The Mega Super Rumor Thread (Part 2)

[sturt]

Just now, marco102 said:

Ok, prove to me he's not a good defender or playmaker. 

If you can't, those aspects are proven and no debate should commence henceforth.

He's always been a good defender.

It's the rest of his game that's held him back from being a "proven commodity" in the general sense of the term.

And it's just not unreasonable from where I sit to refuse to take one season and pronounce the guy "proven."

[marco102]

2 minutes ago, Diesel said:

The franchise is not destroyed??  Are you kidding?

Ok... Let's say we do that damn deal.  JC + 2024 and 2026 pick (unprotected)... and let say next year we get an injury bug...  Is the Franchise destroyed?  NO.

First.. in 2024, we still have Charlotte's 1st rounder for picks.

2nd... we have all of our guys signed for 2025... and on.

That's not franchise destroying...  

But lets say we Stand pat.

We get the 2024 pick..  It's probably somebody that will need to be developed over a few years.   It will take them at least 4 years to get to the level of Murray.   So in those 4 years, how often do you think Trae will ask for a trade?

You got to change your mindset Marco..

We are not a team that develops talent anymore.   We have a superstar and we're trying to get into the championship picture.   Championship teams don't waste time developing while their superstars are young.  They acquire talent. 

 

 

Not true, it could convey next season.

[marco102]

3 minutes ago, sturt said:

He's always been a good defender.

It's the rest of his game that's held him back from being a "proven commodity" in the general sense of the term.

And it's just not unreasonable from where I sit to refuse to take one season and pronounce the guy "proven."

Playmaking has been good for several years.  You're talking about scoring efficiently only.  That's like saying Trae Young is unproven because he's not a good defender. 

There are certain aspects of players' games that are proven.  Murray - Good defender and playmaker.  His offense is coming around and you can say is unproven. 

Diesel is saying as proven you know what you're getting with Murray.  He's proven he's a good defender and playmaker. Whereas, draft picks are unknown.

You are trying to indicate he's proven he's a consistent all star which he hasn't, but that's not what @Diesel was referring to.

Edited June 25, 2022 by marco102

[Diesel]

Context means everything Marco...

This conversation on his podcast wasn't a response to what's going on with Kyrie.  This was a conversation right after the warriors won the chip.  He was basically acknowledging that he didn't have problems with the Warriors.

 

[Diesel]

3 minutes ago, marco102 said:

Not true, it could convey next season.

If we have Trae, Murray, Hunter, Cap , Kev, Bogi and OO under contract.. tell me how are we destroyed?

 

[sturt]

6 minutes ago, marco102 said:

Playmaking has been good for several years.  You're talking about scoring efficiently only. 

Playmaking was average for several years. He was meh. So, no, not just talking about scoring.

We have different definitions of "proven." Think we might just have to be content with that.

 

 

 

[bleachkit]

Yea we aren't getting KD. KD has to want to come here. Technically Brooklyn can trade him anywhere. But we know damn well when it comes to an aging superstar, you need them to be on board for this to work. 

Plus, KD had some injuries last year, he's entering his mid 30s. And we have to trade basically all our young prospects, multiple draft picks and fill the roster out with vet min guys. There would be enormous pressure to win too.

[marco102]

13 minutes ago, sturt said:

Playmaking was average for several years. He was meh. So, no, not just talking about scoring.

We have different definitions of "proven." Think we might just have to be content with hat.

 

 

 

If you think a career playmaking percentage of 28 is average, I don't know what to tell you.  

Last year was superb.  The year before was good.  Two years of have a 25+ assist percentage is proven.  First couple of year he was learning the game.  You act like he hasn't improved his percentage in almost every year.  Do you think you are more likely to get the 20.2% or the 28.2%  going forward with his career based on trends?

Again, you misinterpreted what Diesel said in your haste to be a contrarian and don't want to admit that.

If you want to play the game, he is a proven defender.  So therefore, he is proven. 

