The cobbled together, stuff we held on to during the playoffs mega super rumor and team direction thread.

[sturt]

19 minutes ago, theheroatl said:

If a player's name has enough smoke on the rumor mill, they're on the block.

Welcome to your opinion.

Some of us believe that's a take very lacking in critical thought.

But. You're welcome to your opinion. Free country.

[Watchman]

3 hours ago, theheroatl said:

JC, Huerter, Bogi, Capela, and Gallo are on the block. It's not a matter of if but when they get traded.

Hunter, Okongwu, and Trae are NOT on the block.

If JC, Capela and the others you mention are on the block, why would Okongwu not be on the block?  He is the poster child for mediocrity.  He is Capela 2.0 on offense (perhaps a few less missed bunnies).  He has no range beyond a few feet away from the basket.  He is no where near the rebounder Capela is.  He is not capable of finishing PnR plays like Collins or Capela do.  I don't understand the fascination with him.  

Edited June 10, 2022 by Watchman

[Spud2nique]

Just now, Watchman said:

why would Okongwu not be on the block? 

Because he’s not getting traded. Him or Trae. I guarantee it. If he is, I’ll change my name to kgGROUPIEGUYGONZO! 

[Watchman]

Just now, Spud2nique said:

Because he’s not getting traded. Him or Trae. I guarantee it. If he is, I’ll change my name to kgGROUPIEGUYGONZO! 

In other words, because our management is clueless.

[Spud2nique]

2 minutes ago, Watchman said:

He is the poster child for mediocrity. 

@Wretch COME GET YA BOY 

[kg01]

16 minutes ago, Watchman said:

If JC, Capela and the others you mention are on the block, why would Okongwu not be on the block?  He is the poster child for mediocrity.  He is Capela 2.0 on offense (perhaps a few less missed bunnies).  He has no range beyond a few feet away from the basket.  He is no where near the rebounder Capela is.  He is not capable of finishing PnR plays like Collins or Capela do.  I don't understand the fascination with him.  

I'll say this, the criticism about his offensive game is warranted.  But I think you may be viewing him in an ultra win-now lens, so you're not acknowledging how early he is in his career.

He was always a 'green' prospect, offensively.  But what he has shown is a really high defensive iq and he's been able to be effective there regardless of his size limitations.

Long story long, I see the same warts you do, but I also see that he's been a plus contributor due to his defensive acumen.  That shouldn't be ignored, especially for a team starving for some defensive stingers out there.

Granted, he shouldn't be considered ultra-untouchable either ... if a clear upgrade is available.

[theheroatl]

If you have questions on why some players are being shopped and some aren’t then just look at player development. If management thinks a player has peaked in their development it is time to sell or keep. If a player is on a rookie contract and still developing the smart thing would be to only trade them if they don’t have measureables or is a locker room disturbance or is caught in position log jam with a better player ahead of them that is roughly around the same time of their development.

John Collins, Kevin Huerter, Bogi, and Capela all fit the mold of the first part.

If you can separate the player relationships to the roster management and see the chess pieces on the board for what they truly are then maybe some of y’all can understand future moves before they happen.

Edited June 10, 2022 by theheroatl

[sturt]

28 minutes ago, Spud2nique said:

Because he’s not getting traded. Him or Trae. I guarantee it. If he is, I’ll change my name to kgGROUPIEGUYGONZO! 

Oooohhhhh... he went straight past the double-dog-dare... flew past the awe-inspiring triple-dog-dare... darted even beyond the avatar bet dare... and to the change-my-username dare.

[BangHolman]

49 minutes ago, Watchman said:

If JC, Capela and the others you mention are on the block, why would Okongwu not be on the block?  He is the poster child for mediocrity.  He is Capela 2.0 on offense (perhaps a few less missed bunnies).  He has no range beyond a few feet away from the basket.  He is no where near the rebounder Capela is.  He is not capable of finishing PnR plays like Collins or Capela do.  I don't understand the fascination with him.  

He's still just a 21 y/o kid who has shown flashes to be elite on defense with a high basketball IQ. He also hasn't had an off-season to work on his offensive game, but all indicators point to him being able to shot a mid-range jumper. He's also a much better passer than Capela. He's not on the block because he's still on his rookie contract and this is the first time we can train him in an off-season.

[JTB]

I don’t know if the Pop comments regarding Ayton are real or not but apparently Pop expressed some real excitement wanting Ayton and stating that Ayton is a max player with lots of talent that he’d love to help turn into a Superstar.

 

again I don’t know if the comments are true or not but if they are… it’s funny how pop a legend can see the big time talent in Ayton that hasn’t been used and sees him as a max player but there’s some on this board that has the audacity to put Ayton and Collins on the same high end potential level!

smh…as good as JC is he is overall he is not Ayton offensively even right now in my opinion. Ayton reminds me so much of the Joe Johnson phx trade situation. It’s an all star level player just not getting the opportunity. Once Joe Johnson got here and he got more opportunity, became Iso Joe a multi time all star. That’s going to happen to Ayton at his next destination I guarantee it!

