The cobbled together, stuff we held on to during the playoffs mega super rumor and team direction thread.

[thecampster]

4 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

He won't in terms of trade value for obvious reason. 31 and his contract. Atlanta can offer a lot more. Capela and Kevin.

I'm wincing at Capela and Kevin....not against it but I think Kevin has more value being on a long contract, cheaper than Bogi and considerably younger with better knees. Kevin is valuable. He may not be all world to us but other teams look at him and see oodles of potential on a competing roster.

 

One other thing to consider with Bogi, JC, Kevin, Hunter and their value.  Their stats do not tell the whole story.  They play in an offense where Trae gets 28 points for himself nightly and gets 10 points a night for CC.  They have little to no opportunity to create for themselves (something all 4 have shown they can do to some extent).  Teams, especially ones looking for an offensive lift and needing someone to put up shots see more in them than we do. We don't need people to hold the ball and put up shots. Some teams do.  The only one in this group that may have less in value than his stats show is Bogi due to his health concerns/age. The other 3 are worth more than their stats. Figure that in.

[thecampster]

2 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

I am confused at the JC part. Why does JC have to go? Explain that again?

Had to clear a few more million just to get us under the cap because we'd be taking back more than sending out in the end.

[NBASupes]

1 minute ago, thecampster said:

I'm wincing at Capela and Kevin....not against it but I think Kevin has more value being on a long contract, cheaper than Bogi and considerably younger with better knees. Kevin is valuable. He may not be all world to us but other teams look at him and see oodles of potential on a competing roster.

 

One other thing to consider with Bogi, JC, Kevin, Hunter and their value.  Their stats do not tell the whole story.  They play in an offense where Trae gets 28 points for himself nightly and gets 10 points a night for CC.  They have little to no opportunity to create for themselves (something all 4 have shown they can do to some extent).  Teams, especially ones looking for an offensive lift and needing someone to put up shots see more in them than we do. We don't need people to hold the ball and put up shots. Some teams do.  The only one in this group that may have less in value than his stats show is Bogi due to his health concerns/age. The other 3 are worth more than their stats. Figure that in.

I feel you, Bogi would be my ideal too but Kevin fits better next to Mitchell and he's someone I know Utah has spoke to Atlanta about. I haven't heard Bogi name and Utah mentioned and i already confirmed that JC and Okongwu are not available for a Gobert deal. Kevin just seems like the value that would put them over the top.

 

You like this deal: https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2956360-realistic-trades-to-rescue-nbas-top-young-stars

[thecampster]

In his scenario, he was trying to figure out why all the rules on an Ayton trade. In order for BYC to not kick in, they have to be under the cap when they complete the signing for Ayton.  In order for us to trade for $30 million in salary, and send out similar to what we bring in without going over the cap (to just eliminate rules altogether, we'd want to get under the cap too.  That's all.

[NBASupes]

Just now, thecampster said:

In his scenario, he was trying to figure out why all the rules on an Ayton trade. In order for BYC to not kick in, they have to be under the cap when they complete the signing for Ayton.  In order for us to trade for $30 million in salary, and send out similar to what we bring in without going over the cap (to just eliminate rules altogether, we'd want to get under the cap too.  That's all.

Let's try this again, you mean to tell me. If we just traded JC for Ayton and Craig, sent Craig and a NC contract to a 3rd team, we can't do it? Why? We would be within the BYC and would be able to take on Ayton contract? All of this getting under the cap doesn't make sense to me because it seems like the BYC terms remains the same

[thecampster]

3 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

I feel you, Bogi would be my ideal too but Kevin fits better next to Mitchell and he's someone I know Utah has spoke to Atlanta about. I haven't heard Bogi name and Utah mentioned and i already confirmed that JC and Okongwu are not available for a Gobert deal. Kevin just seems like the value that would put them over the top.

 

You like this deal: https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2956360-realistic-trades-to-rescue-nbas-top-young-stars

Clint Capela, Bogdan Bogdanovic, No. 16 pick is plenty.  The 2024 pick would be franchise suicide. You want that pick and you want it in the 20's for an end of the bench type on cheap salary you can develop. That's how winning teams secure dynasties. They shoot their shot on high risk, high reward types in the end of the 1st round.

[Diesel]

1 hour ago, JayBirdHawk said:

I think Ayton is seeking a max deal over everything else. I think there are 3 teams with capspace that can offer him a RFA deal.

As much as the Suns are open to a SnT, for teams with capspace there is no incentive for them to give up realky valuable assets, it rarely happens. (See Lonzo Ball and Demar DeRozan in recent past)

It's my understanding, that the Suns would be good with him finding a RFA max deal and they would match it because it's less than if they were to give him a max.   It probably has something to do with how many max players that they can have too.

 

[thecampster]

Just now, NBASupes said:

Let's try this again, you mean to tell me. If we just traded JC for Ayton and Craig, sent Craig and a NC contract to a 3rd team, we can't do it? Why? We would be within the BYC and would be able to take on Ayton contract? All of this getting under the cap doesn't make sense to me because it seems like the BYC terms remains the same

JC makes $23,500,000.  Ayton's trade amount would be $19 million max.  Now stay with me.  When you sign and trade you can sign and trade "that player" immediately. Not that player and another player to make up the difference.

You can trade that player for 1 and another player for another with the same team in a different order to even things out but all of the rules are the signed player for met salaries.  

Any columnist (including Hollinger) needs to check his rules.

