The cobbled together, stuff we held on to during the playoffs mega super rumor and team direction thread.

[Hawkmoor]

54 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

Championship team? hard to say.  At this point, my thought are how do we improve the teams weaknesses to take the next step.  Ideally - we get that much needed 2nd 'Superstar' player but they are not always easy to come by and we all know that those types of players improve the teams chances drastically.

 

Barring the obvious 'STAR' I'm taking a step back from lofty expectations to a tier below:

This is a player I wanted last year when his value was a lower than it is today after the Allstar season he had this year, but I have no idea what direction his current team is actually going, and if he is even available now and what his current trade value is.  

 I think he can play next to Trae at SG (a little undersized but can still be effective due to his wingspan), he's good enough with the ball to allow Trae to be off ball as he can create for himself and others, and is also considered a good defender.  This past season he averaged 21.1 ppg/9.2 apg/8.3rpg/2.0 spg/.500 efg, his 3pt shooting needs some work, shot 32.7% this season.

I'm talking Spurs Guard: Dejounte Murray: 6'-4" with 6'-9.5" wingspan

Trade details: Murray and McDermott for Huerter, Gallo, Cooper, Hawks 2022 1st and I'll throw in the Charlotte 2023 1st if needed. Is that enough too much? or would they want Jalen Johnson added as well. (Like I said I don't know the Spurs direction)

I think for the Spurs if they decide to go a rebuild route would want to clear McDermott's last 2 years at $13 per. He shot 42.2% from 3 last season on 5.5 attempts. 

Hawks fix their defense perimeter defense while also having another capable ball handler and also a guy that can score the ball.

I had Murray in my three team trade with the Hawks and Nets to get Kyrie.  Murray to Nets and Kyrie to Hawks.

[Diesel]

1 hour ago, Peoriabird said:

Trae/Mitchell/Hunter/johnson/Capela starting line up huh...Its it the dream of Hawk fans to be the worst defensive team in the league because being 27th wasn't good enough?

Can Hunter give us a full season?

If so, then this team is not bad at all.  This lineup depends on Hunter's ability to be stronger and Johnson's ability to play defense.   I've seen Johnson do it, not as a starter playing full time.

My trade thought:

JC/Bogi/Shariffe/2024 1st (top 6 protected) for Mitchell/Oneal/Gay...

The hawks depth chart after resigning Delon and picking up some players in the Draft and Free Agency...

• Trae/Delon/Austin Rivers 
• Mitchell/ Marjon Beauchamp
• Hunter/Gay/C Brown
• JJ/Gallo/Oneal
• CC/OO/Drummond

This team, can win a championship in my opinion. 

[JayBirdHawk]

5 minutes ago, Hawkmoor said:

Kyrie to Hawks.

[macdaddy]

Here's a good article from Utah on Mitchell's defense.

https://www.slcdunk.com/the-downbeat-latest-jazz-news/2021/2/8/22270315/is-it-time-to-give-up-on-donovan-mitchells-defense-utah-jazz

To me it highlights that most of his defensive shortcomings are mental and that he actually has the tools and shown the ability to play good defense.   

Look at Wiggins or even Booker.  These guys stepped up the D in the right situation.   I agree that Trae has limited upside on the defensive end but Mitchell can be good in the right situation.  Maybe this isn't it but i know for sure he's a huge upgrade over what we've had at the 2.  That's what matters.  

[capstone21]

3 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

I can't think of a player I would want on this roster less then Irving.

 

[capstone21]

Players like Irving / Mitchell are not the solution.  This does not make this team better.  An undersized non defensive mini backcourt will get destroyed.  There is only one ball and all these guys along with Trae are also ball dominant.  It will not work with chemistry OR defense.

 

[macdaddy]

2 minutes ago, capstone21 said:

Players like Irving / Mitchell are not the solution.  This does not make this team better.  An undersized non defensive mini backcourt will get destroyed.  There is only one ball and all these guys along with Trae are also ball dominant.  It will not work with chemistry OR defense.

 

I disagree about Mitchell.   I don't think Mitchell and Irving are the same player at all. 

