The Mega Super Rumor Thread (Part 2)

[thecampster]

2 minutes ago, Mikey said:

FYI i wasnt blaming anyone or anything like that LOL. I was just saying someone said expect fireworks and I was disappointed when Chris tweeted that JC would have lived to see another day. I still think a deal for him will be done soon whether thats a week from now or 2. 

I think so too!

[sturt]

Just now, Mikey said:

Bruh nobody was coming at him. You guys taking this way more seriously. I didn't know which insider said it and I wasn't gonna search through the posts to find it so I said " one of the insiders on here said ..."

That's fine, my friend, but taken in context of the tone of previous posts you've made, it wasn't an unreasonable conclusion for camp (or me) to reach. You get that, right?

[Mikey]

Just now, sturt said:

That's fine, my friend, but taken in context of the tone of previous posts you've made, it wasn't an unreasonable conclusion for camp (or me) to reach. You get that, right?

Probably fair LOL

[bleachkit]

Unless we are getting Murray, who else would be worth including JC in a trade that's realistically available? I wouldn't be surprised if JC is ultimately not traded.

[sturt]

2 minutes ago, thecampster said:

I think so too!

Um. Why though? What would change on either side of the equation?

[TheNorthCydeRises]

2 hours ago, theheroatl said:

We can close down this thread. This admin isn't going to make a big splash via trade or free agency. It's gonna be "we love our guys" and "we feel good about where we are" and "we are building through the draft".

Placing my bet right now that Ayton, Gobert, Lavine, KD, Kyrie, or any other top 50 player isn't getting traded or signing here this season or next.

Our biggest move will be waiving Gallo and staying under the tax.

If we're going to stand pat, we may as well keep Gallo. He's one of the best shooters on the team

[marco102]

Is Griffin gone? Was he selected for SA?

@thecampster, @NBASupes, @Sothron?

 

[sturt]

6 minutes ago, marco102 said:

Is Griffin gone? Was he selected for SA?

@thecampster, @NBASupes, @Sothron?

 

I'm none of the above, but that was my initial question.

But then my initial answer came back... look at SAS' roster... as-if they need another 6-5-ish shooter? They mostly have two sizes on their team... medium and large... no small, no extra large.

More likely, the decision made itself because they just knew anyone else they chose was going to be less widely regarded (and thus, less likely to be considered an asset by any given other trade partner) than the clear-cut BPA who was falling down the board.

[Wretch]

44 minutes ago, thecampster said:

That was me and unfortunately I can only report what I'm told. What I was told was we should be "hearing" something tonight about a previously unreported deal the team was trying to keep secret.  That is exactly what happened. We heard there was a previously unreported deal for Murray just a few hours later, confirmed by numerous members of the media. I don't know what you want or think is fair.

 

A quick recap.

Beginning in April/early May we broke the story about Ayton or Gobert to Atlanta and included some framework around it.  About a month later, the media picked up the same rumors.

End of May, the link of LaVine to Atlanta.  The media started reporting on it 10 days later (ish).

Withheld because we couldn't verify details, June 9th the story about Atlanta having a secret deal with a team for an all-star. Shared with private members of the board for a heads up a week+ later.  Discussed openly starting on the 22nd.  A few hours later, the story broke in the media about the Hawks and Spurs in talks for Murray.

 

The problem, I'm not the GM. I can't control what they do but we do have sources that know about what's being talked about, who is being targeted. No one knows the future but there are people who have the dirt.  I'm very cautious with what I share because of comments just like yours. As I've said before, I've heard lots of things I didn't share because I knew they couldn't work financially or didn't make sense value wise. A few times, I've been wrong but the conservative approach has saved me from comments like this.  

 

We aren't predicting what is going to happen. This isn't crystal ball stuff. What we are doing is giving you pulse statements. Especially when it comes to the Hawks, those turn out to be right, reported in the media, fairly often. If I or anyone else caused you emotional harm, I apologize. I know you pay good money for my services and I of course only want satisfied customers.

@Sothron @NBASupes

I think I speak for the overwhelming majority that understands the nature of the rumor mill.  I'm certain that a good number of us have seen (or heard of) enough deals falling through over the years as well as the reasoning (sometimes very detailed) to know how this goes. We're all envious and appreciative of the connections you guys have and thankful that you share.  So you guys don't owe us any explanations.

[JeffS17]

1 hour ago, sturt said:

 

 

Cue the Cinderella as background music as you read the following if you choose to read...........

 

Honestly, I can't see John not emotionally exhausted... supposedly, after he was signed to his new contract, this stuff was going to calm down, but it just continues.