 

….I will keep preaching it! I’d sell the house to get Ayton here and rebuild in the middle of Trae & Ayton. The hardest thing when building a champion is getting the two stars. Once they are in place you can add best fitting role players in my opinion.

 

we are not winning a championship next season we have time.

[marco102]

16 minutes ago, JTB said:

I don’t know if the Pop comments regarding Ayton are real or not but apparently Pop expressed some real excitement wanting Ayton and stating that Ayton is a max player with lots of talent that he’d love to help turn into a Superstar.

 

again I don’t know if the comments are true or not but if they are… it’s funny how pop a legend can see the big time talent in Ayton that hasn’t been used and sees him as a max player but there’s some on this board that has the audacity to put Ayton and Collins on the same high end potential level!

smh…as good as JC is he is overall he is not Ayton offensively even right now in my opinion. Ayton reminds me so much of the Joe Johnson phx trade situation. It’s an all star level player just not getting the opportunity. Once Joe Johnson got here and he got more opportunity, became Iso Joe a multi time all star. That’s going to happen to Ayton at his next destination I guarantee it!

 

….I will keep preaching it! I’d sell the house to get Ayton here and rebuild in the middle of Trae & Ayton. The hardest thing when building a champion is getting the two stars. Once they are in place you can add best fitting role players in my opinion.

 

we are not winning a championship next season we have time.

I wouldn't do that.  If it's Capela and pick(s)....I'm down for it. 

[JTB]

4 minutes ago, marco102 said:

I wouldn't do that.  If it's Capela and pick(s)....I'm down for it. 

I would do Capela + JC no picks. Move OO to the starting lineup and even if he doesn’t have an improved jumpshot it shouldn’t impact the offense since Ayton has a more than solid mid range game but I’m also a firm believer in a player like OO. That kid stated in his exit interview that he’s going to come back next season with a jumpshot and I truly believe he will.

[marco102]

1 minute ago, JTB said:

I would do Capela + JC no picks. Move OO to the starting lineup and even if he doesn’t have an improved jumpshot it shouldn’t impact the offense since Ayton has a more than solid mid range game but I’m also a firm believer in a player like OO. That kid stated in his exit interview that he’s going to come back next season with a jumpshot and I truly believe he will.

Y'all need to stop trying to get rid of JC.  That doesn't even make sense capwise.  You aren't trading JC to PHX because they won't have the capspace.  

Who are you trading JC to for no picks? 

 

[Diesel]

1 hour ago, Spud2nique said:

Because he’s not getting traded. Him or Trae. I guarantee it. If he is, I’ll change my name to kgGROUPIEGUYGONZO! 

I think you just need a reason!

[kg01]

1 hour ago, Spud2nique said:

Because he’s not getting traded. Him or Trae. I guarantee it. If he is, I’ll change my name to kgGROUPIEGUYGONZO! 

I often wonder if @gonzo is ... still alive.

[Diesel]

1 hour ago, kg01 said:

I'll say this, the criticism about his offensive game is warranted.  But I think you may be viewing him in an ultra win-now lens, so you're not acknowledging how early he is in his career.

He was always a 'green' prospect, offensively.  But what he has shown is a really high defensive iq and he's been able to be effective there regardless of his size limitations.

Long story long, I see the same warts you do, but I also see that he's been a plus contributor due to his defensive acumen.  That shouldn't be ignored, especially for a team starving for some defensive stingers out there.

Granted, he shouldn't be considered ultra-untouchable either ... if a clear upgrade is available.

I have to go with Watchman a little on this one.

People say he has "a really high defensive IQ"...

Nope...  Disagree.

He's reactive.  He's fast.  He has shot blocking timing..  BUT.  Positionally he gets cooked.  He still goes for upfakes. He is a ball follower but High defensive IQ... no.  That's reserved for guys who knows where the ball is going to be and they beat the ball to the spot.   That's reserved for players who know their opponents tendencies and do not allow them to get position.   The reason why OO fell into the Sophomore slump this season is because teams figured out that he just follows the ball and is not a high Defensive BB IQ.  So they started with pump fakes and up fakes.  Then they moved to ball rotation. 

Here's the thing.. he's younger and more athletic than CC right now.. but CC has a better defensive BBIQ.

If you want to know what a high defensive BBIQ looks like, watch Delon Wright.  He's always in the right place to disrupt the offense.   Before the ball is in the air.. he knows what the other team wants to do. 