But a lot of folks have this opinion but what's your realistic solution?    So far i havent' seen anything suggested that is possible to address our need for a second scorer.   

[JayBirdHawk]

1 minute ago, macdaddy said:

I disagree about Mitchell.   I don't think Mitchell and Irving are the same player at all. 

But a lot of folks have this opinion but what's your realistic solution?    So far i havent' seen anything suggested that is possible to address our need for a second scorer.   

1 hour ago, JayBirdHawk said:

Championship team? hard to say.  At this point, my thought are how do we improve the teams weaknesses to take the next step.  Ideally - we get that much needed 2nd 'Superstar' player but they are not always easy to come by and we all know that those types of players improve the teams chances drastically.

 

Barring the obvious 'STAR' I'm taking a step back from lofty expectations to a tier below:

This is a player I wanted last year when his value was a lower than it is today after the Allstar season he had this year, but I have no idea what direction his current team is actually going, and if he is even available now and what his current trade value is.  

 I think he can play next to Trae at SG (a little undersized but can still be effective due to his wingspan), he's good enough with the ball to allow Trae to be off ball as he can create for himself and others, and is also considered a good defender.  This past season he averaged 21.1 ppg/9.2 apg/8.3rpg/2.0 spg/.500 efg, his 3pt shooting needs some work, shot 32.7% this season.

I'm talking Spurs Guard: Dejounte Murray: 6'-4" with 6'-9.5" wingspan

Trade details: Murray and McDermott for Huerter, Gallo, Cooper, Hawks 2022 1st and I'll throw in the Charlotte 2023 1st if needed. Is that enough too much? or would they want Jalen Johnson added as well. (Like I said I don't know the Spurs direction)

I think for the Spurs if they decide to go a rebuild route would want to clear McDermott's last 2 years at $13 per. He shot 42.2% from 3 last season on 5.5 attempts. 

Hawks fix their defense perimeter defense while also having another capable ball handler and also a guy that can score the ball.

 

[Diesel]

1 minute ago, capstone21 said:

Players like Irving / Mitchell are not the solution.  This does not make this team better.  An undersized non defensive mini backcourt will get destroyed.  There is only one ball and all these guys along with Trae are also ball dominant.  It will not work with chemistry OR defense.

 

Destroyed by who.. and how?

This is what was said about the GS Warriors in 2012:

Quote

Much like previous editions of Warriors teams, this year’s team places in the bottom third in opponent’s field goal percentage, opponent’s three-point percentage and opponent’s true shooting percentage. Of particular note, the Warriors are dead last in defensive rebounding and 27th in opponent’s free-throw rate.

The Warriors remain one of the worst defensive teams in the NBA, their combination of excessive fouling and lack of rebounding contributing to their significant defensive woes.

I think just like the Warriors, careful building will make this team a winner.   One thing is for certain, you can make a team better defensively with ease.   What you can't do is improve offense easily.   It has been over 40 years of watching the Hawks and we have had only a handful of players that can take over and dominate games.  You got to give Trae some help. 

 

 

[Diesel]

We're doing a lot of talking around each other so let me be direct...  What's wrong with this lineup?

• Trae/Delon/Austin Rivers 
• D. Mitchell/ Marjon Beauchamp
• Hunter/Gay/C Brown
• JJ/Gallo/Oneal
• CC/OO/Drummond

[JayBirdHawk]

6 minutes ago, Diesel said:

Destroyed by who.. and how?

This is what was said about the GS Warriors in 2012:

I think just like the Warriors, careful building will make this team a winner.   One thing is for certain, you can make a team better defensively with ease.   What you can't do is improve offense easily.   It has been over 40 years of watching the Hawks and we have had only a handful of players that can take over and dominate games.  You got to give Trae some help. 

 

 

Are you sure this is 2012?  I think this was from 2011 when the team went 23-43.  Here is an article from December 2012:

The remarkable thing about Wednesday's win and, really, the entire season to date for Golden State is that 97 points won the game. The Warriors had the No. 14 offense last year, yes, but they still went 23-43. They still had the seventh worst record in the NBA. The offense isn't a whole lot better this season (No. 12). Almost the entire defense in the stat sheet from 2011-12's 23-43 record and this season's 15-7 mark is on defense.

