The cobbled together, stuff we held on to during the playoffs mega super rumor and team direction thread.

[Spud2nique]

2 minutes ago, marco102 said:

 

check out this post so you can understand. 

Oh my bad you did do this a min back cuz I remember Wainwright.

[thecampster]

2 minutes ago, marco102 said:

 

check out this post so you can understand. 

That ain't right. You can't package a player with an SnT.  Also on the failed trade, I'm not 100% sure that's accurate with the cap figure vs cap figure for trades. Not sure I'm trusting that trade calculator.

[JayBirdHawk]

29 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

Ayton cap hold is higher than his max. We wouldn't have any issues with BYC in regard to Ayton. He's not Kevin making that cheap rookie contract salary.

This is not correct.

Suns can only take back approximately $18 million in salary for Ayton, while he counts his full $30 mil in salary for other teams.

[NBASupes]

1 minute ago, thecampster said:

No. Even without Gallo we're at $136 million in salary.  We're over, they're over even after waivers/renouncing.  Both teams are over. Its a BYC situation. 20% salary raise, team will be over the cap when trade complete.

Gobert sounds more feasible. He can help us now and wouldn't cost as much. 

[georgia]

What would a Wiggins trade look like?   No way GSW keeps all those guys

[Spud2nique]

Just now, JayBirdHawk said:

This is not correct.

Suns can only take back approximately $18 million in salary for Ayton, while he counts his full $30 mil in salary for other teams.

That’s a perfect Capela and the what the #16 pick would be slotted to make in year one, no?

Just now, georgia said:

What would a Wiggins trade look like?   No way GSW keeps all those guys

 

[marco102]

3 minutes ago, thecampster said:

That ain't right. You can't package a player with an SnT.  Also on the failed trade, I'm not 100% sure that's accurate with the cap figure vs cap figure for trades. Not sure I'm trusting that trade calculator.

You're correct, but the this doesn't give the order of the trades which may be why it allows it. 

Also, I am showing that to just to illustrate the most complicated part, that neither Phx nor Atlanta can do a Capela Ayton swap without sending out additional salaries.

Edited June 6, 2022 by marco102

[NBASupes]

Just now, JayBirdHawk said:

This is not correct.

Suns can only take back approximately $18 million in salary for Ayton, while he counts his full $30 mil in salary for other teams.

I know now, I didn't know this before. No wonder why everything been centered around Capela and no other contracts going out on Atlanta's side and now, even the Bogi talks are starting to make sense. 

[NBASupes]

3 minutes ago, thecampster said:

That ain't right. You can't package a player with an SnT.  Also on the failed trade, I'm not 100% sure that's accurate with the cap figure vs cap figure for trades. Not sure I'm trusting that trade calculator.

How the hell did D'Angelo get traded for Durant with GS/Brooklyn? 

[JayBirdHawk]

36 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

 

2. Ayton cap hold is higher than his max. We wouldn't have any issues with BYC in regard to Ayton. He's not Kevin making that cheap rookie contract salary.

More...this is from the latest Athletic Article re: Ayton to Detroit via SnT:

Edwards: As you mentioned, Detroit can go after Ayton in restricted free agency, but a sign-and-trade involving Jerami Grant seems like an avenue that could benefit both sides. If Ayton leaves Phoenix, are you certain it is via sign-and-trade? Do you like the fit with Grant on the Suns?

Hollinger: Yes,  the Suns are almost certain to pursue a sign-and-trade if Ayton leaves because they just have no means to replace him otherwise. They can only take back $18.9 million and Grant makes $20.9 million, but this part is easily solvable with the addition of small contracts from Phoenix. 

[marco102]

2 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

How the hell did D'Angelo get traded for Durant with GS/Brooklyn? 

Weren't both players already at a max? If so, then the BYC rules don't apply.

[thecampster]

2 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

Gobert sounds more feasible. He can help us now and wouldn't cost as much. 

I have my thoughts on it.  I truly feel Gobert is a better fit next to JC, more mature than Ayton but I'm also not sure JC is staying if the trade is for Gobert. They could save salary by moving JC and moving JJ into the starting role or let him learn from the bench for 1 year behind Gallo.  Its a bit fluid there.  JJ can rebound, Gobert can rebound and both are very long. There is a cut game and a ball on the floor game that JJ brings that JC does not.  JC's spot up game, put back game and defensive feel is better at this point but JJ would be a great fit in 2 years across from Gobert (assuming he stays healthy/mobile).

I think JC the person would be a bigger loss than JC the player.  JC has heart and a good feel for his teammates/the locker room. I feel we might need that chemistry with all the older vets moving on the last few years.

[NBASupes]

1 minute ago, thecampster said:

I have my thoughts on it.  I truly feel Gobert is a better fit next to JC, more mature than Ayton but I'm also not sure JC is staying if the trade is for Gobert. They could save salary by moving JC and moving JJ into the starting role or let him learn from the bench for 1 year behind Gallo.  Its a bit fluid there.  JJ can rebound, Gobert can rebound and both are very long. There is a cut game and a ball on the floor game that JJ brings that JC does not.  JC's spot up game, put back game and defensive feel is better at this point but JJ would be a great fit in 2 years across from Gobert (assuming he stays healthy/mobile).

I think JC the person would be a bigger loss than JC the player.  JC has heart and a good feel for his teammates/the locker room. I feel we might need that chemistry with all the older vets moving on the last few years.