And I can't see John and his agent not privately insulted by the idea that he's not enough of an asset on his own to be worth an asset that, for now, is only a one-year wonder and who this time last year was generally thought to be overpaid.

Me, I think we're paying John exactly what he should be paid. And I think John is as close to what you should want in pretty much every respect, on the floor and off, in the player playing his position.

I've said it before, for John's benefit, I'd like to see Hawks trade him already... ship him where he can, at least for a couple of years, feel appreciated and develop into a regular candidate for ASG status.

Selfishly, I rue the day.

 

I agree with you JC does the right things and falls in line into his role, etc. but I don't think the chemistry is really there.  I don't like speculating (read: i love speculating) and I think I've mentioned it before, but John and Trae really don't seem to gel well off the court.  I went to ~30 games last year and one of my favorite things to do during timeouts, inbetween quarters, half time, end of game, etc. is to watch how the players interact with each other on our team.  IMO Trae and John do not have a strong relationship -- and do not read that to mean the opposite is true because I also don't think they hate each other -- but I do think John really wants to be the vocal leader of the team and because Trae doesn't really respect him in that role, it doesn't work out well and causes mini schisms in team chemistry.  Schlenk is all about the psychology of winning basketball, so I'm guessing this is one of many the reasons JC is constantly mentioned and will not be a long term piece on the team.

[JTB]

I’m still holding out hope for Ayton ultimately.

if we make a splash for Murray or any other SG that’s an upgrade it’s probably going to cost us both JC and OO. Either way we are going to have a hole somewhere in both scenarios.

 

Trade for a SG upgrade there’s going to be a hole at PF likely.

Don’t trade for a SG upgrade then SG is still problem position.

…….either way Ayton can upgrade the center position and be a game changer next season.

5 minutes ago, Wretch said:

@Sothron @NBASupes

I think I speak for the overwhelming majority that understands the nature of the rumor mill.  I'm certain that a good number of us have seen (or heard of) enough deals falling through over the years as well as the reasoning (sometimes very detailed) to know how this goes. We're all envious and appreciative of the connections you guys have and thankful that you share.  So you guys don't owe us any explanations.

Well said! and agreed!

[thecampster]

14 minutes ago, sturt said:

Um. Why though? What would change on either side of the equation?

See Below:

The below link for the NBA stays active year to year.  Consider these dates:

https://www.nba.com/key-dates

2022-23 Key Dates

• April 10: Regular Season ends
• April 12-15: NBA Play-In Tournament
• April 11: Rosters set for NBA Playoffs 2022 (3 p.m. ET)
• April 12-15: Play-In Tournament
• April 16: NBA Playoffs 2022 begin
• April 24: NBA Early Entry Eligibility Deadline (11:59 p.m. ET)
• May 2-3: Conference Semifinals begin (possible move up to April 30/May 1)
• May 16-22: NBA Draft Combine (Chicago)
• May 17: NBA Draft Lottery 2022 presented by State Farm
• May 17-18: Conference Finals begin (possible move up to May 15-16)
• June 2: NBA Finals 2022 Game 1
• June 5: NBA Finals 2022 Game 2
• June 8: NBA Finals 2022 Game 3
• June 10: NBA Finals 2022 Game 4
• June 13: NBA Finals 2022 Game 5 (If necessary)
• June 13: NBA Draft Early Entry Entrant Withdrawal Deadline (5 p.m. ET)
• June 16: NBA Finals 2022 Game 6 (If necessary)

UPCOMING IN 2022-23

 

• June 23, 2022: NBA Draft 2022 presented by State Farm
• July 2-3: California Classic (San Francisco – Lakers, Heat, Kings, Warriors)
• July 5-7: Salt Lake City Summer League (Grizzlies, Thunder, 76ers, Jazz)
• July 7-17: NBA Summer League (Las Vegas)
• Sept. 30 & Oct. 2: Warriors, Wizards to play in NBA Japan Games 2022 Presented by Rakuten
• Oct. 6 & Oct. 8: Milwaukee Bucks, Atlanta Hawks to play in Abu Dhabi Games 2022

 

Now you can also look at this site but we're waiting on it to be updated.  https://cbabreakdown.com/key-dates

These will give the dates related to salary cap/Moratorium/etc

Removing the dates I don't know.

• July 1  — Beginning of upcoming salary cap year’s moratorium period

• July 2— Start of salary cap year

•  July 8 — Teams may sign free agents to contracts

• July 7-17 — Summer league

•  — Waived player’s protected compensation for the upcoming season can no longer be stretched for salary cap purposes

•  — First date players may report to their teams if the team is participating in preseason games outside of North America (games in China, India and China)

•  — Training camp opens for teams participating in preseason outside of North America

•  — First date all other veteran players may report to their teams

 

You can consider these dates as gateways.  For example, Jun 29th is the last day for making a decision on Gallo.  Our cap situation changes based on that decision.  Last night's draft, the moves made, changes the cap situation for teams and can change their needs going forward.