Yep, a Stephen Curry-David Lee team doing work on defense.

The transformation has been stunning. Golden State was No. 27 on defense last season, and sits at No. 14 after Wednesday's win, according to Basketball-Reference. This was, admittedly, part of the plan. The plan when the team traded Monta Ellis for Andrew Bogut last season. Bogut, who has played a grand total of 73 minutes for the Warriors. Bogut was supposed to be the centerpiece of a revived Golden State defense. Bogut isn't in there, but the defense got better anyway. It's mindblowing.

The new additions to the team are Jarrett Jack (a good defender), Carl Landry (a fair defender), Harrison Barnes (a rookie), Festus Ezeli (rookie) and Draymond Green (rookie). That's a defensive upgrade -- the Warriors had Nate Robinson in Jack's spot last season, so that in particular is a big defensive upgrade -- but nothing monumental. Other than Jack, the Warriors have largely upgraded internally.

The Warriors' stunning defensive turnaround - SBNation.com

 

[AtLaS]

24 minutes ago, capstone21 said:

Players like Irving / Mitchell are not the solution.  This does not make this team better.  An undersized non defensive mini backcourt will get destroyed.  There is only one ball and all these guys along with Trae are also ball dominant.  It will not work with chemistry OR defense.

 

It sucks that Boston had such a good season b/c Jaylen Brown could have been available.  But, when building a team there is a lot of luck involved in terms of who becomes available.  You have to make deals based on whom is available.  I just don't know that we can stand pat another year.  Part of me does think if everyone is healthy we could make another run, but we would be wasting a year if not.

[NBASupes]

1 hour ago, marco102 said:

Yeah fans of other teams will really be objective. 

WOAT is hyperbole. I just watched the Suns cook Luka in a way Trae has never been exposed.

WOAT means he has no chance of improving and even you say when he is not tired and engaged on defense he can be serviceable.

His peers, coaches, executives? Please find me these people who don't think Trae is the worst defender in the NBA? 

[AtLaS]

13 minutes ago, Diesel said:

We're doing a lot of talking around each other so let me be direct...  What's wrong with this lineup?

• Trae/Delon/Austin Rivers 
• D. Mitchell/ Marjon Beauchamp
• Hunter/Gay/C Brown
• JJ/Gallo/Oneal
• CC/OO/Drummond

Bottom 5 defensive team, we also don't know if JJ is any good.  Don't get me wrong, I would love to see that lineup play together, but it's a huge risk giving up a lot of young talent and picks for another undersized defensive liability.  If we made a deal for Mitchell I would support it 100%, but i have doubts.  

The more I think about it, makes me question it.  This is a tough offseason because there is HUGE pressure for the Hawks to make a move, but the players available really aren't the best fits.  

[Diesel]

22 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

Are you sure this is 2012?  I think this was from 2011 when the team went 23-43.  Here is an article from December 2012:

The remarkable thing about Wednesday's win and, really, the entire season to date for Golden State is that 97 points won the game. The Warriors had the No. 14 offense last year, yes, but they still went 23-43. They still had the seventh worst record in the NBA. The offense isn't a whole lot better this season (No. 12). Almost the entire defense in the stat sheet from 2011-12's 23-43 record and this season's 15-7 mark is on defense.

Yep, a Stephen Curry-David Lee team doing work on defense.

The transformation has been stunning. Golden State was No. 27 on defense last season, and sits at No. 14 after Wednesday's win, according to Basketball-Reference. This was, admittedly, part of the plan. The plan when the team traded Monta Ellis for Andrew Bogut last season. Bogut, who has played a grand total of 73 minutes for the Warriors. Bogut was supposed to be the centerpiece of a revived Golden State defense. Bogut isn't in there, but the defense got better anyway. It's mindblowing.

The new additions to the team are Jarrett Jack (a good defender), Carl Landry (a fair defender), Harrison Barnes (a rookie), Festus Ezeli (rookie) and Draymond Green (rookie). That's a defensive upgrade -- the Warriors had Nate Robinson in Jack's spot last season, so that in particular is a big defensive upgrade -- but nothing monumental. Other than Jack, the Warriors have largely upgraded internally.

