The cobbled together, stuff we held on to during the playoffs mega super rumor and team direction thread.

[terrell]

4 minutes ago, thecampster said:

 

Jake Fischer on John Collins synopsis.

Atlanta would like to move him this offseason.  They like John but defense is his shortcoming and doesn't justify his contract fit with Atlanta because he isn't offensively dominant. This is in like with what I was saying that they feel John is a better fit next to stretch 5 where he has room to work.  Fischer mentioned Portland, Indiana and San Antonio as possible fits but concedes there are others. He admits the feeling around the league with Collins is team fit is key.

Exactly what Ive been saying forever about his fit with a Trae led team.......smh...

[NBASupes]

I do have three big updates, one involving the Hawks

1. Washington is looking to make a big time trade. A number of young players are available. They want a pseudo PG. Russell, Fox, Brodgon, and Conley are who they are looking at but this could happen during the draft. Washington wants to act fast which means Bradley might be still pulling strings. 

2. Portland and Toronto have had advanced talks about #7 overall. It's looking real that OG could be a Blazer. 

3. He's hearing that CP3 and some of the coaches are pushing for them to replace Ayton with Clint Capela within PHX org. PHX executives have been code zero on this matter but he's hearing that Capela is getting love and interest from those members. Not a surprise to me, I knew CP3 loved playing with Clint. 

 

My personal takes: 

I don't think John will be traded during the draft. Maybe he will but I doubt it. If he's traded, POR, SA, IND are the teams that come to mind. They have tremendous interest in JC. 

I don't believe we will be trading up or down. If I had to guess, Jalen Williams, Ochai A, T. Eason, Sochan, or one of the three centers will be the pick. I don't believe Atlanta will draft anyone that they didn't workout or see live. They won't do what they did last year. 

[thecampster]

8 minutes ago, terrell said:

Exactly what Ive been saying forever about his fit with a Trae led team.......smh...

Actually the fit is with Capela.  Because Capela is no threat outside of 5 feet, his man can cheat whenever JC posts and can ignore Clint if he drifts from the basket to give JC room to work. A stretch 5 would pull the center away allowing JC's faceup/post game to be useful.

[NBASupes]

4 minutes ago, thecampster said:

Actually the fit is with Capela.  Because Capela is no threat outside of 5 feet, his man can cheat whenever JC posts and can ignore Clint if he drifts from the basket to give JC room to work. A stretch 5 would pull the center away allowing JC's faceup/post game to be useful.

Yep or a spacing big. When you lack so much range like Capela, you basically have to put a damn forward at the 4 offensively. The issue with that is, JC is a 4 through and through. He still wants to be around the paint. 

[terrell]

10 minutes ago, thecampster said:

Actually the fit is with Capela.  Because Capela is no threat outside of 5 feet, his man can cheat whenever JC posts and can ignore Clint if he drifts from the basket to give JC room to work. A stretch 5 would pull the center away allowing JC's faceup/post game to be useful.

Yeah I never liked that fit either.. 

[terrell]

16 minutes ago, thecampster said:

Actually the fit is with Capela.  Because Capela is no threat outside of 5 feet, his man can cheat whenever JC posts and can ignore Clint if he drifts from the basket to give JC room to work. A stretch 5 would pull the center away allowing JC's faceup/post game to be useful.

So how is he gonna have room to work in Portland or Sactown? Nurkic and Sabonis arent stetch 5's either.. And they both pretty much suck on defense....Indy would be the best fit.. But arent they trying to trade Turner?

Edited June 10, 2022 by terrell

[NBASupes]

2 minutes ago, terrell said:

So how is he gonna have room to work in Portland or Sactown? Nurkic and Sabonis arent stetch 5's either.. And they both pretty much suck on defense....

Nurk ain't gonna be in Portland long unless they miss on Ayton which they will. Even so, Mo Bamba is high on Portland Christmas list. Sabonis does a lot out of the top of the post and he can pass his ass off. I am glad you mentioned SAC, they called about JC too. 

Edited June 10, 2022 by NBASupes

[thecampster]

7 minutes ago, terrell said:

So how is he gonna have room to work in Portland or Sactown? Nurkic and Sabonis arent stetch 5's either.. And they both pretty much suck on defense....Indy would be the best fit.. But arent they trying to trade Turner?

You aren't wrong.  This is why a limited number of teams see JC better than what he is...most see him similar to what he's paid, a few don't value him and that's the number reason....the players around him.