So with the JC thing, I believe (I don't know) they would like to resolve JC's team status before July 2 which means July 1.  

[sturt]

21 minutes ago, JeffS17 said:

I agree with you JC does the right things and falls in line into his role, etc. but I don't think the chemistry is really there.  I don't like speculating (read: i love speculating) and I think I've mentioned it before, but John and Trae really don't seem to gel well off the court.  I went to ~30 games last year and one of my favorite things to do during timeouts, inbetween quarters, half time, end of game, etc. is to watch how the players interact with each other on our team.  IMO Trae and John do not have a strong relationship -- and do not read that to mean the opposite is true because I also don't think they hate each other -- but I do think John really wants to be the vocal leader of the team and because Trae doesn't really respect him in that role, it doesn't work out well and causes mini schisms in team chemistry.  Schlenk is all about the psychology of winning basketball, so I'm guessing this is one of many the reasons JC is constantly mentioned and will not be a long term piece on the team.

That could be a valid take, of course, and all the more since you've made a habit of watching those in-between moments.

I'd only propose that there's always going to be some personality dynamics on any 15-man team that, sometimes, can be off. I really don't think that that's even avoidable.

I think the best you can hope for, as a GM or coach, is that guys handle their differences of personality and those relationship dynamics in a mature way... and though Kirschner in particular seems to have been inclined to highlight when the two haven't been buddy-buddy... I think what might be missing in his observation is the band of brothers effect... once you go to war with each other for awhile, what seems to outsiders to be bad blood is, in reality, just a comfort in being transparent with each other and knowing that ultimately you have each others' back.

And I'd add that the off-court chemistry is important, but less important than the on-court.... and the stats back-up what the eyes have said, that these two have a kinship on the court that is at another level from most PGs with their big men.

[thecampster]

To @Mikey's point.  I do feel deflated today. Griffin is a good get but there were no popcorn moments last night.

 

 

Edited June 24, 2022 by thecampster

[sturt]

4 minutes ago, thecampster said:

See Below:

The below link for the NBA stays active year to year.  Consider these dates:

https://www.nba.com/key-dates

2022-23 Key Dates

• April 10: Regular Season ends
• April 12-15: NBA Play-In Tournament
• April 11: Rosters set for NBA Playoffs 2022 (3 p.m. ET)
• April 12-15: Play-In Tournament
• April 16: NBA Playoffs 2022 begin
• April 24: NBA Early Entry Eligibility Deadline (11:59 p.m. ET)
• May 2-3: Conference Semifinals begin (possible move up to April 30/May 1)
• May 16-22: NBA Draft Combine (Chicago)
• May 17: NBA Draft Lottery 2022 presented by State Farm
• May 17-18: Conference Finals begin (possible move up to May 15-16)
• June 2: NBA Finals 2022 Game 1
• June 5: NBA Finals 2022 Game 2
• June 8: NBA Finals 2022 Game 3
• June 10: NBA Finals 2022 Game 4
• June 13: NBA Finals 2022 Game 5 (If necessary)
• June 13: NBA Draft Early Entry Entrant Withdrawal Deadline (5 p.m. ET)
• June 16: NBA Finals 2022 Game 6 (If necessary)

UPCOMING IN 2022-23

 

• June 23, 2022: NBA Draft 2022 presented by State Farm
• July 2-3: California Classic (San Francisco – Lakers, Heat, Kings, Warriors)
• July 5-7: Salt Lake City Summer League (Grizzlies, Thunder, 76ers, Jazz)
• July 7-17: NBA Summer League (Las Vegas)
• Sept. 30 & Oct. 2: Warriors, Wizards to play in NBA Japan Games 2022 Presented by Rakuten
• Oct. 6 & Oct. 8: Milwaukee Bucks, Atlanta Hawks to play in Abu Dhabi Games 2022

 

Now you can also look at this site but we're waiting on it to be updated.  https://cbabreakdown.com/key-dates

These will give the dates related to salary cap/Moratorium/etc

Removing the dates I don't know.

• July 1  — Beginning of upcoming salary cap year’s moratorium period

• July 2— Start of salary cap year

•  July 8 — Teams may sign free agents to contracts

• July 7-17 — Summer league

•  — Waived player’s protected compensation for the upcoming season can no longer be stretched for salary cap purposes

•  — First date players may report to their teams if the team is participating in preseason games outside of North America (games in China, India and China)

•  — Training camp opens for teams participating in preseason outside of North America

•  — First date all other veteran players may report to their teams

 

You can consider these dates as gateways.  For example, Jun 29th is the last day for making a decision on Gallo.  Our cap situation changes based on that decision.  Last night's draft, the moves made, changes the cap situation for teams and can change their needs going forward.