The Warriors' stunning defensive turnaround - SBNation.com

 

It could have been 2011... because that's the season I was referencing and the turn around I was referencing..

The point, a few players and your team can change it's defensive attributes... but you would not be able to recreate what you get from a Steph and Klay...

 

[Spud2nique]

10 hours ago, JayBirdHawk said:

I was thinking we can trade Gallo for their Bogdanovic, which gives us the pair, lol.

Have always wanted to pair the Bogi brothers.  

[Spud2nique]

1 hour ago, NBASupes said:

haha, I am saying, Trae is overwhelming considered the worst NBA defender in the game right now. It's hard to find anyone who would say another player. AHF tried to saying D.J. Augustin is the worst defender but he don't even play enough to even matter that much. It's an easy out when it's clear, for the players who play the big mins, Trae is the worst defender. There are plenty of guys worst shooting than Ben Simmons but who's considered the worst shooter in the NBA by the masses and even his peers, Ben Simmons. 

You broke my heart. I’ll leave it there. You can go around being an expert but doing this… maaaan. {shaking head walking away}

[NBASupes]

4 minutes ago, Spud2nique said:

You broke my heart. I’ll leave it there. You can go around being an expert but doing this… maaaan. {shaking head walking away}

I don't get you guys. I talk Basketball all day with other quality guys and I can't find any  guy who doesn't think Trae is the worst defender in the NBA. Most generally say he's the worst they have ever seen or that they can recall. It's only on here and Hawks Reddit where you guys think he's this special defender, he just gotta give effort. 

Edited May 12, 2022 by NBASupes

[Diesel]

3 minutes ago, AtLaS said:

Bottom 5 defensive team, we also don't know if JJ is any good.  Don't get me wrong, I would love to see that lineup play together, but it's a huge risk giving up a lot of young talent and picks for another undersized defensive liability.  If we made a deal for Mitchell I would support it 100%, but i have doubts.  

The more I think about it, makes me question it.  This is a tough offseason because there is HUGE pressure for the Hawks to make a move, but the players available really aren't the best fits.  

First let me address your last statement.  You will never find the perfect player or two players.   Never.   We have lightning in a bottle right now.  The one player that matters the most and really the only player that matters is Trae.  The question is how best do you build around Trae.

Some people say defensive Big..

Clint is that.   He's not a huge 7 footer but Clint is a rim protector and a switch defender.   OO is the same.  Clint is a really good rebounder. 

But I think People miss this important point.

Our team was best when Bogi was not holding his knee and was playing at a high level.  Here's the thing.. Even unhurt, Bogi is not a good defender.  He and Trae already make up one of the worst defensive pairings.   That high Level that Bogi was on... Mitchell lives there.   That level is where Mitchell has his mail sent to. 

The unknowns....

I agree.. we don't know about JJ.   However, we can give him a try as starter if we do trade JC.   He's just as good as anybody else in the league.  We would still have Gallo and Oneal behind him.   I just see JJ as being athletic and a real PF by skillset. 

OO.  Even if OO comes back with a good set shot, I still think he's better at the C position.  It would be wasting his talents to take him away from the paint.  I like the comparison of Him to Bam.  As a PF, he's more liken an old Favors.   Just not as useful. 

The parachute....

There is a golden parachute.  IF it doesn't work...We can always trade Mitchell.   Mitchell will not lose value unless he's injured.  There will be teams that want an engine for him.  So even if it doesn't work, he can be traded. 

If JJ is not working at PF, we can always trade Gallo before the deadline.  His salary is right in the right place for us to entertain getting a good player for him. 

Finally, there's one Correct....

I forgot to put Kev on the team...

• Trae/Delon/Austin Rivers 
• D. Mitchell/ Kev/Marjon Beauchamp
• Hunter/Gay/C Brown
• JJ/Gallo/Oneal
• CC/OO/Drummond

Again... What problems are there with this team?

[Hawkmoor]

59 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

Exactly. No championships since 1957 in St. Louis.