This is why players like Lebron or other true superstars are so rare. He fits pretty much everywhere with only small variances based on what's around him.  Most players in the NBA have fit issues on the wrong team.

 

[marco102]

1 hour ago, JTB said:

Never said I don’t like JC and I do think he’s a top 10 PF but I’d trade him all day to get Ayton.

and my trade proposal was JC for Ayton after I revised it (if that works) how is that peanuts? 
 

ive also made it clear that OO has to improve his jumpshooting but that’s not a indication that he need to take 3s next season. He need to develop his mid range game which I’m sure is what he meant in his exit interview.

y’all are trying to get everything out of OO rather than allowing him to slowly develop and the sole reason I’d trade JC for Ayton is because unlike Collins who is a good player I don’t see the top 10 PF ever being a consistent all star. Collins has a lot that he leaves on the table whereas Aytons offense has the chance of being elite (especially with Trae). Clearly I believe Ayton can impact the game more then JC ….I thought we were on the same page but we aren’t.

 

I agree not trading JC for peanuts but to say not trade him at all we will be the same team next year with no true potential in my opinion. JC is our best trading chip with all the BYC bull crap and I’m not saying I understand the cap the way you do but I’m reading this board like everyone else and Capela to PHX just isn’t enticing enough when literally anyone can be in the running for these players.

Thanks! 

My point is why are y'all trying to get rid of JC when you can potentially have this

Ayton, JC, and OO and JJ.

Why make yourself weaker when you don't have to? I never said don't trade JC.  

I want to have the strongest team possible were I see JC and Ayton being interchangeable when they are on the court. 

Clint is exactly what PHX is wanting.  A top 10 center who isn't making the max.  Not sure where y'all are getting PHX has leverage to ask for JC in a trade.  They don't decide where Ayton is going.  If he says he wants to sign with Atlanta, PHX will do it in a heart beat because they are getting a top 10 center and pick(s).

Ayton has to want to go to the other teams.  The only other team that makes any sense is possibly Toronto with OG, but does Ayton want to go there with no good PG play.  I think he'll make them a beast if he were to go there. 

[DS5]

Other than the 7th pick, what is Toronto looking for in a trade for OG? I think he would be a perfect fit next to Trae. I’d rather use Capela to trade for OG than for Ayton, all else being the same. 

[NBASupes]

2 minutes ago, marco102 said:

My point is why are y'all trying to get rid of JC when you can potentially have this

Ayton, JC, and OO and JJ.

Why make yourself weaker when you don't have to? I never said don't trade JC.  

I want to have the strongest team possible were I see JC and Ayton being interchangeable when they are on the court. 

Clint is exactly what PHX is wanting.  A top 10 center who isn't making the max.  Not sure where y'all are getting PHX has leverage to ask for JC in a trade.  They don't decide where Ayton is going.  If he says he wants to sign with Atlanta, PHX will do it in a heart beat because they are getting a top 10 center and pick(s).

Ayton has to want to go to the other teams.  The only other team that makes any sense is possibly Toronto with OG, but does Ayton want to go there with no good PG play.  I think he'll make them a beast if he were to go there. 

Because our defense would be shit starting JC and Ayton. Both are good defenders but not very good, damn sure not excellent and no one is confusing them for prime Draymond or Gobert. We have a bad defense mainly due to our PG but also our SG isn't helping either. We gotta have better defense. If we gonna have JC, we need an excellent or elite defender next to him. If we gonna have Ayton, same. Neither are good enough to overcome those issues. 

[NBASupes]

3 minutes ago, DS5 said:

Other than the 7th pick, what is Toronto looking for in a trade for OG? I think he would be a perfect fit next to Trae. I’d rather use Capela to trade for OG than for Ayton, all else being the same. 

IDK. He just said they have advanced in talks. Toronto is looking at the wings in particular. Said to be big fans of Dyson Daniels. When you think about it, him, Barnes, Siakam, FVV, and GTJ is nice. 

[Wretch]

6 hours ago, Spud2nique said:

@Wretch COME GET YA BOY 

[DS5]

3 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

IDK. He just said they have advanced in talks. Toronto is looking at the wings in particular. Said to be big fans of Dyson Daniels. When you think about it, him, Barnes, Siakam, FVV, and GTJ is nice. 

Kind of weird to trade a proven two way wing for a rookie wing. Probably just wishful thinking but I’d assume a proven big in Capela should be more attractive from Toronto’s perspective. OG and Hunter in the wings is exactly what you need for Trae. 