4 minutes ago, bleachkit said:

Yea we aren't getting KD. KD has to want to come here. Technically Brooklyn can trade him anywhere. But we know damn well when it comes to an aging superstar, you need them to be on board for this to work. 

Plus, KD had some injuries last year, he's entering his mid 30s. And we have to trade basically all our young prospects, multiple draft picks and fill the roster out with vet min guys. There would be enormous pressure to win too.

Not worth it. I'm not even entertaining the idea. KD gets hurt again we are a lottery team with no picks. 

Edited June 25, 2022 by marco102

[JayBirdHawk]

7 hours ago, Threezus said:

My god i might have just came across the most ignorant overpay of a trade i have ever seen before. 

Atlanta trades: AJ Griffin, Jalen Johnson, Onyeka Okongwu, Kevin Huerter, Clint Capella, 2023 ATL 1st

Atlanta receives: Rudy Gobert

So Rudy is now worth 6 1st round picks in value at 30+ years old and almost 40+ mil a year in contract.

The crazier part is this is actually not all utah receives for Rudy it's a multi team trade and utah gets even more in total than what we had to trade out lol.   Here is what all they got for Rudy in this trade.

Utah trades: Rudy Gobert

Utah receives: AJ Griffin, Jalen Johnson, Onyeka Okongwu, Dario Saric, Torrey Craig, 2023 ATL 1ST, 2023 BOS 1ST (1-20, 2 2nds), 2023 PHX 1st

Thats Rudy Gobert for like 8 1st round picks in value almost O.o

On the Crazy trade idea front...some Boston fan keeps thinking that the Hawks are so desperate to dump salary, that Boston can get Huerter FOR FREE. Traded to Boston into their $17 mil TPE for a 2nd rounder... LOL.

[marco102]

Just now, JayBirdHawk said:

On the Crazy trade idea front...some Boston fan keeps thinking that the Hawks are so desperate to dump salary, that Boston can get Huerter FOR FREE. Traded to Boston into their $17 mil TPE for a 2nd rounder... LOL.

Turrible.

[Gray Mule]

Last season's Hawk team had too many injuries.  Trading too many assets for a star might invite disaster if said star has a terrible injury.  Winning requires that we score more than our opponent.  Low scoring?  High scoring?  Doesn't matter.  You are required to score one more point.  End of story.

Fixin' em.

Edited June 25, 2022 by Gray Mule

[JTB]

1 hour ago, marco102 said:

You don't give out unprotected picks unless you are getting a superstar.  Murray is good, but he's no super star. 

Then don’t expect improvement this off season. We can’t get it both ways. At some point we need to say screw those picks…how many more young guys we need to wait to develop around Trae?

its going to be a big mistake if we keep following this pattern and Trae is coming up on his 3rd contract where he will be unrestricted and can go wherever he wants.

 

 

[NBASupes]

7 hours ago, Threezus said:

My god i might have just came across the most ignorant overpay of a trade i have ever seen before. 

Atlanta trades: AJ Griffin, Jalen Johnson, Onyeka Okongwu, Kevin Huerter, Clint Capella, 2023 ATL 1st

Atlanta receives: Rudy Gobert

So Rudy is now worth 6 1st round picks in value at 30+ years old and almost 40+ mil a year in contract.

The crazier part is this is actually not all utah receives for Rudy it's a multi team trade and utah gets even more in total than what we had to trade out lol.   Here is what all they got for Rudy in this trade.

Utah trades: Rudy Gobert

Utah receives: AJ Griffin, Jalen Johnson, Onyeka Okongwu, Dario Saric, Torrey Craig, 2023 ATL 1ST, 2023 BOS 1ST (1-20, 2 2nds), 2023 PHX 1st

Thats Rudy Gobert for like 8 1st round picks in value almost O.o

This is the Internet. Fans have instantly high value of their players and extremely low views of others. 

