The cobbled together, stuff we held on to during the playoffs mega super rumor and team direction thread.

[sturt]

On 4/27/2022 at 9:25 AM, thecampster said:

Campster as Hawksquawk Jesus... I love it.

Rated five cackles.

 

 

[Diesel]

44 minutes ago, JTB said:

I would do Capela + JC no picks. Move OO to the starting lineup and even if he doesn’t have an improved jumpshot it shouldn’t impact the offense since Ayton has a more than solid mid range game but I’m also a firm believer in a player like OO. That kid stated in his exit interview that he’s going to come back next season with a jumpshot and I truly believe he will.

Then you don't understand Basketball.  Or atleast not Hawks basketball. 

Trae is a transcendent player.   But he must have a few things.  And we're never going to get around this..

1.  PNR/PNP basketball. 

Trae is not Iverson who will give up his body for the score inside.  Trae is not Steph, who can shoot the lights out until the lane opens up for him.   Trae has a lot of Nash in him.  But Nash couldn't score like Trae.   The Trae Young goat float is predicated on the ability for him to make the PNR/PNP a constant threat. 

We found the problem with OO.  He is not great on the PNR.   He has a need to bring the ball  back down everytime he gets it.  It kills the PNR... when you watch Clint and when you watch JC.. they are experts at flying high and catching the lob...  We run it through double screens, we run it through back doors, and we run it through regular PNRs.  It was painful watching OO trying to do it because ultimately he would always come down with it.  Once.. he showed that he could finish without coming down.. I believe it shocked him.  It was in our win vs. Miami.   But that's once all season. 

2.  Outside threat.

I don't get why people are so in a hurry to trade JC.  His Near 40% from three makes him our Kevin Love.   He stretches defenses simply by being out there.   This gives the PNR room to work and it also opens the floor for Hunter whenever he gets his ass off the three point line. 

 

What we beat Philly and NY with in the playoffs last year was this type of play which creating spacing for Trae to work all of his magic. 

We beat us against Miami was the lack of this kind of spacing and gave Miami the ability to key in on Trae with Three defenders at all times. 

So we get Ayton and move OO to PF as some want to do.  OO has never hit a three point and has only shot 3 in his pro career.  So he's not going to stretch the floor.  He's not a good PNR partner yet... and that nuisance is a nuisance.   Not every player can be a finisher on the PNR.  It's reserved for guy who attack the basket...

 

 

[Spud2nique]

1 hour ago, sturt said:

Oooohhhhh... he went straight past the double-dog-dare... flew past the awe-inspiring triple-dog-dare... darted even beyond the avatar bet dare... and to the change-my-username dare.

You’re all lucky this is a family show cuz I would do other more unimaginable things… 

[JayBirdHawk]

On the block, rumored to be on the block, not on the block,.....the only player not in trade rumors is Trae. 

It's the silly season, don't take it so seriously.

[Spud2nique]

1 hour ago, JTB said:

I would do Capela + JC no picks. Move OO to the starting lineup and even if he doesn’t have an improved jumpshot it shouldn’t impact the offense since Ayton has a more than solid mid range game but I’m also a firm believer in a player like OO. That kid stated in his exit interview that he’s going to come back next season with a jumpshot and I truly believe he will.

JTB! Yessss sir!

[terrell]

44 minutes ago, Diesel said:

Then you don't understand Basketball.  Or atleast not Hawks basketball. 

Trae is a transcendent player.   But he must have a few things.  And we're never going to get around this..

1.  PNR/PNP basketball. 

Trae is not Iverson who will give up his body for the score inside.  Trae is not Steph, who can shoot the lights out until the lane opens up for him.   Trae has a lot of Nash in him.  But Nash couldn't score like Trae.   The Trae Young goat float is predicated on the ability for him to make the PNR/PNP a constant threat. 

We found the problem with OO.  He is not great on the PNR.   He has a need to bring the ball  back down everytime he gets it.  It kills the PNR... when you watch Clint and when you watch JC.. they are experts at flying high and catching the lob...  We run it through double screens, we run it through back doors, and we run it through regular PNRs.  It was painful watching OO trying to do it because ultimately he would always come down with it.  Once.. he showed that he could finish without coming down.. I believe it shocked him.  It was in our win vs. Miami.   But that's once all season. 