So with the JC thing, I believe (I don't know) they would like to resolve JC's team status before July 2 which means July 1.  

Right. I get that. But my counter would be that anything that didn't get done before the draft is less likely to get done after the draft simply because... what's changed... is that that #16 pick drove off the lot, and it's now depreciated like any car you drive off the lot.

So, of course, there could be some trade made by some other team involving a player SAS was counting on being able to acquire, or same with us... thus affecting one side or the other's tipping point and openness to including or excluding some asset.

But that's impossible to predict, and so there's no reason to believe that would happen.

Same exact thing can be said for free agency, of course... plausible, yes, but for now, there's no reason to think it's more likely than unlikely.

(Am I missing something?)

 

[Sothron]

30 minutes ago, marco102 said:

Is Griffin gone? Was he selected for SA?

@thecampster, @NBASupes, @Sothron?

 

My source when asked said we took BPA just like the year before with Jalen. They saw a player they had rated in the lottery fall to 16 and took him. He did say it was kinda funny that SAS worked him out so much but didn't take him. I asked the same question about was he taken to be traded later and was told "nothing is off the table except trading Trae."

I asked about the secret trade and the Collins situation. I was told that Landry Fields was the one responsible for the misinformation being intentionally leaked to media. I asked why was it so important to do that. The feeling is that Landry felt TS was too open about trade targets and in public comments. Felt the team needed to throw teams off the scent and hide our true intentions to give us an advantage in trade talks or free agent talks.

Source said no one in the FO truly believed it was necessary to trade Collins by draft night. That was a leaked rumor to the media. I asked about Murray. Source got a little secretive about that and the secret trade. Said the feeling was SAS leaked the Murray talks at the last second to try and get more interest/force the Hawks to give up more assets. 

FWIW based off his comments I do think the Murray situation was our secret trade. Source said the talks are not dead on Murray. Apparently we're engaging the Nets still on KD talks and until the Brooklyn situation is sorted out it is putting a pause on other talks. They did confirm the report that the Hawks had talks with several teams about Collins as genuine. 

I am not stating the Murray trade was the secret trade as a fact simply that is my informed opinion. I'm curious if @thecampster and @NBASupes feel the same way.

 

[NBASupes]

I did get some information. That KD and the Nets would prefer to work it out and hope Kyrie can come to an agreement. 

Atlanta is likely out on Ayton. Trae really vouched for Capela and make it clear he wants to continue playing with him for the long haul. This is Trae play. 

While Atlanta will always persue options, JC market isn't going to get Atlanta interested in any trades. 

Atlanta wants to bring in more vets as depth pieces. Delon, Bogi, and Okongwu are perfect but they are looking for a vet to replace Gallo and battle with JJ for PT and a vet who has value to fight for PT with Griffin at the 3. 

Otto Porter Jr, Taurean Prince, Thad Young, Nic Batum, P.J. Tucker, and Montrezl Harrell have came up according to him.

They are always going to shop for trades but the value gotta make sense. 

[macdaddy]

3 minutes ago, Sothron said:

aid the feeling was SAS leaked the Murray talks at the last second to try and get more interest/force the Hawks to give up more assets. 

This seemed very obvious when OO was mentioned.

[thecampster]

8 minutes ago, sturt said:

Right. I get that. But my counter would be that anything that didn't get done before the draft is less likely to get done after the draft simply because... what's changed... is that that #16 pick drove off the lot, and it's now depreciated like any car you drive off the lot.

So, of course, there could be some trade made by some other team involving a player SAS was counting on being able to acquire, or same with us... thus affecting one side or the other's tipping point and openness to including or excluding some asset.

But that's impossible to predict, and so there's no reason to believe that would happen.

Same exact thing can be said for free agency, of course... plausible, yes, but for now, there's no reason to think it's more likely than unlikely.

(Am I missing something?)

 

Most teams do a reassessment the day after the draft and see who gets waived in the coming days.

[sturt]

2 minutes ago, Sothron said:

I was told that Landry Fields was the one responsible for the misinformation being intentionally leaked to media. I asked why was it so important to do that. The feeling is that Landry felt TS was too open about trade targets and in public comments. Felt the team needed to throw teams off the scent and hide our true intentions to give us an advantage in trade talks or free agent talks.

That's an odd dynamic.... the guy just elevated to his boss' former position, feeling his boss overstepped, and taking action to counteract those missteps.... hmmmm.