 

The wording is odd but you are sending the player...no other assets, no picks, nothing.  The return can be multiple assets but the send is the player only. You can sign n trade the player in an immediate transaction.  This means you can't sign then bundle.

[thecampster]

and I'm out of Smurfs to give!!!

[sturt]

37 minutes ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

I hardly ever look at total minutes when looking at lineup pairings.  I look at the ner points per 100 poss column.  Delon was paired with Trae in 3 of his top 10 lineups, and all of the lineups were overwhelming positive. ( +16 or greater ).

Which is fine.

But the point remains.

And.

Have to confess, it surprised me to see that, of the 1,400-ish minutes played, Delon logged about 400 with Trae. Figured it might be half that, me.

[NBASupes]

Just now, thecampster said:

JC makes $23,500,000.  Ayton's trade amount would be $19 million max.  Now stay with me.  When you sign and trade you can sign and trade "that player" immediately. Not that player and another player to make up the difference.

You can trade that player for 1 and another player for another with the same team in a different order to even things out but all of the rules are the signed player for met salaries.  

Any columnist (including Hollinger) needs to check his rules.

 

The wording is odd but you are sending the player...no other assets, no picks, nothing.  The return can be multiple assets but the send is the player only. You can sign n trade the player in an immediate transaction.  This means you can't sign then bundle.

How about you do a Bogi for Ayton deal but add Capela. What would need to happen for this deal to happen? Would Shamet need to be in the deal? Also, Atlanta would still have to cover for 7.5 million for just Bogi along. Let's try that and go from there.

[thecampster]

Just now, NBASupes said:

How about you do a Bogi for Ayton deal but add Capela. What would need to happen for this deal to happen? Would Shamet need to be in the deal? Also, Atlanta would still have to cover for 7.5 million for just Bogi along. Let's try that and go from there.

You aren't going to like this but they need a center back. So you're looking at something like OO and Hunter for Ayton.

[NBASupes]

4 minutes ago, thecampster said:

JC makes $23,500,000.  Ayton's trade amount would be $19 million max.  Now stay with me.  When you sign and trade you can sign and trade "that player" immediately. Not that player and another player to make up the difference.

You can trade that player for 1 and another player for another with the same team in a different order to even things out but all of the rules are the signed player for met salaries.  

Any columnist (including Hollinger) needs to check his rules.

 

The wording is odd but you are sending the player...no other assets, no picks, nothing.  The return can be multiple assets but the send is the player only. You can sign n trade the player in an immediate transaction.  This means you can't sign then bundle.

If I recall, there was a lot of players in Lonzo SnT and Durant/DLo SnT. 

[thecampster]

Which also means you're going to be adding some draft assets.

 

[NBASupes]

3 minutes ago, thecampster said:

You aren't going to like this but they need a center back. So you're looking at something like OO and Hunter for Ayton.

I could care less about the names, I am just trying to see what is feasible. Is Bogi for Ayton cap wise feasible? Even if Atlanta would still be 7.5 mil short of the 30.5 max?

I am not worried about the players at this moment. I just want to know what is feasible. In terms of players only. We will leave the picks to Travis, Landry, and Michelle. 

Edited June 6, 2022 by NBASupes

[NBASupes]

The KD deal and Ball SnT took place with multiple players

https://www.google.com/search?q=lonzo+ball+sign+and+trade&hl=en&biw=412&bih=670&sxsrf=ALiCzsZh1G1FWF0sW2xbHzBdvv70zEUY5w%3A1654551735370&ei=t3SeYuKaFqStqtsPndWDqAo&oq=lonzo+ball+sivn&gs_lcp=ChNtb2JpbGUtZ3dzLXdpei1zZXJwEAEYADIECAAQDTIECAAQDTIECAAQDTIECAAQDTIECAAQDTIECAAQDTIECAAQDTIGCAAQHhANOgcIIxCwAxAnOgcIABBHELADOgQIIxAnOgUIABCRAjoFCAAQgAQ6BggAEB4QFjoNCAAQgAQQhwIQsQMQFDoICAAQgAQQsQM6CggAEIAEEIcCEBRKBAhBGABQqwRYuwtg4RRoAXABeACAAaQBiAGUBZIBAzEuNJgBAKABAcgBCcABAQ&sclient=mobile-gws-wiz-serp

[thecampster]

7 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

If I recall, there was a lot of players in Lonzo SnT and Durant/DLo SnT. 

GSW sent a pick, Nets sent 2 other players. Although media talked about it as one deal, I believe it was 2 simultaneous deals....

[warcore]

14 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

If I recall, there was a lot of players in Lonzo SnT and Durant/DLo SnT. 

To make it simple, the team doing the S&T cannot add any other assets to the S&T. (Re: adding Shamet - can't add anything to Ayton)

Edited June 6, 2022 by warcore

[NBASupes]

9 minutes ago, thecampster said:

GSW sent a pick, Nets sent 2 other players. Although media talked about it as one deal, I believe it was 2 simultaneous deals....

Hawks need to do that. Do two deals. An Ayton deal and a Capela deal. Bogi and picks for Ayton. Capela for Shamet and Saric. Hell. You can even do a Kevin for Ayton deal. 

Edited June 6, 2022 by NBASupes

[NBASupes]

4 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

Hawks need to do that. Do two deals. An Ayton deal and a Capela deal. Bogi and picks for Ayton. Capela for Shamet and Saric. Hell. You can even do a Kevin for Ayton deal. 

@thecampster, what's stopping this from happening? If Atlanta offers this, it's the best on the market.