2.  Outside threat.

I don't get why people are so in a hurry to trade JC.  His Near 40% from three makes him our Kevin Love.   He stretches defenses simply by being out there.   This gives the PNR room to work and it also opens the floor for Hunter whenever he gets his ass off the three point line. 

 

What we beat Philly and NY with in the playoffs last year was this type of play which creating spacing for Trae to work all of his magic. 

We beat us against Miami was the lack of this kind of spacing and gave Miami the ability to key in on Trae with Three defenders at all times. 

So we get Ayton and move OO to PF as some want to do.  OO has never hit a three point and has only shot 3 in his pro career.  So he's not going to stretch the floor.  He's not a good PNR partner yet... and that nuisance is a nuisance.   Not every player can be a finisher on the PNR.  It's reserved for guy who attack the basket...

 

 

So why the fk we draft a 4/5 PF/C tweener at #6 overall who cant shoot and isnt great at the pick and roll? Makes no sense..

Edited June 10, 2022 by terrell

[NBASupes]

17 minutes ago, terrell said:

So why the fk we draft a 4/5 PF/C tweener at #6 overall who cant shoot and isnt great at the pick and roll? Makes no sense..

Must be Diesel's perception because stat wise, Okongwu is rated the best movement big in the NBA just based on data. He showcases good defense and has elite defensive talent. Okongwu isn't a tweener defensively. He's a 4 that can play the 5 as well but less effectively. A defensive tweener is someone like Joe Alexander or Bruno. 

[JTB]

1 hour ago, Diesel said:

Then you don't understand Basketball.  Or atleast not Hawks basketball. 

Trae is a transcendent player.   But he must have a few things.  And we're never going to get around this..

1.  PNR/PNP basketball. 

Trae is not Iverson who will give up his body for the score inside.  Trae is not Steph, who can shoot the lights out until the lane opens up for him.   Trae has a lot of Nash in him.  But Nash couldn't score like Trae.   The Trae Young goat float is predicated on the ability for him to make the PNR/PNP a constant threat. 

We found the problem with OO.  He is not great on the PNR.   He has a need to bring the ball  back down everytime he gets it.  It kills the PNR... when you watch Clint and when you watch JC.. they are experts at flying high and catching the lob...  We run it through double screens, we run it through back doors, and we run it through regular PNRs.  It was painful watching OO trying to do it because ultimately he would always come down with it.  Once.. he showed that he could finish without coming down.. I believe it shocked him.  It was in our win vs. Miami.   But that's once all season. 

2.  Outside threat.

I don't get why people are so in a hurry to trade JC.  His Near 40% from three makes him our Kevin Love.   He stretches defenses simply by being out there.   This gives the PNR room to work and it also opens the floor for Hunter whenever he gets his ass off the three point line. 

 

What we beat Philly and NY with in the playoffs last year was this type of play which creating spacing for Trae to work all of his magic. 

We beat us against Miami was the lack of this kind of spacing and gave Miami the ability to key in on Trae with Three defenders at all times. 

So we get Ayton and move OO to PF as some want to do.  OO has never hit a three point and has only shot 3 in his pro career.  So he's not going to stretch the floor.  He's not a good PNR partner yet... and that nuisance is a nuisance.   Not every player can be a finisher on the PNR.  It's reserved for guy who attack the basket...

 

 

Why is everyone so focused on shooting 3s??? Who said OO has to improve his 3pt shooting to space the floor???

OO can comeback next season with a solid mid range game then in the 2023 off season continue to expand his range .

 

we are never going to agree on this one …never! You are too focused on what OO has already shown and speak as if a 20 year old can’t develop to get better.

[JTB]

55 minutes ago, Spud2nique said:

JTB! Yessss sir!

Lol I forgot Suns weren’t wanting to take back extra salary. I keep forgetting that.

 

[JTB]

24 minutes ago, terrell said:

So why the fk we draft a 4/5 PF/C tweener at #6 overall who cant shoot and isnt great at the pick and roll? Makes no sense..

The only thing unproven about OO is his shooting but even in that area he’s a pretty good free throw shooter which shows some potential. He was 80 out of 110 on free throws good for 72%. Huge improvement from him rookie season.

OO is also good in pick n rolls so not sure what Diesel is talking about on that one.

OO rebounding is not very good but he isn’t afraid to get in the mix but individual numbers aren’t impressive. He could have a high team rebound rate like a Steven adams or brook lopez but I doubt it. I will give JC an advantage here but collins depends on his athleticism a lot for boards and don’t box out like he should.

