The cobbled together, stuff we held on to during the playoffs mega super rumor and team direction thread.

[h4wkfan]

Still a ways to go. If Celtics lose on Sunday, they have to strongly consider splitting the Brown/Tatum pairing. 
 

could make Brown available, or the downstream could make another star available that we could make a run for.

[REHawksFan]

6 hours ago, NBASupes said:

No one from what I've gotten has spoken with Chicago about anything revolving LaVine. That includes the teams he's targeting in Dallas, Portland, LAL, and the Hawks. 

Quite the opposite with Ayton where Phoenix has extensively talked to teams around the league to get a gist of what they can get in return for an Ayton deal. Ayton's agent is very aware of his options on the marketplace. 

Chicago would still like to retain LaVine even if they want to take less. I see it like Horford and Atlanta years back. Atlanta wanted to keep him but not that damn bad and Al saw that as disrespect but he was focused on the best project for him which was Boston at that time. 

Whoever gets LaVine, it will be like LMA and Horford. He's going to where he feels is the best project for him to win a title and play well. This nonsense that he wants his own team is fluff. The only teams he's entertaining already have a star in place. He wants to be used like a star around a star. Interested in Atlanta pitch but I already know what it is. 

Trae and LaVine will be the primary ball handlers. They want Trae to play without the ball more. They want to lessen the double teams he gets. 

Ayton would be the primary big man option. Trae and him in the PnR. Talk about how both are floater kings and how Trae creates the most open looks for his teammates. Talk about how Okongwu and Ayton will be man the defense and our big wing defender is Hunter. Talk about how there is a peaking order and everyone understands their role and is happy with it. 

They gotta go against Luka/Brunson, Lillard, and Bron/AD as well as Chicago where he's been of late. It won't be easy at all for Zach

 

Between Dallas, Portland, LAL, and Atlanta, who can offer Chicago the best deal? I know the bulls don't have a ton of leverage, but none of those teams have the space to sign him outright so I'm guessing the bulls have to agree to the deal for it to work. 

Do the other teams have pieces Bulls would covet in a SNT?

[thecampster]

9 hours ago, NBASupes said:

Stupid ass response. That wasn't my reply, I am saying you can't compare PPG when they aren't used no where near the same. Even in touches. OO does more with his touches in terms of creation for himself and others but he's not anywhere near as capable offensive as JC is and no one is saying otherwise. JC is a top level offensive 4 from a scoring stance. 

Lets try to be civil!

[marco102]

7 hours ago, NBASupes said:

LaVine salary will be 36.6 million. Bogi salary is 18 mil. That's less than half of Bogi salary. 

Chicago is not gonna do a Gallo and Bogi for LaVine deal no matter how many picks we want to throw into it and we can't even trade that picks like that as Ayton is gonna cost us at least two 1sts.

From the link I sent i think Zach only counts $19MM for Chicago,or the average of his old and new salary, and counts $37MM for Atlanta. 

Atlanta does have to move more salary but it most likely will not be to Chicago. Bogi and JC don't work in a stand-alone trade with Chicago.

Edited May 28, 2022 by marco102

[Peoriabird]

1 hour ago, h4wkfan said:

Still a ways to go. If Celtics lose on Sunday, they have to strongly consider splitting the Brown/Tatum pairing. 
 

could make Brown available, or the downstream could make another star available that we could make a run for.

Lol! Typical Hawk fan logic!

[sturt]

1 hour ago, h4wkfan said:

could make Brown available

There's some substance to that thought, though I really think BOS ultimately would conclude they've come too close not to run it back.

 

However, whereas I consider the perceptions of LaVine-as-savior as being mostly akin to how a kid might spend the weeks before Christmas lost in his romance for a Red Ryder BB gun... Brown is younger, stronger defensively, and really could be a difference maker if somehow Schlenk could swing a deal with Stevens.

 

But this is why I hate trades as a rule.... inherently, both teams have reason to believe they're getting the better end of the bargain. And unless a team is tanking, there's a 66.7% chance that you're not going to "win" any given trade--ie, given that there are three possibilities--you win, they win, or it's a draw. So, you're so much more likely to either stand in place (33.3% chance) or go backwards (33.3% chance).

 

Logically, you're not smart to put your hopes in the "let's trade our way to a championship" basket.

[Spud2nique]

1 hour ago, h4wkfan said:

Still a ways to go. If Celtics lose on Sunday, they have to strongly consider splitting the Brown/Tatum pairing. 

Nope, less than a 1% chance of that. 

4 minutes ago, sturt said:

There's some substance to that thought,

0.01% substance.

