The cobbled together, stuff we held on to during the playoffs mega super rumor and team direction thread.

[JTB]

47 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

What this does if we do a double trade is it gives PHX Bogi if he doesn't take his trade kicker which also f*cks the deal up, or Kevin who's probably the guy for Ayton. Kevin makes 14.5 million. This adds 14.5 million to PHX salary cap. Atlanta also trades Capela at 19.7. This adds all together 34.2 million to PHX cap. Saric and Shamet are 18.7 million. This saves PHX 18.7 million. 

Atlanta adds 49.2 million to their cap with Ayton, Shamet, and Saric which is three players. 

If this is all the hawks or any team would have to do to land Ayton then essentially Phx could get any player they convey from teams interested in Ayton that’s reasonable for Aytons talents ….correct?

 If that’s the case I don’t know if I have as much confidence that the hawks are the favorites. After reading all these post and coming to some form of understanding on the rules I’m starting to wonder ok …do we really offer the suns the best package?….at one point I thought we really did have the best deal on the table to phx but now it seems like the competition is real for Ayton and man that sucks!

[JTB]

@marco102 you sir made some exceptional comments regarding Ayton! Thank you…couldn’t have been stated any better.

I really hope we can land that kid to play with Trae.

[marco102]

9 minutes ago, JTB said:

If this is all the hawks or any team would have to do to land Ayton then essentially Phx could get any player they convey from teams interested in Ayton that’s reasonable for Aytons talents ….correct?

 If that’s the case I don’t know if I have as much confidence that the hawks are the favorites. After reading all these post and coming to some form of understanding on the rules I’m starting to wonder ok …do we really offer the suns the best package?….at one point I thought we really did have the best deal on the table to phx but now it seems like the competition is real for Ayton and man that sucks!

What makes the Hawks deal the best is Phx is getting a top 10 center.  No other team can offer that.  

It keeps Phx competitive while reducing their tax burden. 

[NBASupes]

7 minutes ago, JTB said:

If this is all the hawks or any team would have to do to land Ayton then essentially Phx could get any player they convey from teams interested in Ayton that’s reasonable for Aytons talents ….correct?

 If that’s the case I don’t know if I have as much confidence that the hawks are the favorites. After reading all these post and coming to some form of understanding on the rules I’m starting to wonder ok …do we really offer the suns the best package?….at one point I thought we really did have the best deal on the table to phx but now it seems like the competition is real for Ayton and man that sucks!

It's never gonna be easy. Essentially, this gives teams who had no shot like Toronto a shot. Teams PHX couldn't work with, they can now. Like I said, Atlanta could do multiple deals which benefit both teams. If Atlanta lands Ayton, Capela needs to be moved. This gets PHX out of Shamet deal and out of Saric or Crowder 1 year deal. 

Technically, DET can do the same. They can do a Kelly Olynyk and I Stewart deal for Ayton and a separate deal for Grant like Grant for Shamet and Saric. Not sure if that deal hits the spot tho. 

I would like Atlanta to move Shamet to a 3rd team that needs shooting for cap relief. Atlanta could sign Wright back or if they land Micic, they can sign him to a deal. The SnT max makes it hard to really do too much. 

[sturt]

1 hour ago, NBASupes said:

We just gotta be Morey like. That's all. 

 

Excuse me?

 

In what universe did Morey ever win something?

 

Big deals, sure. Nothing to show for it.

 

Pass.

[JayBirdHawk]

24 minutes ago, JTB said:

After reading all these post and coming to some form of understanding on the rules I’m starting to wonder ok …do we really offer the suns the best package?….at one point I thought we really did have the best deal on the table to phx but now it seems like the competition is real for Ayton and man that sucks

Look at the last few SnT deals and see what teams gave up. Hawks should definitely NOT overpay.

What helps Atlanta is having Capela as the trade chip since Suns still want to remain competitive.

[NBASupes]

2 minutes ago, sturt said:

 

Excuse me?

 

In what universe did Morey ever win something?

 

Big deals, sure. Nothing to show for it.

 

Pass.

He made plenty of creative deals, especially in the building phase like the Harden trade.

1 minute ago, JayBirdHawk said:

Look at the last few SnT deals and see what teams gave up. Hawks should definitely NOT overpay.

Ayton is more like Iso Joe. Meaning its gonna cost you.

[sturt]

4 minutes ago, sturt said:

 

Excuse me?

 

In what universe did Morey ever win something?

 

Big deals, sure. Nothing to show for it.

 

Pass.

 

( @bird_dirt ... watch this... hehe... )

 

*bump*

[JayBirdHawk]

3 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

He made plenty of creative deals, especially in the building phase like the Harden trade.

Ayton is more like Iso Joe. Meaning its gonna cost you.

How long ago was that Joe deal. The Joe deal was at a time when matching equal money was an option, new cap rules changed that.

Look to more recent SnT deals and the ramifications of the BYC in how it has affected SnT deals. It makes it more difficult for the receiving team since they are taking on full salary vs the other team receiving half. Meaning the receiving team has to clear salary which may or may not require compensation to a 3rd team.

[warcore]

8 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

Ayton is more like Iso Joe. Meaning its gonna cost you.

I agree with supes on this one.... DeRozan and Ball were not highly valued at the time of their S&Ts. Ayton would be a borderline all star signed in his prime, much like Joe was. I hated giving up the two 1sts in that trade but I think it was worth it in the long run. 

[NBASupes]

6 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

How long ago was that Joe deal. The Joe deal was at a time when matching equal money was an option, new cap rules changed that.