Back to OO... OO can definitely raise his BBIQ.. I mean about mid season, he stop going for the upfake as much...  His placement is getting better... but right now, he's more potential on both sides of the ball and we need to quit acting as if his defense is stellar.  He's a lesser good Josh Smith.  Reactive and Athletic.

 

[Diesel]

1 hour ago, theheroatl said:

If you have questions on why some players are being shopped and some aren’t then just look at player development. If management thinks a player has peaked in their development it is time to sell or keep. If a player is on a rookie contract and still developing the smart thing would be to only trade them if they don’t have measureables or is a locker room disturbance or is caught in position log jam with a better player ahead of them that is roughly around the same time of their development.

 

Babcock... Is that you??

[JTB]

27 minutes ago, marco102 said:

Y'all need to stop trying to get rid of JC.  That doesn't even make sense capwise.  You aren't trading JC to PHX because they won't have the capspace.  

Who are you trading JC to for no picks? 

 

Forgot. Im just in a zone. So let me rephrase I would ship JC and a pick to the Suns for Ayton only as JC is a lot more enticing on the market than capela in my opinion and the suns probably resign McGee if he’s not already signed long term and maybe send us back some fillers so it will make sense capwise.

so the real question is who are we then trading capela to and I believe we could move capela fairly easy to team like the raptors, bulls (maybe, I think vucevic is a free agent), mavs even.

 

 

[Diesel]

1 hour ago, JTB said:

I don’t know if the Pop comments regarding Ayton are real or not but apparently Pop expressed some real excitement wanting Ayton and stating that Ayton is a max player with lots of talent that he’d love to help turn into a Superstar.

 

again I don’t know if the comments are true or not but if they are… it’s funny how pop a legend can see the big time talent in Ayton that hasn’t been used and sees him as a max player but there’s some on this board that has the audacity to put Ayton and Collins on the same high end potential level!

smh…as good as JC is he is overall he is not Ayton offensively even right now in my opinion. Ayton reminds me so much of the Joe Johnson phx trade situation. It’s an all star level player just not getting the opportunity. Once Joe Johnson got here and he got more opportunity, became Iso Joe a multi time all star. That’s going to happen to Ayton at his next destination I guarantee it!

 

….I will keep preaching it! I’d sell the house to get Ayton here and rebuild in the middle of Trae & Ayton. The hardest thing when building a champion is getting the two stars. Once they are in place you can add best fitting role players in my opinion.

 

we are not winning a championship next season we have time.

It's different because Ayton is a C.  It's common for Guard/Forwards to not get looks.  But a dominant Center can always get the ball.. especially with CP3 at the point.  I've watched Ayton too and I believe that offensively, he has all the moves.  I mean all of them.  However, for some reason, at the same time that he's offensively skilled, I question his motivation.   Usually a skilled player (like him) has an itch to get the ball and dominate.   I think Ayton is too much of a gen Zer... he doesn't want to dominate.  He seems to take offensive possession off. It's perplexing.   Shaq didn't have all the moves, but he always wanted the ball because he believed that he can dominate.   I don't see that same fire in Ayton.  It seems that fans and FO people have more faith in him that he has in himself. 

This is probably what Popp sees too.   Popp has worked with star players before and I believe Popp knows that if I can get him, I can Tim Duncan him.  Whereas Monty Williams is having a hard time understanding what to do with Ayton...Popp has taken an Uber skilled non-dominate personality and made him into a dominating force. 

 

[GThawks3]

1 hour ago, JTB said:

I don’t know if the Pop comments regarding Ayton are real or not but apparently Pop expressed some real excitement wanting Ayton and stating that Ayton is a max player with lots of talent that he’d love to help turn into a Superstar.

 

again I don’t know if the comments are true or not but if they are… it’s funny how pop a legend can see the big time talent in Ayton that hasn’t been used and sees him as a max player but there’s some on this board that has the audacity to put Ayton and Collins on the same high end potential level!

smh…as good as JC is he is overall he is not Ayton offensively even right now in my opinion. Ayton reminds me so much of the Joe Johnson phx trade situation. It’s an all star level player just not getting the opportunity. Once Joe Johnson got here and he got more opportunity, became Iso Joe a multi time all star. That’s going to happen to Ayton at his next destination I guarantee it!

 

….I will keep preaching it! I’d sell the house to get Ayton here and rebuild in the middle of Trae & Ayton. The hardest thing when building a champion is getting the two stars. Once they are in place you can add best fitting role players in my opinion.

 

we are not winning a championship next season we have time.

Huh? You think Ayton isn’t getting the opportunity but JC does? Ayton has more usage than Jc did this year. Both were treated like 3rd/4th options. 
 

Ayton has the 4 perimeter guys playing with him at all times. Perfect fit around him offensively. Collins doesn’t fit great with Capela and hurts his number. Bet any amount throw a meh fit around Ayton and his numbers would go down. I like him but not seeing JJ at all.