The Mega Super Rumor Thread (Part 2)

[NBASupes]

4 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

Murray just too small to be next to Trae. Name the last backcourt to win a title where the backcourt was under 185 pounds. And we got to max him too. 

I know he makes us better. I know that. That's a fact. But I remember those small backcourt get chewed alive in the playoffs with the rules being more loose. 

I don't like it. Honestly, I hope it's dead and not revived. That's not even considering the trade package which we know is going to be extreme. They want a Jrue Holiday package. That's a lot. 

I am just thinking about the playoffs because that's ultimately what matters. 

Lucky for them, the frontcourt of Okongwu, Hunter, and Capela is big. I never seen a small bony backcourt work in the NBA. The closest is Monta and Steph

[MaceCase]

13 minutes ago, georgia said:

40 minutes ago, Marvin24Williams said:

Having a guy like Lou a year ago was a difference for us.     We didn’t turn it on until he came.   If Trae isn’t in, no one can score

I agree with this.  An over the hill Louis was able to come in and make a difference in a number of regular season and playoff games for the Hawks because of his play style.  Now, how expensive should acquiring a player like that be for the Hawks is a different question for me. 

[Peoriabird]

Just now, ShooterSays said:

Isiah was 6’1 and 180

Dumars was 6’3 and 190ish

 

30 years ago.

[ShooterSays]

Just now, Peoriabird said:

30 years ago.

Yup and the game was more physical then.

[marco102]

7 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

Murray just too small to be next to Trae. Name the last backcourt to win a title where the backcourt was under 185 pounds. And we got to max him too. 

I know he makes us better. I know that. That's a fact. But I remember those small backcourt get chewed alive in the playoffs with the rules being more loose. 

I don't like it. Honestly, I hope it's dead and not revived. That's not even considering the trade package which we know is going to be extreme. They want a Jrue Holiday package. That's a lot. 

I am just thinking about the playoffs because that's ultimately what matters. 

Supes there is no perfect fix. You have a year and half to see how it works.

Teams that when championships do it their way. You put the best team you can out there and see what happens.

 

 

Edited June 27, 2022 by marco102

[NBASupes]

2 minutes ago, bleachkit said:

Stein is legit. So that's good news. Got irons in the fire.

Stein is legit, if he says it, it's active. Not dead just to give a story to chat about

[marco102]

1 minute ago, NBASupes said:

Stein is legit, if he says it, it's active. Not dead just to give a story to chat about

Are you saying it is dead?

[NBASupes]

3 minutes ago, ShooterSays said:

Yup and the game was more physical then.

Joe was close to 200 pounds. These two are even smaller weight wise. 

I seem to remember this Miami series being extremely physical as well as the Milwaukee, Philadelphia, and New York series. 

[ShooterSays]

If Trae can make the ECF with Bogi and Huerter on the wing next to him playing defense, we can get it done with Murray.

[NBASupes]

2 minutes ago, marco102 said:

Are you saying it is dead?

If Stein is saying it, it's probably active

[thecampster]

18 minutes ago, MaceCase said:

Well that’s the question, what’s reasonable?  What’s reasonable in a vacuum?  What’s reasonable in the market?

I just wonder when I see reasoning like this

“Go build up a young contender with players that  are  on the same timeline as Trae”  

When the key trade pieces are a young player that played on a young contender and draft assets that all fit the same timeline as Trae.  Sounds like shuffling to shuffle and apologies, quoting you seems to have screw up the formatting. 

A few "ifs".

If Atlanta gets Murray, the downgrade at PF won't be dramatic and the trade creates $10 million in cap space to improve other roster slots. But Murray gives them 2 primary ball handlers/insurance if Trae goes out for an extended period of time.

If the Hawks continue to spend up to and around the LT, you can expect them to continue to be outside the lottery.

 

The future picks the next 3 years + would be outside the top 20.

3 first round picks in the 5-15 range is very different than 3 picks 21-30.

If SAS was asking for 3 lottery 1st rounders, I'd be balking too. But 3 21-30 picks, you're hoping 1 turns out to be a rotational player.  In that case you're trading JC + 1 rotational player (3x21+ picks = 1 rotational player) for Murray.  That's a very easy return, especially when that extra $10 million in salary can buy you a replacement rotation player...probably a better one.  The Charlotte pick is already protected top 18 this year.  I'd send 23, 25 and Charlotte's pick but only if I also have a plan at center and a plan to spend our other money. You don't trade for Murray in that situation in a vacuum. You have a plan going along with it.

