The Mega Super Rumor Thread (Part 2)

[bleachkit]

21 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

The way I see it...if we are sending unprotected picks, it means we have assigned a ZERO value to Collins and trading him as a salary dump.

I don't see your reasoning. Why would not protecting the picks mean we don't value Collins? Seems like unprotected picks would mean two things. One, that SAS insisted on it and that's the only way we could get a deal. And two, Hawks brass is confident those picks wont end up being top 5 because we think we will have a good team.

[Spud2nique]

1 minute ago, marco102 said:

You'll be extremely clean when we win the Championship! 

NO HAWK FLY ZONE:

KD

sCurry

Kry Thompson

Iguohobbled

Jamal Green 

Kyme

LeCrap

[Spud2nique]

3 minutes ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

I'm a ... user, and I appreciate it when people use them to break up long sentences.

No run on sentences with North, no CAPS with Gramps, no lil guards with cap (stone), no mention of FDR’s polio with Sturt. Man, y’all have a lotta rules here.

[bleachkit]

20 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

Exactly. The desperation for the Hawks to make a trade can't override good sense in the value we give up, particularly when Murray has only 2 years left on his contract.

And I honestly don't think they are haggling over unprotected picks. My guess the Hawks want lottery protected, Spurs looking for top 5 or similar.

Would you accept lottery protected if you were SAS? I wouldn't. They are giving up one of the best young and upcoming guards in the game. We surely aren't the only team bidding for him.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

1 hour ago, Diesel said:

We are not a team that develops talent anymore.   We have a superstar and we're trying to get into the championship picture.   Championship teams don't waste time developing while their superstars are young.  They acquire talent. 

 

AMEN!!!

(( middle-aged church ladies catching the Holy Ghost and passing out ))

 

[marco102]

4 minutes ago, bleachkit said:

Would you accept lottery protected if you were SAS? I wouldn't. They are giving up one of the best young and upcoming guards in the game. We surely aren't the only team bidding for him.

What other team who wants him is giving up a player the quality of JC? 

3 minutes ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

 

AMEN!!!

(( middle-aged church ladies catching the Holy Ghost and passing out ))

 

Nah, see the GS Warriors.  They did both.  I would hope we can. 

I'm not saying our young talent is untouchable, but shouldn't give it all up in one trade. 

 

[bleachkit]

2 minutes ago, marco102 said:

What other team who wants him is giving up a player the quality of JC? 

Nah, see the GS Warriors.  They did both.  I would hope we can. 

I'm not saying our young talent is untouchable, but shouldn't give it all up in one trade. 

 

We don't know what other offers SAS has gotten. But I would hope a compromise can reached on the protections.

[JayBirdHawk]

12 minutes ago, bleachkit said:

I don't see your reasoning. Why would not protecting the picks mean we don't value Collins? Seems like unprotected picks would mean two things. One, that SAS insisted on it and that's the only way we could get a deal. And two, Hawks brass is confident those picks wont end up being top 5 because we think we will have a good team.

This is the best way I can explain it.

Gallo and 2 unprotected 1sts sure....why? we are trying to salary dump his contract and SAS has no interest in Gallo, old and expiring.

SAS apparently has an interest in Collins and he is young and signed to a long term deal. So there is value there. You offset Collins' value with some form of protection on the picks vs the 2 years on Murray's contract.

 

[ShooterSays]

If this is really all it takes, we need to get this trade done yesterday.

[bleachkit]

1 minute ago, JayBirdHawk said:

This is the best way I can explain it.

Gallo and 2 unprotected 1sts sure....why? we are trying to salary dump his contract and SAS has no interest in Gallo, old and expiring.

SAS apparently has an interest in Collins and he is young and signed to a long term deal. So there is value there. You offset Collins' value with some form of protection on the picks vs the 2 years on Murray's contract.

 

Murray's value>Collins' value

[JayBirdHawk]

Just now, bleachkit said:

Murray's value>Collins' value

That's why the picks are added. I just don't see 2+ unprotected picks as the delta between the two.

[JayBirdHawk]

41 minutes ago, thecampster said:

There is an outside chance we could end up in a Jaylen Brown sweepstakes. This is one of the few deals we'd consider JJ or OO in. 

Going back to this:

Jaylen Brown ($28, $30) or Dejounte Murray ($17, $18)...both 25 years and 2 years remaining on their contracts.

