The cobbled together, stuff we held on to during the playoffs mega super rumor and team direction thread.

[nathan2331]

48 minutes ago, Diesel said:

It's interesting.. I don't see it.. the need for Ayton.. He's not a defensive help guy.  CC is.  I guess we will see. 

You make the move for Ayton mainly because Capela has had injury problems that have limited his impact and Ayton is a better offensive player that allows you to do more things on that end. If Capela was 100% healthy next season I wouldn't be interested in moving him at all, but I don't think that's realistic. The same logic could be applied to Collins, but I don't think you can upgrade from him based on all the moves that have been proposed.

If we want to see improvement defensively, like @sturt has suggested, we should try to work out a deal with OKC to get Lu Dort. Or go back in time get Reddish to play with some consistency.

[NBASupes]

15 minutes ago, nathan2331 said:

You make the move for Ayton mainly because Capela has had injury problems that have limited his impact and Ayton is a better offensive player that allows you to do more things on that end. If Capela was 100% healthy next season I wouldn't be interested in moving him at all, but I don't think that's realistic. The same logic could be applied to Collins, but I don't think you can upgrade from him based on all the moves that have been proposed.

If we want to see improvement defensively, like @sturt has suggested, we should try to work out a deal with OKC to get Lu Dort. Or go back in time get Reddish to play with some consistency.

Capela took longer to get his injury together but by JAN, he was back and the Hawks were winning and he was our best impact player again. Capela was really healthy from JAN on till the Cleveland game in the play-in. 

[NBASupes]

John Collins, Hawks, Raptors, and Draft News

You all have seen all the reports about JC being available. He’s confirmed once again it’s very true and been confirmed it but he’s NOT on the trade block. He even confirmed the teams interested and what Atlanta is looking for:

1.      They only want to trade for 2022-23 salary cap year. 

2.      Atlanta wants to save money (TPE). Meaning any trade for JC, will mean Atlanta wants to save a lot of money. They want the high lottery pick, a player that’s not like that important but is on a cheap good contract, and they want to trade with teams who have a lot of cap space in 22-23.  

3.      The teams who have reached out with interest in JC is Utah, SAC, Indy, POR, and SA. Three of those teams have cap space, SAC has a chance at Ivey who Atlanta highly covets. Watch for teams like Toronto and Atlanta to move into the top 10.

With the OKC trade yesterday, Gallo is looking more and more like a waive more than a trade.

The Hawks prefer to trade Bogi over Kevin but Kevin is getting more interest around the league.

Raptors

OG has been shopped. While a trade for a pick is likely the outcome, they have mentioned to PHX they are open to trading OG to them for Ayton. PHX has listened but we were told they want a high-end center to replace Ayton and Ayton ultimately will make his decision, not the franchise. This seems to flip flop but this is what we just talked about.

Draft News:

Teams are looking to add more 1^st round picks with the cap issue for this upcoming season. Watch for teams trading back. The buzz is there could be two shockers at the draft in the top 10.

[nathan2331]

3 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

Capela took longer to get his injury together but by JAN, he was back and the Hawks were winning and he was our best impact player again. Capela was really healthy from JAN on till the Cleveland game in the play-in. 

And the the play-in injury wasn't Capela's fault, but we have gone into these past two playiffs with him dealing with injuries. The Rockets moved him for similar reasons. Trading him is no guarantee Ayton will be healthier, but I've seen enough. I respect what he's done for this team and and 100% healthy he's a tremendous player. But I'm not confident we'll see that next postseason if he stays.

[NBASupes]

6 minutes ago, nathan2331 said:

And the the play-in injury wasn't Capela's fault, but we have gone into these past two playiffs with him dealing with injuries. The Rockets moved him for similar reasons. Trading him is no guarantee Ayton will be healthier, but I've seen enough. I respect what he's done for this team and and 100% healthy he's a tremendous player. But I'm not confident we'll see that next postseason if he stays.

The Rockets moved him because Westbrook couldn't play with Capela and RoCo was available. It didn't help Capela was out for the rest of that year. If you remember, he was going to be out even during the bubble if Atlanta made it in. That injury was far more serious and he came the next year and posted a 10.6 WAR. 

[nathan2331]

7 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

The Rockets moved him because Westbrook couldn't play with Capela and RoCo was available. It didn't help Capela was out for the rest of that year. If you remember, he was going to be out even during the bubble if Atlanta made it in. That injury was far more serious and he came the next year and posted a 10.6 WAR. 

But I'm not arguing that he's never gonna be healthy at all. I'm concerned about us going into the playoffs with injuries. Obviously you can't control everything and Capela is not the only player on the team who's played hurt. But I do think Capela's issues are concerning enough that if we can get a similar or better quality player for reasonable cost we should do it. If Bogi, Hunter or Collins could be swapped for healthier players of similar or better quality I'd be for it. But those players aren't available.

[Spud2nique]

Hmm  

The Hawks, meanwhile, could gain some financial flexibility depending on what they'd receive in return.

Collins is owed $75.4 million guaranteed over the next three years and has a $26.6 million player option for 2025-26.

Atlanta has Danilo Gallinari (unrestricted) and De'Andre Hunter (restricted) hitting free agency in 2023. Bogdan Bogdanovic will be on the market at the same time if he declines his $18 million player option for 2023-24. Then it will be time to potentially give Onyeka Okongwu a new deal in 2024 upon the expiration of his rookie contract.

