

Trae/Coop/Maledon

Kev or Bogi/Mays

Hunter/Williams/???

JC/JJ/JRE

Capela/OO/???

and a 14,475,000 TPE. 

This also means we are 10,685,493 under the LT. 

A Lavine trade for JC/Bogi would give us estimated 5 million which means we are about 15 under the LT

But an Ayton SnT trade where we can add other teams vet non-guaranteed mins to Capela will cost us 11 million. 

This means, we could get Ayton and LaVine and still be under the LT by 4 million which can be used to resign Cooper (1.5).

The issue is, 16th will cost us 3.8 mil. We would have to be crafty to get that deal done. So it's unlikely we avoid the LT but we can barely pay it which could be a big advantage for TR. 44th doesn't have a cap value assigned. This might be a smart time to only sign 14 players and get two two-way deals signed. 

Okongwu can play both 4 and 5 as can JJ in spurts. JRE played the 5 for OKC. So it gives us some flexibility in looking for a 5. Based on our open spots even after an fake Gallo trade, we still have so many open spots at the end of the rotation and limited funds to address it. 

 

Trae/Coop/Maledon

LaVine/Kev/???

Hunter/Williams/???

Okongwu/JJ/???

Ayton/JRE/???

Wed have to at least bring Solo back. That team has no leadership...

And Id hate to lose Delon... He was our best perimeter defender..

[marco102]

26 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

A draftday trade of Gallo and two 2nds for Kenrich Williams, Jeremiah Robinson-Earl and Theo Maledon

 

Gives us 

Trae/Coop/Maledon

Kev or Bogi/Mays

Hunter/Williams/???

JC/JJ/JRE

Capela/OO/???

and a 14,475,000 TPE. 

This also means we are 10,685,493 under the LT. 

A Lavine trade for JC/Bogi would give us estimated 5 million which means we are about 15 under the LT

But an Ayton SnT trade where we can add other teams vet non-guaranteed mins to Capela will cost us 11 million. 

This means, we could get Ayton and LaVine and still be under the LT by 4 million which can be used to resign Cooper (1.5).

The issue is, 16th will cost us 3.8 mil. We would have to be crafty to get that deal done. So it's unlikely we avoid the LT but we can barely pay it which could be a big advantage for TR. 44th doesn't have a cap value assigned. This might be a smart time to only sign 14 players and get two two-way deals signed. 

Okongwu can play both 4 and 5 as can JJ in spurts. JRE played the 5 for OKC. So it gives us some flexibility in looking for a 5. Based on our open spots even after an fake Gallo trade, we still have so many open spots at the end of the rotation and limited funds to address it. 

 

Trae/Coop/Maledon

LaVine/Kev/???

Hunter/Williams/???

Okongwu/JJ/???

Ayton/JRE/???

You don't include JC with Bogi to get Lavine.

To me, you should keep JC.

We have a great front court with Ayton, JJ, JC, and OO.

Makes no sense to trade JC with Bogi.  The trade won't go through unless Chicago gives Atl more salary in return.

[sturt]

29 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

They weren't looking that good bro when healthy. We need to stop this narrative, the entire league got impacted by COVID, not just the Hawks. 

1. .621 is .621. I don't control the numbers. They are what they are. One can say "they weren't looking that good when healthy," but then... numbers. Objective numbers.

(And I should add quickly... BOS and MIL with whom the numbers assert ATL would have been battling for #2 "didn't look all that good when healthy" for spurts in the season... for what that matters. ATL demolished BOS in a game immediately before BOS went on their run to end the season.)

 

2. "We need to stop this narrative. The entire league got impacted by COVID not just the Hawks."

 

"We need to stop this narrative" is my line. My friend, pardon the observation, but the narrative you're pushing is lazy logic. It would get a person failed in grad school if they clung to it as a few (not that many, actually) Hawks fans have.

Hear me out, would you please.

 

- Yes, every team dealt with health issues. The question becomes how do you analyze the situation in a way that is both internally and externally valid?

- Would you agree that scientific method is synonymous with the best logic? I'm going to assume that's the case.