[Hawkmoor]

When Travis became GM,  the team philosophy was clear,  turn the Hawks into Golden State East.  That meant a point guard with a who could stretch the floor and play defense, a 2 guard who can stretch the floor and play defense, and wings who could defend.   Travis is either didn't draft the right players for that, he hired the wrong coach or he isn't the right GM the Hawks should have gotten from Golden State. 

Travis isn't gonna fire himself, so the first step is to step back and ask if thats the blue print he wants to continue with.  The players the Hawks have been linked to are all over the place.  To stay with the Golden State philosophy its clear the Hawks either have to upgrade shooting guard and get a wing defender.  This talk about Ayton and Gobert don't make sense.  I like Bogi but dude isn't consistent enough and don't play defense.  Young obvious is allergic to defense, that means the pressure is on either outscoring opponents or having wing defense to cover the backcourt.  Simmons, Irving, Levine, etc. are the type of players they need to concentrate on.  Bringing Ayton or Gobert into the fold is just replacing Capela and is not the answer.

[sturt]

35 minutes ago, thecampster said:

Lets try to be civil!

Aside: I greatly appreciate @NBASupes... and to be fair to him, his criticism technically was to the response and he made no personal attack... and to be fair to him, I think we all know how it feels to feel like a response someone made isn't actually all that substantive to the point we were trying to make, and it can be frustrating. But that said, I'm in your camp, Camp... sometimes words can be a bit too needlessly abrasive.

[Peoriabird]

1 minute ago, Spud2nique said:

Nope, less than a 1% chance of that. 

0.01% substance.

Seriously! The celtics are one of the top 3 teams in the NBA with a young core and the solution to losing game 7 against the #1 seed in the East in their building is to break the team up? Only Hawk fans think like this. Just asinine

[sturt]

4 minutes ago, Spud2nique said:

0.01% substance.

I'll grant you something in the 10% range.

The missing piece in your assessment, imo, is that it's not like we don't have assets that Stevens probably would *love* to add to his inventory. Would he exchange Brown? Depends on the package. Probably not. 90%-ish probably not.

[marco102]

2 minutes ago, Hawkmoor said:

When Travis became GM,  the team philosophy was clear,  turn the Hawks into Golden State East.  That meant a point guard with a who could stretch the floor and play defense, a 2 guard who can stretch the floor and play defense, and wings who could defend.   Travis is either didn't draft the right players for that, he hired the wrong coach or he isn't the right GM the Hawks should have gotten from Golden State. 

Travis isn't gonna fire himself, so the first step is to step back and ask if thats the blue print he wants to continue with.  The players the Hawks have been linked to are all over the place.  To stay with the Golden State philosophy its clear the Hawks either have to upgrade shooting guard and get a wing defender.  This talk about Ayton and Gobert don't make sense.  I like Bogi but dude isn't consistent enough and don't play defense.  Young obvious is allergic to defense, that means the pressure is on either outscoring opponents or having wing defense to cover the backcourt.  Simmons, Irving, Levine, etc. are the type of players they need to concentrate on.  Bringing Ayton or Gobert into the fold is just replacing Capela and is not the answer.

The only similarity to GS that Travis ever imitated was having a dynamic point guard. 

Steph Curry couldn't defend me on the court when he first came into the league so I don't know where you get a point guard who could stretch the floor and defend.  Heck, he still gets picked on on defense. He's def much improved on that end which gives me hope for Trae.

Trae's not much worse than a Doncic, Steph, etc in the playoffs.  All these teams attack them.  They all need help.  This isn't me saying Trae isn't bad at defense, but during the  playoffs teams don't attack him with success like you think. 

[kg01]

10 hours ago, JTB said:

Oh are you now?!

10 hours ago, NBASupes said:

Most stupid shit I've read all day. Ya'll boys must be smoking reefer on here while posting. You do realize Okongwu plays 21 MPG and only gets 25.8 touches per game compared to year 2 JC who got 66 touches per game. 

https://www.nba.com/stats/players/touches/?Season=2021-22&SeasonType=Regular Season&sort=TOUCHES&dir=1&TeamID=1610612737

We obviously aren't going to use Okongwu the way we use JC. He will be moreso used like a traditional 4 instead of a modern 4 which we have in JC offensively. We will use him for screens, post-ups, short rolls, screening for Trae, Zach, and Dre. He will also be used to cutting and rebounding offensively. He will be used as a role player who gets limited touches.  

https://www.nba.com/stats/players/touches/?Season=2018-19&SeasonType=Regular Season&sort=TOUCHES&dir=1&TeamID=1610612737

Bro, we all like OO but don't pretend his offensive repertoire is anywhere near Jollins'.