Edited June 27, 2022 by thecampster

[NBASupes]

5 minutes ago, marco102 said:

Supes there is no perfect fix. You have a year and half to see how it works.

Teams that when championships do it their way. You put the best team you can out there and see what happens.

 

 

This makes sense. Luckily, you got a one year trial to see if this shit can really work.

[MaceCase]

3 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

Lucky for them, the frontcourt of Okongwu, Hunter, and Capela is big. I never seen a small bony backcourt work in the NBA. The closest is Monta and Steph

But are they tough? Zeke and Dumars had a whole prison yard protecting them. 
 

Cleveland is the closest modern example but they have a JUMBO frontcourt. 

[thecampster]

Just now, MaceCase said:

But are they tough? Zeke and Dumars had a whole prison yard protecting them. 
 

Cleveland is the closest modern example but they have a JUMBO frontcourt. 

Cleveland was a few injuries away from being a serious contender. That team was no joke.

[NBASupes]

Just now, thecampster said:

A few "ifs".

If Atlanta gets Murray, the downgrade at PF won't be dramatic and the trade creates $10 million in cap space to improve other roster slots. But Murry gives them 2 primary ball handlers/insurance if Trae goes out for an extended period of time.

If the Hawks continue to spend up to and around the LT, you can expect them to continue to be outside the lottery.

 

The future picks the next 3 years + would be outside the top 20.

3 first round picks in the 5-15 range is very different than 3 picks 21-30.

If SAS was asking for 3 lottery 1st rounders, I'd be balking too. But 3 21-30 picks, you're hoping 1 turns out to be a rotational player.  In that case you're trading JC + 1 rotational player (3x21+ picks = 1 rotational player) for Murray.  That's a very easy return, especially when that extra $10 million in salary can buy you a replacement rotation player...probably a better one.  The Charlotte pick is already protected top 18 this year.  I'd send 23, 25 and Charlotte's pick but only if I also have a plan at center and a plan to spend our other money. You don't trade for Murray in that situation in a vacuum. You have a plan going along with it.

Okongwu is not a downgrade at the 4 to Collins. Defense >>>> offense at the 4. 

 

Three 1st is massive. Especially for a team that would be Bulls level good after this deal assuming its JC and picks only. 

That's a lot. 

[ShooterSays]

Just now, NBASupes said:

Joe was close to 200 pounds. These two are even smaller weight wise. 

I seem to remember this Miami series being extremely physical as well as the Milwaukee, Philadelphia, and New York series. 

And we won 2 of those series and probably win the 3rd if Trae doesn’t get hurt with Bogi and Huerter being your primary wing defenders. 

Do you think Murray is better at defending PG’s and SG’s than either of those 2?

If yes, I think you have your answer as to why this trade makes sense. And if it doesn’t, then God help us because if Trae can’t make it work with Murray we’re probably SOL anyways.

[thecampster]

Just now, NBASupes said:

Okongwu is not a downgrade at the 4 to Collins. Defense >>>> offense at the 4. 

 

Three 1st is massive. Especially for a team that would be Bulls level good after this deal assuming its JC and picks only. 

That's a lot. 

Our firsts would not be very high...they would most likely be 21-30 which is what we'd be trading.  The draft is a crap shoot at that range.

[theheroatl]

Just got back from not seeing rumors all day and I’m so relieved to see Atlanta still engaging SA on Murray. No matter what you negative people say he fills a big need on this team.

 

Perimeter defender with wingspan + On-ball pressure besides Trae on offense.

Edited June 27, 2022 by theheroatl

[NBASupes]

1 minute ago, MaceCase said:

But are they tough? Zeke and Dumars had a whole prison yard protecting them. 
 

Cleveland is the closest modern example but they have a JUMBO frontcourt. 

It's big

Hunter is 6'7 230 7'2 ws

Okongwu is 6'9 245 7'1 ws

Capela is 6'10 260 7'4 ws

 

We aren't as big as Cleveland. Cleveland is massive with Lauri, Mobley, and Allen.

[thecampster]

1 minute ago, NBASupes said:

Okongwu is not a downgrade at the 4 to Collins. Defense >>>> offense at the 4. 

 

Three 1st is massive. Especially for a team that would be Bulls level good after this deal assuming its JC and picks only. 

That's a lot. 

If you can't see the difference between 3 lottery 1sts (value) and 3 low 1st round 1sts...I don't know what to say.  Those salaries at that level of the draft are equal to vet minimum salaries. If you're trying to contend, vet minimums are the better spend anyway.