[marco102]

46 minutes ago, Diesel said:

If we have Trae, Murray, Hunter, Cap , Kev, Bogi and OO under contract.. tell me how are we destroyed?

 

All those players can get season ending injuries.  Not likely, but that's why you add protections.  

7 minutes ago, JTB said:

Then don’t expect improvement this off season. We can’t get it both ways. At some point we need to say screw those picks…how many more young guys we need to wait to develop around Trae?

its going to be a big mistake if we keep following this pattern and Trae is coming up on his 3rd contract where he will be unrestricted and can go wherever he wants.

 

 

Show me one trade recently where you're giving up a good player and two unprotected picks for a one time all star? 

I'm willing to give up lightly protected picks, but unprotected is not how people do things in the NBA for that caliber of a player.  You'll be held over the barrell in future trades as gm if you do that. 

Edited June 25, 2022 by marco102

[JayBirdHawk]

8 minutes ago, JTB said:

Then don’t expect improvement this off season. We can’t get it both ways. At some point we need to say screw those picks…how many more young guys we need to wait to develop around Trae?

its going to be a big mistake if we keep following this pattern and Trae is coming up on his 3rd contract where he will be unrestricted and can go wherever he wants.

 

 

It's about value and asset management.

Just like you don't trade Reddish and #16 for Andre Drummond when he gets traded for a 2nd rounder. Or trade #16 for an expiring Grant when he goes for a protected pick 3 years out.

You don't trade unprotected picks when you were just in the play-in tournament.

The biggest thing in all of this is if you are giving up 2 unprotected picks, you have assigned ZERO value to John Collins.

[JTB]

50 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

 

Agreed. Like I previously said, I've been wanting Murray on this team for the past 2 years, but you don't hand out unprotected picks like candy on Halloween for a player that isn't in the Tier 1 of superstars, on a 2 year contract while also sending them a player asset. It's too much.

 

Murray is 25. Trae is 23…players can grow! What if they need each other to reach Tier 1 status as a unit? 
 

this isn’t handing out picks like candy it’s a 1 time thing or should be.

 

this is the reason front offices don’t exceed here. They are picky when they can’t be. We aren’t a historic franchise, we aren’t going to persuade top players here easily. When the opportunity presents itself you go for it.

murray can get buckets, defend at a high level, great in transition, and rebound extremely well as a 2 guard. Yet we are worried about unproven future rookies.

mind blowing honestly.

[bleachkit]

I understand SAS position though. If we insisting on protecting the picks I could see why they would say no. Probably can reach a compromise where the picks are lightly protected (1-3) or something like that. 

[marco102]

8 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

This is the Internet. Fans have instantly high value of their players and extremely low views of others. 

We are all guilty of that.  I never thought I'd be saying no to a trade for KD. 

If he was 3 years younger, I'd be all in, but that risk is just too much for my apatite.  I also believe it is highly unlikely to happen and this will hold up us improving the team. 

[NBASupes]

1 minute ago, marco102 said:

We are all guilty of that.  I never thought I'd be saying no to a trade for KD. 

If he was 3 years younger, I'd be all in, but that risk is just too much for my apatite.  I also believe it is highly unlikely to happen and this will hold up us improving the team. 

I think we got a lot of talent, guys just gotta work on improving and want it BAD!

[JTB]

2 minutes ago, marco102 said:

 

Show me one trade recently where you're giving up a good player and two unprotected picks for a one time all star? 

Don’t need to. The problem is we’re the hawks franchise and we compare ourselves to what other franchises won’t do or shouldn’t  do as if we have the same prestige built up when we don’t.

trading two unprotected picks won’t be the end of the world especially when the team is still young. I may have a change of heart if Trae was 30 or Murray 32….but they are 23 and 25. You make this trade as a long term move not short term. 
 

We still would have a very young core. Trae 23, Murray 25, capela if he stays 26 or if we get Ayton he’s 23. OO even younger ….I don’t get the value of those picks when we would be in the playoffs not play in with the way the team would be assembled.