 

So, track with me...

- If you're running an experiment according to scientific method standards, you can subject all of the study participants to the same treatment, but you should not anticipate that all of the participants will have the same outcome... true?

- True, and why is that? Because every person has his/her own set of conditions, perhaps biological or maybe social or emotional, that make them more or less vulnerable to a good or bad outcome.

- So in the assessment then... and that's what we're doing here, assessing a team as-if a body... cross-comparison between bodies is invalid unless you're doing an identical twin study.

- But what is valid in assessing the treatment+outcome is before and after for a single person/body (or, in this case, team).. what was the subject like with the treatment and without the treatment. (In this case, of course, that "treatment" is a concentration of negative health experiences.)

- Again, NBA teams are not analogous in any way to identical twins... they each have very different combinations of players with their own skill sets. But one can look at how each performed when they were and were not experiencing a "treatment."

- Worse for the Hawks, they didn't have games postponed like others did... I believe the GM even set an NBA record for the number of players on a roster in one year...

- But the stinging part wasn't just that, but that for 6 weeks, the head coach couldn't get any continuity or stability in his starting line-up. Really jarring to have to adapt to incorporate players who hadn't even earned rotation-quality status...

- Obviously so. They... the real Hawks... posted a .621 otherwise.

 

Not only is this a narrative that needs to be continue to be conveyed and understood as widely as possible, old friend, it is the only valid narrative when it comes to analyzing the health impact on the Hawks' season.

 

 

[JTB]

1 hour ago, NBASupes said:

I've come to accept 

Trae

LaVine

Hunter

Okongwu

Ayton

 

Okongwu should cover for some of Ayton's blemishes on defense and Okongwu and Ayton can work well together especially if OO improves that range. 

 

Me and you may be the only ones on this board that believes OO is a PF.

To ME you are what you can defend and OO has had more success against PFs than Centers due to his size BUT on the flip side of that offensively I understand OO has not proven to be a shooter yet but I really do believe the guy is going to come back with a solid 12-15 foot mid range game next season .

In fact during his exit interview he promised to come back with a jumper next season (or something along those lines)…I don’t know what it is but OO strikes me as a young player who really gets at it and don’t bullshit around! I really believe this kid is going to do what he says and improve in what he sets his mind to…the kid is going to be making mid range jumpers next season! Watch and see! 

[Spud2nique]

Just now, JTB said:

Me and you may be the only ones on this board that believes OO is a PF.

To ME you are what you can defend and OO has had more success against PFs than Centers due to his size BUT on the flip side of that offensively I understand OO has not proven to be a shooter yet but I really do believe the guy is going to come back with a solid 12-15 foot mid range game next season .

In fact during his exit interview he promised to come back with a jumper next season (or something along those lines)…I don’t know what it is but OO strikes me as a young player who really gets at it and don’t bullshit around! I really believe this kid is going to do what he says and improve in what he sets his mind to…the kid is going to be making mid range jumpers next season! Watch and see! 

I think OO is capable of either slot. 4/5 5/4 why limit it. Use the versatility in certain spots.

[NBASupes]

4 minutes ago, JTB said:

Me and you may be the only ones on this board that believes OO is a PF.

To ME you are what you can defend and OO has had more success against PFs than Centers due to his size BUT on the flip side of that offensively I understand OO has not proven to be a shooter yet but I really do believe the guy is going to come back with a solid 12-15 foot mid range game next season .

In fact during his exit interview he promised to come back with a jumper next season (or something along those lines)…I don’t know what it is but OO strikes me as a young player who really gets at it and don’t bullshit around! I really believe this kid is going to do what he says and improve in what he sets his mind to…the kid is going to be making mid range jumpers next season! Watch and see! 

Most people on this board with sense believe Okongwu is a 4/5. He's really this generation's Horace Grant. Grant had to extend his range and so does OO. Okongwu can defend wings better than JC and he defends bigs way better than JC. I don't see how you just don't see this as a fact. He even can short roll pass consistently. OO does a lot of things 4s do. He just lacks the range but he has the shooting potential based on his FTs. 