The cost of keeping this roster together will be high on its own before factoring in any outside additions.

The above is if we move JC for a lotto pick, then acquire a star (disgruntled) down the road?…

[Spud2nique]

If the Hawks fail to get a player of equal value to Collins, then Schlenk could at least open enough salary cap space to pursue a star through free agency or a trade down the line. That would presumably be the aim if Atlanta wants to use Collins to move up in the draft.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

4 hours ago, Peoriabird said:

Looking at these playoffs, Scoring bigs aren't winning these games

That's because neither team has a scoring big that can win them a game.

I hope Landry realizes that the Hawks need to be constructed to play any style of basketball. And to me, that means we need to be flexible enough to run if need be, or play a legit half court offensive game.

In my mind, Milwaukee is still the team we must be able to match up with. That means keeping good big men on the roster that can challenge Giannis in the paint.

But if we get into a running game, we need capable wings who can knock down 3s at a high rate, or get to the rim whenever they want.

If either Golden State or Boston had a player the caliber of Ayton in the middle, this series may be over by now.

Guard / wing play in this series has been inconsistent at best. 

[TRW]

I hope we said no if this is true. I'm not a fan of Gobert. He would be a problem during playoff time because teams would go small and force us to not play him and his contract is an albatross. I would pass on Gobert.

[JayBirdHawk]

5 hours ago, NBASupes said:

 

1.      They only want to trade for 2022-23 salary cap year. 

2.      Atlanta wants to save money (TPE). Meaning any trade for JC, will mean Atlanta wants to save a lot of money. They want the high lottery pick, a player that’s not like that important but is on a cheap good contract, and they want to trade with teams who have a lot of cap space in 22-23.  

 

10 hours ago, JayBirdHawk said:

If this trade happens in a vacuum for just the pick this screams Luxury Tax avoidance at all cost.  Will be looking at TR like

Worth Repeating^^^

[JayBirdHawk]

5 hours ago, NBASupes said:

With the OKC trade yesterday, Gallo is looking more and more like a waive more than a trade.

OKC still has $23 million in space to take Gallo.

[JayBirdHawk]

4 hours ago, Spud2nique said:

The above is if we move JC for a lotto pick, then acquire a star (disgruntled) down the road?…

How far down the road? Seems more like circling the wagon and avoiding the tax.

[NBASupes]

9 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

OKC still has $23 million in space to take Gallo.

I know they got the money,  its the assets they care most about 

[NBASupes]

5 hours ago, nathan2331 said:

But I'm not arguing that he's never gonna be healthy at all. I'm concerned about us going into the playoffs with injuries. Obviously you can't control everything and Capela is not the only player on the team who's played hurt. But I do think Capela's issues are concerning enough that if we can get a similar or better quality player for reasonable cost we should do it. If Bogi, Hunter or Collins could be swapped for healthier players of similar or better quality I'd be for it. But those players aren't available.

I just think what you saying is over the top. Capela been fairly healthy since he's been playing in Atlanta and he plays with injuries well compared to others on our squad outside of Trae 

[NBASupes]

16 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

How far down the road? Seems more like circling the wagon and avoiding the tax.

It has nothing to do with avoiding the tax is what I was told. Atlanta is willing to pay the tax. This is all about putting a championship core around Trae that fits Trae, especially on defense. That's why Okongwu and Hunter been off limits even if those two haven't been the beacon of offensive success for us.

[thecampster]

21 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

OKC still has $23 million in space to take Gallo.

Within this year's window, yes.  But 22-23, no.  There is one more year on that, so there is that consideration.

[Spud2nique]

28 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

I know they got the money,

Sounds like a friend ducking me. @kg01 Not naming names.

[thecampster]

1 hour ago, NBASupes said:

It has nothing to do with avoiding the tax is what I was told. Atlanta is willing to pay the tax. This is all about putting a championship core around Trae that fits Trae, especially on defense. That's why Okongwu and Hunter been off limits even if those two haven't been the beacon of offensive success for us.

Paying "the tax" is extremely vague.

Team 4 million over the tax threshold pay on non-repeater status pay $6 million in tax. (Total cost for that salary, 10 million).

Team 6 million over the tax threshold with repeater status pay $15.25 million in tax. (Total cost for that 6 million in salary, 21.25 million)

 

Now mull that over.  Repeat offender, 2 million more in salary = $9.25 million in tax.

 

Same team $15 million of the tax threshold with repeater status pays $43.5 million in tax. (Total cost for that 15 million more in salary, $58.5 million).  We have limits.

 

Are we willing to pay a tax? Sure!  But how much we are willing to be taxed and in future years is the mystery.

[sturt]

17 minutes ago, thecampster said:

Are we willing to pay a tax? Sure!  But how much we are willing to be taxed and in future years is the mystery.

I take people at face value until proven otherwise. Ressler's extended answer to that question last off-season is something we chewed on here in this room quite a bit. He drew the picture that once the team is established as a contender, then he can stomach going into the tax, but even then, only to keep core players. Seems reasonable enough to me.

Translation, given our present status: He wouldn't be okay with going into the tax just yet.