Player comparison from last season:

https://stathead.com/basketball/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&player_id1=brownja02&p1yrfrom=2022&player_id2=murrade01&p2yrfrom=2022

 

Who would you want?

[bleachkit]

9 minutes ago, ShooterSays said:

If this is really all it takes, we need to get this trade done yesterday.

JC, next years FRP (lightly protected) and the Charlotte pick. JC plus 3FRP is too much. If SAS does not want JC then we need a third team. 

Edited June 25, 2022 by bleachkit

[marco102]

9 minutes ago, ShooterSays said:

If this is really all it takes, we need to get this trade done yesterday.

Plus John Collins and they want low protections on those picks which is a heavy price to pay. 

[marco102]

4 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

Going back to this:

Jaylen Brown ($28, $30) or Dejounte Murray ($17, $18)...both 25 years and 2 years remaining on their contracts.

Player comparison from last season:

https://stathead.com/basketball/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&player_id1=brownja02&p1yrfrom=2022&player_id2=murrade01&p2yrfrom=2022

 

Who would you want?

Is the gap in offensive efficiency worth $11 and $12 million dollars?  

The playmaking, rebounding and ballhandling is what seals it for Murray with me.  That's what the Hawks need.

 

Edited June 25, 2022 by marco102

[bleachkit]

Just now, marco102 said:

Plus John Collins and they want low protections on those picks which is a heavy price to pay. 

We might have to trade JC for draft capital, then use that capital to get Murray. Also we will have to pay Murray top dollar. But that's how it goes.

[marco102]

5 minutes ago, bleachkit said:

JC, next years FRP (lightly protected) and the Charlotte pick. JC plus 3FRP is too much. If SAS does not want JC then we need a third team. 

I'd give up three first rounders with third being HEAVLY protected.  I just can't go out there with no protections.

1 minute ago, bleachkit said:

We might have to trade JC for draft capital, then use that capital to get Murray. Also we will have to pay Murray top dollar. But that's how it goes.

Murray isn't due top dollar for two years.  Also, when that's due the salary cap with be be at least two times as big as it is now.  Murray just makes too much sense with his sensible contract and filling team needs for the Hawks.

[sturt]

1 hour ago, marco102 said:

If you think a career playmaking percentage of 28 is average

You're trying so hard.

The question is whether Murray's previous playmaking was more than "meh," given your assertion that he's a "proven" playmaker. There is no debate that he was a "proven" defender. The question here is the playmaker part.

So, no, to make that assessment we do not take his career average, and insert into the calculation credit for his one high-quality season. To make that assessment, we look at "What is the evidence that he was pedestrian prior to the most recent season?"

Prior to 21-22, his range had been as high as 25.9 and as low as 20.2, and the mean had been 22.5.

Look at the company that would have put him in last season, had he replicated his previous performance, and tell me you still think he's a "proven" playmaker with a straight face... though, of course, I can't see you to know if you're giggling or not, but I'll trust you. (I've screenshot the players in that very same range from 20.2 to 25.9, and marked the mean of 22.5.)

 

Yes, he was and is a proven defender.

No, he is not a proven playmaker. At least by my standard, maybe not yours. (Hope you'll re-think that, though.)

 

[marco102]

3 minutes ago, sturt said:

You're trying so hard.

The question is whether Murray's previous playmaking was more than "meh," given your assertion that he's a "proven" playmaker. There is no debate that he was a "proven" defender. The question here is the playmaker part.

So, no, to make that assessment we do not take his career average, an insert into the calculation credit for his one high-quality season. To make that assessment, we look at "What is the evidence that he was pedestrian prior to the most recent season?"

Prior to 21-22, his range had been as high as 25.9 and as low as 20.2, and the mean had been 22.5.

Look at the company that would have put him in last season, had he replicated his previous performance, and tell me you still think he's a "proven" playmaker with a straight face... though, of course, I can't see you to know if you're giggling or not, but I'll trust you. (I've screenshot the players in that very same range from 20.2 to 25.9, and marked the mean of 22.5.)

 

 

Yes, he was and is a proven defender.

No, he is not a proven playmaker. At least by my standard, maybe not yours. (Hope you'll re-think that, though.)

 

I'm not reading all that and I'm done with this. 

For someone who is so high on character, it's really hard for you to say, " I misunderstood someone".

Edited June 25, 2022 by marco102

[JayBirdHawk]

@thecampster @Sothron @NBASupes  Is OKC still in play for a Gallo trade?