 

Defensively I think JC is only slightly better only due to discipline but potentially I don’t care what anyone says OO will surpass JC defensively at some point. Maybe even next season.

[marco102]

5 minutes ago, JTB said:

The only thing unproven about OO is his shooting but even in that area he’s a pretty good free throw shooter which shows some potential. He was 80 out of 110 on free throws good for 72%. Huge improvement from him rookie season.

OO is also good in pick n rolls so not sure what Diesel is talking about on that one.

OO rebounding is not very good but he isn’t afraid to get in the mix but individual numbers aren’t impressive. He could have a high team rebound rate like a Steven adams or brook lopez but I doubt it. I will give JC an advantage here but collins depends on his athleticism a lot for boards and don’t box out like he should.

 

Defensively I think JC is only slightly better only due to discipline but potentially I don’t care what anyone says OO will surpass JC defensively at some point. Maybe even next season.

I can't see how one could look at OO who has only shot maybe 2 threes in his career and maybe 10 midrange jumpers and assume he can play power forward with his non rebounding self.

I get it y'all don't like JC, but to act like JC isn't a top 10 power forward is crazy to me. 

OO can defend all he wants, but if he ain't rebounding what is the point.   

I hate y'all got me on here talking down on OO because I love what he brings.

However, there is no reason to move JC for peanuts just because you want OO to start. Hawks have control of him for the next 6 years if they choose to.  

[JayBirdHawk]

50 minutes ago, JTB said:

Why is everyone so focused on shooting 3s??? Who said OO has to improve his 3pt shooting to space the floor???

OO can comeback next season with a solid mid range game then in the 2023 off season continue to expand his range .

 

we are never going to agree on this one …never! You are too focused on what OO has already shown and speak as if a 20 year old can’t develop to get better.

For me it's not necessarily shooting 3s, it's more about expanding his current range which at the moment is Zero.  We aren't even talking about him improving his efficiency as a midrange shooter since he doesn't have any reliable stats to reference. 

Loved that he has improved his freethrow shooting and that bodes well.

I love his attitude regarding coming back with a midrange shot and I would like to believe he can, but I wouldn't guarantee it.

[terrell]

36 minutes ago, marco102 said:

I can't see how one could look at OO who has only shot maybe 2 threes in his career and maybe 10 midrange jumpers and assume he can play power forward with his non rebounding self.

I get it y'all don't like JC, but to act like JC isn't a top 10 power forward is crazy to me. 

OO can defend all he wants, but if he ain't rebounding what is the point.   

I hate y'all got me on here talking down on OO because I love what he brings.

However, there is no reason to move JC for peanuts just because you want OO to start. Hawks have control of him for the next 6 years if they choose to.  

Imagine Hunter and OO crashing the boards at SF/PF............ 

Edited June 10, 2022 by terrell

[NBASupes]

1 hour ago, marco102 said:

I can't see how one could look at OO who has only shot maybe 2 threes in his career and maybe 10 midrange jumpers and assume he can play power forward with his non rebounding self.

I get it y'all don't like JC, but to act like JC isn't a top 10 power forward is crazy to me. 

OO can defend all he wants, but if he ain't rebounding what is the point.   

I hate y'all got me on here talking down on OO because I love what he brings.

However, there is no reason to move JC for peanuts just because you want OO to start. Hawks have control of him for the next 6 years if they choose to.  

You vastly underrating OO. 

I love JC and he is a top 10 PF. 

OO is an excellent offensive rebounder. We need him to bring that to the defensive boards but unlike some others, OO can switch and will guard on the perimeter. 

No one here wants to move JC for peanuts. 

[JTB]

1 hour ago, marco102 said:

I can't see how one could look at OO who has only shot maybe 2 threes in his career and maybe 10 midrange jumpers and assume he can play power forward with his non rebounding self.

I get it y'all don't like JC, but to act like JC isn't a top 10 power forward is crazy to me. 

OO can defend all he wants, but if he ain't rebounding what is the point.   

I hate y'all got me on here talking down on OO because I love what he brings.

However, there is no reason to move JC for peanuts just because you want OO to start. Hawks have control of him for the next 6 years if they choose to.  