Look to more recent SnT deals and the ramifications of the BYC in how it has affected SnT deals. It makes it more difficult for the receiving team since they are taking on full salary vs the other team receiving half. Meaning the receiving team has to clear salary which may or may not require compensation to a 3rd team.

You generally dont have max guys in SnT deals that finished rookie deals. You have Iso Joe, Russell and who else?

A PHX cap guy is saying PHX can add players to the deal which means JC or Capela could be moved.

Edited June 7, 2022 by NBASupes

[JayBirdHawk]

4 minutes ago, warcore said:

I agree with supes on this one.... DeRozan and Ball were not highly valued at the time of their S&Ts. Ayton would be a borderline all star signed in his prime, much like Joe was. I hated giving up the two 1sts in that trade but I think it was worth it in the long run. 

Like I indicated above SnT deals were easier then with equal matching salary for both teams.

[JayBirdHawk]

10 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

You generally dont have max guys in SnT deals that finished rookie deals. You have Iso Joe, Russell and who else?

A PHX cap guy is saying PHX can add players to the deal which means JC or Capela could be moved.

SnTs are just rare since it hard caps your team as well. Article from 2019 but still good info:

https://www.hoopsrumors.com/2019/06/why-nba-sign-and-trades-are-rare-2.html

[NBASupes]

6 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

SnTs are just rare since it hard caps your team as well. Article from 2019 but still good info:

https://www.hoopsrumors.com/2019/06/why-nba-sign-and-trades-are-rare-2.html

It only hard caps your team if you are over the LT by 7 million or more. 

[JayBirdHawk]

1 minute ago, NBASupes said:

It only hard caps your team if you are over the LT by 7 million or more. 

....and what do we need to do to avoid being hard capped?  Trade good NBA players and sign vet min players that may not be as impactful as the players we moved to avoid the hard cap. 

That's the trade off - not so great depth unless you hit on the right vet min player.

[GameTime]

These Grant rumors won't die, will they? @Sothron @NBASupes @thecampster

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/10037843-jerami-grant-trade-rumors-hawks-interested-in-pistons-sf-ahead-of-2022-nba-draft

[JTB]

42 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

Look at the last few SnT deals and see what teams gave up. Hawks should definitely NOT overpay.

What helps Atlanta is having Capela as the trade chip since Suns still want to remain competitive.

I don’t agree on this. I believe Ayton will be an consistent all star if he were in Atlanta. 
 

I think if there’s potential to get Trae a highly skilled offensive player that has all star worthiness and happens to be a center then you go all out when that opportunity presents itself.

 

Not being aggressive is why this Franchise has not progressed the way they want to. Holding on to players who are being overvalued just because they’re a Hawk. We finally land a true star in Trae….now is not the time to sit on your hands. I’m not insinuating  schlenk is doing that of course I think he’s doing the opposite and has actually shown more aggressiveness than the past 3-4 GMs we’ve had.

[JayBirdHawk]

1 minute ago, GameTime said:

These Grant rumors won't die, will they? @Sothron @NBASupes @thecampster

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/10037843-jerami-grant-trade-rumors-hawks-interested-in-pistons-sf-ahead-of-2022-nba-draft

You gotta love all outlets repeating the same rumor over and over....

What the Hawks would be willing to give up in a Grant trade may determine whether they're serious suitors. A package of Danillo Gallinari and the No. 16 pick in June's draft would work under the salary cap but would likely fall well short of the Pistons' expectations, especially given how they still value Grant.

The Hawks could also add 2021 first-round pick Jalen Johnson or center Onyeka Okungwu in talks, though Okungwu emerged as a valuable reserve last season. They might not be willing to attach first-round picks beyond 2022 in any trade for Grant, who is playing on an expiring contract and may seek an extension as part of trade talks.

 

The bolded and underlined is why the Detroit ask is nonstarter.

[NBASupes]

2 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

....and what do we need to do to avoid being hard capped?  Trade good NBA players and sign vet min players that may not be as impactful as the players we moved to avoid the hard cap. 

That's the trade off - not so great depth unless you hit on the right vet min player.

I already explained how you do. 

For example, since the Suns guy is saying that you can add players, that gives us flexibility to trade Bogi for a pick which they are already looking at. 

Since Bogi is moved. That's 18 mil out

Gallo could be moved but let's say he's cut. 17.5 mil out

Ayton deal. JC for Ayton and Saric. 

That's 23.5 mil out. 40 million in. 

Capela for lets say, to Washington for Deni Avdija and KCP that's 18.9 in, 19.8 out. 

That's 58.9 million in with 4 players + Gallo 5 mil. 

That's around 78 out with 4 players. 

We still have a lot of money. Just saying. You add a draft pick for Bogi and 16th. We are in a good spot honestly. 11 players, resign Wright. Sign a FA. And we are good. 

[JayBirdHawk]

3 minutes ago, JTB said:

I don’t agree on this. I believe Ayton will be an consistent all star if he were in Atlanta. 
 

I think if there’s potential to get Trae a highly skilled offensive player that has all star worthiness and happens to be a center then you go all out when that opportunity presents itself.

 

Not being aggressive is why this Franchise has not progressed the way they want to. Holding on to players who are being overvalued just because they’re a Hawk. We finally land a true star in Trae….now is not the time to sit on your hands. I’m not insinuating  schlenk is doing that of course I think he’s doing the opposite and has actually shown more aggressiveness than the past 3-4 GMs we’ve had.

My preference in being aggressive is getting and overpaying for wing players rather than Center - that's just my stance.