It ain't just touches and it ain't just the weed. 

[marco102]

4 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

Seriously! The celtics are one of the top 3 teams in the NBA with a young core and the solution to losing game 7 against the #1 seed in the East in their building is to break the team up? Only Hawk fans think like this. Just asinine

Not true.  All fan bases think like this. 

Fan = fanatic so we aren't logical about our team or other teams when it benefits our team.  Not sure why you are trying to make the other poster feel stupid for his post. 

Let us not pull up game threads when you are in the heat of the moment. 

[kg01]

2 minutes ago, marco102 said:

Not true.  All fan bases think like this. 

Fan = fanatic so we aren't logical about our team or other teams when it benefits our team.  Not sure why you are trying to make the other poster feel stupid for his post. 

Let us not pull up game threads when you are in the heat of the moment. 

Marqo out here threatenin' to pull receipts?

Remind me never to get back on your bad side, marq.  'Cause I got some janky receipts out there.

[Spud2nique]

13 minutes ago, sturt said:

10%

WHAT??? I’m sorry I can’t do 10, look it’s above what I can do, would you consider a solid 1%? 

[NekiEcko]

11 minutes ago, Hawkmoor said:

When Travis became GM,  the team philosophy was clear,  turn the Hawks into Golden State East.  That meant a point guard with a who could stretch the floor and play defense, a 2 guard who can stretch the floor and play defense, and wings who could defend.   Travis is either didn't draft the right players for that, he hired the wrong coach or he isn't the right GM the Hawks should have gotten from Golden State. 

Travis isn't gonna fire himself, so the first step is to step back and ask if thats the blue print he wants to continue with.  The players the Hawks have been linked to are all over the place.  To stay with the Golden State philosophy its clear the Hawks either have to upgrade shooting guard and get a wing defender.  This talk about Ayton and Gobert don't make sense.  I like Bogi but dude isn't consistent enough and don't play defense.  Young obvious is allergic to defense, that means the pressure is on either outscoring opponents or having wing defense to cover the backcourt.  Simmons, Irving, Levine, etc. are the type of players they need to concentrate on.  Bringing Ayton or Gobert into the fold is just replacing Capela and is not the answer.

I don't think he was ever trying to make this team Golden State East but a team that is not going to the lottery every year.  I dont think no team will accomplish that ever again.  

I think Travis did have some mistake here and there but I think he did a excellent job and this is his first gig as GM (Remember the hell that GS fans gave Bob Myers when he started as GM).

Believe me, I would love to see this team try one more time with the same pieces, but we know that we got to get help for Trae (Miami series showed us that painfully).  Besides it comes with a question, how can you build a team around a PG who is S+ in offense while F- in defense?

[Peoriabird]

8 hours ago, NBASupes said:

No one from what I've gotten has spoken with Chicago about anything revolving LaVine. That includes the teams he's targeting in Dallas, Portland, LAL, and the Hawks. 

 

 

So wait...fans are purposing line ups including lavine and trades for Lavine and the Hawks have not even talked with Chicago about Lavine? So all of this is coming from the fan base??? Lol!

[sturt]

46 minutes ago, Hawkmoor said:

Travis is either didn't draft the right players for that, he hired the wrong coach or he isn't the right GM the Hawks should have gotten from Golden State. 

 

No offense, Hawkmoor, but this narrative needs to meet its death.

People need to be discerning. For a change.

They need to separate and assess the Real Hawks for what they did, which is different from what the gumbo mix of our real Hawks and some... pardon the expression... inferior misfits did.

If you're one of those whose instant automatic response to that is, "Oh, but everyone else also experienced something similar, so that's just an excuse."

I'm here to tell you, you're leaning into lazy logic.

I'm telling you that both as a Hawks fan and as someone who has some professional credentials that give me standing to say so... and I took a moment to explain that a couple of pages back... just look for the 18 point font size, which yeah, I thought was imperative given how this idea just won't stop breathing.

Fully appreciate that we have to make some changes. Not debating that. Gallo's contract situation mostly demands it. Fully appreciate that the owner and the GM have made public comments that give reason to believe they are intent on change. But none of that should prevent anyone from recognizing the entire context of the situation. This is a potent team as-is.

[NekiEcko]

4 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

So wait...fans are purposing line ups including lavine and trades for Lavine and the Hawks have not even talked with Chicago about Lavine? So all of this is coming from the fan base??? Lol!

You are reaching again, no team can talk to the Chicago about Lavine until the end of the season.