[Peoriabird]

2 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

Most people on this board with sense believe Okongwu is a 4/5. He's really this generation's Horace Grant. Grant had to extend his range and so does OO. Okongwu can defend wings better than JC and he defends bigs way better than JC. I don't see how you just don't see this as a fact. He even can short roll pass consistently. OO does a lot of things 4s do. He just lacks the range but he has the shooting potential based on his FTs. 

Okongwu averaged 8 points per game in his 2nd year...John 19.5.  I don't see the projection

[kg01]

3 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

Okongwu averaged 8 points per game in his 2nd year...John 19.5.  I don't see the projection

I'm with you on this one, peo.  Feels funny to agree, right? 

[Peoriabird]

1 minute ago, kg01 said:

I'm with you on this one, peo.  Feels funny to agree, right? 

I mean I like Okongwu as a player but as a starter over Collin? Makes no sense.  Collins can do some much more on offense and is a competent defender.

[JTB]

8 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

Okongwu averaged 8 points per game in his 2nd year...John 19.5.  I don't see the projection

@NBASupes now he wants to talk about offense

5 minutes ago, kg01 said:

I'm with you on this one, peo.  Feels funny to agree, right? 

Oh are you now?!

[JTB]

2 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

I mean I like Okongwu as a player but as a starter over Collin? Makes no sense.  Collins can do some much more on offense and is a competent defender.

Why are we talking about offense ? …isn’t that what you asked a day or so ago ? 

[Peoriabird]

1 minute ago, JTB said:

Why are we talking about offense ? …isn’t that what you asked a day or so ago ? 

Did you miss the 2nd part?  He is a competent defender!

[NBASupes]

13 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

Okongwu averaged 8 points per game in his 2nd year...John 19.5.  I don't see the projection

Most stupid shit I've read all day. Ya'll boys must be smoking reefer on here while posting. You do realize Okongwu plays 21 MPG and only gets 25.8 touches per game compared to year 2 JC who got 66 touches per game. 

https://www.nba.com/stats/players/touches/?Season=2021-22&SeasonType=Regular Season&sort=TOUCHES&dir=1&TeamID=1610612737

We obviously aren't going to use Okongwu the way we use JC. He will be moreso used like a traditional 4 instead of a modern 4 which we have in JC offensively. We will use him for screens, post-ups, short rolls, screening for Trae, Zach, and Dre. He will also be used to cutting and rebounding offensively. He will be used as a role player who gets limited touches.  

https://www.nba.com/stats/players/touches/?Season=2018-19&SeasonType=Regular Season&sort=TOUCHES&dir=1&TeamID=1610612737

Edited May 28, 2022 by NBASupes

[JTB]

20 minutes ago, Spud2nique said:

I think OO is capable of either slot. 4/5 5/4 why limit it. Use the versatility in certain spots.

If we have Ayton and Lavine I’m fine with  OO starting at 4. His defensive potential/ upside is way better than JCs.

 

of course if we don’t get Ayton then you can’t really sacrifice moving collins if need be. Ideally I’d rather keep JC with Lavine and Ayton but may not be possible 

[NBASupes]

1 minute ago, JTB said:

If we have Ayton and Lavine I’m fine with  OO starting at 4. His defensive potential/ upside is way better than JCs.

 

of course if we don’t get Ayton then you can’t really sacrifice moving collins if need be. Ideally I’d rather keep JC with Lavine and Ayton but may not be possible 

That's the thing, Okongwu/Capela is just too offensively limited. Teams can sell out to the perimeter but Ayton and Okongwu can play off each other. That will also limit Ayton's defensive responsibility considering LaVine and Trae backcourt. 

9 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

I mean I like Okongwu as a player but as a starter over Collin? Makes no sense.  Collins can do some much more on offense and is a competent defender.

No one is suggesting starting Okongwu over Collins if JC is on the squad. 

[JTB]

1 minute ago, Peoriabird said:

Did you miss the 2nd part?  He is a competent defender!

Nope! I just completely ignored it and decided to only comment on the part that I have an agenda towards.

learned that from a certain someone …..