Never said I don’t like JC and I do think he’s a top 10 PF but I’d trade him all day to get Ayton.

and my trade proposal was JC for Ayton after I revised it (if that works) how is that peanuts? 
 

ive also made it clear that OO has to improve his jumpshooting but that’s not a indication that he need to take 3s next season. He need to develop his mid range game which I’m sure is what he meant in his exit interview.

y’all are trying to get everything out of OO rather than allowing him to slowly develop and the sole reason I’d trade JC for Ayton is because unlike Collins who is a good player I don’t see the top 10 PF ever being a consistent all star. Collins has a lot that he leaves on the table whereas Aytons offense has the chance of being elite (especially with Trae). Clearly I believe Ayton can impact the game more then JC ….I thought we were on the same page but we aren’t.

 

I agree not trading JC for peanuts but to say not trade him at all we will be the same team next year with no true potential in my opinion. JC is our best trading chip with all the BYC bull crap and I’m not saying I understand the cap the way you do but I’m reading this board like everyone else and Capela to PHX just isn’t enticing enough when literally anyone can be in the running for these players.

8 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

You vastly underrating OO. 

I love JC and he is a top 10 PF. 

OO is an excellent offensive rebounder. We need him to bring that to the defensive boards but unlike some others, OO can switch and will guard on the perimeter. 

No one here wants to move JC for peanuts. 

Thanks! 

[LucastheThird]

1 minute ago, JTB said:

Never said I don’t like JC and I do think he’s a top 10 PF but I’d trade him all day to get Ayton.

and my trade proposal was JC for Ayton after I revised it (if that works) how is that peanuts? 
 

ive also made it clear that OO has to improve his jumpshooting but that’s not a indication that he need to take 3s next season. He need to develop his mid range game which I’m sure is what he meant in his exit interview.

y’all are trying to get everything out of OO rather than allowing him to slowly develop and the sole reason I’d trade JC for Ayton is because unlike Collins who is a good player I don’t see the top 10 PF ever being a consistent all star. Collins has a lot that he leaves on the table whereas Aytons offense has the chance of being elite (especially with Trae). Clearly I believe Ayton can impact the game more then JC ….I thought we were on the same page but we aren’t.

 

I agree not trading JC for peanuts but to say not trade him at all we will be the same team next year with no true potential in my opinion. JC is our best trading chip with all the BYC bull crap and I’m not saying I understand the cap the way you do but I’m reading this board like everyone else and Capela to PHX just isn’t enticing enough when literally anyone can be in the running for these players.

I'm not cap space savvy enough to discuss if JC for Ayton works that way.

 

My question is what is your next move? Does Ayton come here to play PF with Capela? Do you move Capela for something else?

[NBASupes]

1 minute ago, LucastheThird said:

I'm not cap space savvy enough to discuss if JC for Ayton works that way.

 

My question is what is your next move? Does Ayton come here to play PF with Capela? Do you move Capela for something else?

Capela would be moved in that case. There are 11 teams seriously interested in Clint the minute Atlanta is open to moving him which they haven't been so far. 

[LucastheThird]

Just now, NBASupes said:

Capela would be moved in that case. There are 11 teams seriously interested in Clint the minute Atlanta is open to moving him which they haven't been so far. 

Knowing that Ayton felt like PF was his natural position coming out of college (heard that before). Would a twin tower setup with Ayton and Capela work on the court or be more of the same as what we have now with JC and Capela?

 

https://arizonasports.com/story/2092014/suns-deandre-ayton-says-pf-is-his-born-and-raised-position/

 

 

[thecampster]

 

Jake Fischer on John Collins synopsis.

Atlanta would like to move him this offseason.  They like John but defense is his shortcoming and doesn't justify his contract fit with Atlanta because he isn't offensively dominant. This is in like with what I was saying that they feel John is a better fit next to stretch 5 where he has room to work.  Fischer mentioned Portland, Indiana and San Antonio as possible fits but concedes there are others. He admits the feeling around the league with Collins is team fit is key.

[NBASupes]

Just now, thecampster said:

 

Jake Fischer on John Collins synopsis.

Atlanta would like to move him this offseason.  They like John but defense is his shortcoming and doesn't justify his contract fit with Atlanta because he isn't offensively dominant. This is in like with what I was saying that they feel John is a better fit next to stretch 5 where he has room to work.  Fischer mentioned Portland, Indiana and San Antonio as possible fits but concedes there are others. He admits the feeling around the league with Collins is team fit is key.

Yep, what's funny is those are all three of the teams that contacted Atlanta about JC.