I like JC next to Gobert. I even like Okongwu next to Gobert due to his style of play. I want us to turn OO into a high end role player. JC already is one. 

It would probably cost us Kevin but yeah, I'll do Gobert for Capela and Kevin and call it a day. Ayton got too much red tape but I am pretty sure if Atlanta wants to do it, they will find a way.

[macdaddy]

14 minutes ago, Spud2nique said:

@macdaddy May I join you in the “confused boat “?

Yeah i think my confusion is that I'm reading into some of these posts that getting Ayton in a SNT is impossible (not accusing anyone of saying that, just my interpretation).   When in reality it's really not that hard.  Send out bogi/gallo.  Send Capela in a snt trade.   Or something like that.  

I know i'm about to get flamed that this is totally wrong but i'm pretty sure it is close.   

[JayBirdHawk]

3 minutes ago, macdaddy said:

Yeah i think my confusion is that I'm reading into some of these posts that getting Ayton in a SNT is impossible (not accusing anyone of saying that, just my interpretation).   When in reality it's really not that hard.  Send out bogi/gallo.  Send Capela in a snt trade.   Or something like that.  

I know i'm about to get flamed that this is totally wrong but i'm pretty sure it is close.   

Not impossible, just the limit on how much we can send to the Suns, so we'll need another team to send enough salary to take Ayton's full salary. Just like you have it above.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

16 hours ago, sturt said:

Not sure I understand.

Delon was signed specifically to be the backup PG. Specifically. The one off-season achievement that Schlenk acknowledged was a priority was to get a backup PG. So, it's not like there was ever any question what Delon's role would be. His role certainly evolved to include some off-ball, but it remained chiefly PG.

His top 3 5-man appearances in terms of total minutes did not include Trae, and 7 of his top 10 did not. Sum of his minutes w/o Trae in those top 10 was almost 400, while w/ Trae was about 120.

Beyond that, he was "ineffective" for good reason. He simply wasn't getting minutes. And worse, then the Great Recession hit, and when he did get minutes, it was routinely with guys who weren't part of the rotation.

It's not like this is anything uncommon among new PGs to a team... they need time with their new mates to get some chemistry going. So, while so many here were making snide remarks about him, even wanting him traded, there were a couple of us suggesting patience. And yes, that call was eventually validated.

Finally, "the issue" was that McM explicitly was quoted as saying that Delon would not be part of the rotation just at the time when Delon began to clearly turn that corner to being what he was hoped to be.

It made no sense.

It also was short-lived, as health issues compelled McM to get him back on the floor regularly after all.

And of course, by the play-ins and playoffs, there were times (*pats self on back*) when Delon wasn't just "an" asset (as it was promised by muah he would back-when his ample detractors were pissin/moanin)... he at times was cited as being the team's best asset.

That's how I saw/see it.

I hardly ever look at total minutes when looking at lineup pairings.  I look at the ner points per 100 poss column.  Delon was paired with Trae in 3 of his top 10 lineups, and all of the lineups were overwhelming positive. ( +16 or greater ).

[kg01]

29 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

Gobert sounds more feasible. He can help us now and wouldn't cost as much. 

Untruth. 

[NBASupes]

3 minutes ago, kg01 said:

Untruth. 

He won't in terms of trade value for obvious reason. 31 and his contract. Atlanta can offer a lot more. Capela and Kevin.

[thecampster]

20 minutes ago, macdaddy said:

Yeah i think my confusion is that I'm reading into some of these posts that getting Ayton in a SNT is impossible (not accusing anyone of saying that, just my interpretation).   When in reality it's really not that hard.  Send out bogi/gallo.  Send Capela in a snt trade.   Or something like that.  

I know i'm about to get flamed that this is totally wrong but i'm pretty sure it is close.   

Let me use your scenario.  1st waive Gallo. You aren't trading Gallo without taking back similar salary.  Down to $136 million salary + hold for 2022 pick ($3.46 mil).

Send Bogi to SAS for #9. Bogi salary $18 mil - cap hold of $4.95 mil (13.05 million cleared). New cap = $123 mil.  Now just to get under the cap, clear $2 million more....Say trade JC for (insert 20 million player here).  Okay, you are now under the cap but the problem is Phoenix is also over the cap by $8 million (active salaries only). You must now clear them under the cap by the amount of Ayton's outgoing salary + 8 million before engaging the trade for normal trade rules to apply.

Its a complicated mess for sure. Doable, yes in some universe but it ain't happening here without a fire sale.

[NBASupes]

2 minutes ago, thecampster said:

Let me use your scenario.  1st waive Gallo. You aren't trading Gallo without taking back similar salary.  Down to $136 million salary + hold for 2022 pick ($3.46 mil).

Send Bogi to SAS for #9. Bogi salary $18 mil - cap hold of $4.95 mil (13.05 million cleared). New cap = $123 mil.  Now just to get under the cap, clear $2 million more....Say trade JC for (insert 20 million player here).  Okay, you are now under the cap but the problem is Phoenix is also over the cap by $8 million (active salaries only). You must now clear them under the cap by the amount of Ayton's outgoing salary + 8 million before engaging the trade for normal trade rules to apply.

Its a complicated mess for sure. Doable, yes in some universe but it ain't happening here without a fire sale.

I am confused at the JC part. Why does JC have to go? Explain that again?