[Diesel]

3 hours ago, terrell said:

So why the fk we draft a 4/5 PF/C tweener at #6 overall who cant shoot and isnt great at the pick and roll? Makes no sense..

We drafted a BU C... not a PF...  We draft him because he plays outstanding defense.    We drafted him hoping that his offense would come around and that one day he can replace our current C.  Nobody said that we were drafting a PF...

Here... it's easy for you to hear it from Schlenk..

https://www.ajc.com/sports/atlanta-hawks/travis-schlenk-on-the-selection-of-onyeka-okongwu/41f3d5df-cc9f-41d5-b8b6-bab4495b6125/

 

Notice, he calls him a CENTER... 

Notice he talks about his defense and his instincts...

Notice he says that his offense "we hope" will come around...

 

[Diesel]

3 hours ago, JTB said:

Why is everyone so focused on shooting 3s??? Who said OO has to improve his 3pt shooting to space the floor???

OO can comeback next season with a solid mid range game then in the 2023 off season continue to expand his range .

 

we are never going to agree on this one …never! You are too focused on what OO has already shown and speak as if a 20 year old can’t develop to get better.

That would be great.  But it still wouldn't make him ideal for PF.

Right now, JJ is a better fit at PF than OO.   Period. 

I think the problem we're having is fitting the round hole in the square peg.  OO is not the answer at PF.   He's going to be a great C.  But you have it in your mind that you want to bring in another C.. so in order to salvage something from OO, we move him to PF..  The problem is that PF and C have different skillset requirements.  Especially in today's NBA.  OO has none of the required skillset. 

Hey... you'd do better saying that we're going to play Ayton at PF.

 

[marco102]

12 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

Because our defense would be shit starting JC and Ayton. Both are good defenders but not very good, damn sure not excellent and no one is confusing them for prime Draymond or Gobert. We have a bad defense mainly due to our PG but also our SG isn't helping either. We gotta have better defense. If we gonna have JC, we need an excellent or elite defender next to him. If we gonna have Ayton, same. Neither are good enough to overcome those issues. 

Nope, we just need better wing defense and better scheming.  

I just think Ayton is a better defender than you're giving credit for.  Like yeah, in his current form with no improvement the Hawks may struggle, but I think he's going to get better. 

It's funny how you have seen both Ayton and JC improve their defense and are like they will be shit, but are for sure OO is going to be a good rebounder and shooter when he hasn't shown an once of that.  Except at the free throw line were he's average and offensive rebounding here and there. 

[NBASupes]

14 minutes ago, DS5 said:

Kind of weird to trade a proven two way wing for a rookie wing. Probably just wishful thinking but I’d assume a proven big in Capela should be more attractive from Toronto’s perspective. OG and Hunter in the wings is exactly what you need for Trae. 

Playing time as Barnes will get the bulk of mins at the 3 and at the 4 it's Siakam. Not enough mins in TOR. 

[NBASupes]

2 minutes ago, marco102 said:

Nope, we just need better wing defense and better scheming.  

I just think Ayton is a better defender than you're giving credit for.  Like yeah, in his current form with no improvement the Hawks may struggle, but I think he's going to get better. 

It's funny how you have seen both Ayton and JC improve their defense and are like they will be shit, but are for sure OO is going to be a good rebounder and shooter when he hasn't shown an once of that.  Except at the free throw line were he's average and offensive rebounding here and there. 

Bro, that's not easy to fix. Just aren't that many defensive 2s with capable offensive talent who also have size. To even get the talent for the wings, you gotta trade for it. It's never available in FA. You want Atlanta to solve this problem, JC is the asset that can do so. 

Bro, I watch a lot of PHX. He's just a good defender. He's not very good like Poeltl or TimeLord. He's not excellent like Capela or Bam and he's damn sure not elite like Gobert. He's just good. He has his strengths and he has his weaknesses. Clint guards better in space than Ayton bro and is like 15 pounds heavier. 

Edited June 10, 2022 by NBASupes

[Dean Walker]

1 hour ago, NBASupes said:

You vastly underrating OO. 

I love JC and he is a top 10 PF. 

OO is an excellent offensive rebounder. We need him to bring that to the defensive boards but unlike some others, OO can switch and will guard on the perimeter. 

No one here wants to move JC for peanuts. 

Idk about Jc being a top 10 Pf.

I can name 10-13 better than him that make 1/10 of what he makes.

He’d definitely on the cusp though.