Take the 25 game pledge (... or if not, modify it to suit your own convictions... )

[JayBirdHawk]

On 11/29/2022 at 1:07 PM, JayBirdHawk said:

I know this pledge is about the roster and players...but I'm going to start with coaching. I'm laying EVERYTHING at Nate's feet.

1. I'm not a fan of Nate! Same as it was last year, same this year.

2. His offensive philosophy of attacking mismatches and playing in the midrange, it leads to too much ISO stuff.  The inflexibility with his rotations, timing and personnel usage.  He does not coach with situational instinct.  It's your time to go in or come out - so that's what will happen.  In game adjustment - very rare.

2. We are a low volume, low percentage shooting 3-point shooting team - not in todays NBA.  His comment regarding ignoring what the analytics say - sure sure sure.  See where we are? smh

3. PACE PACE PACE - Our pace is at a snails' pace recently, particularly late in the 4th quarters

4. What was his reasoning for visiting Trae in OKC in the offseason?  I haven't seen any offensive wrinkles for any changes.

5. He said something before the Miami game about the reason for getting DJ was his ability to help on Miami switches - really - that's it. that's it?  Really?

6. His army of characters on the bench is some low-grade stuff.

7. We have not been able to solve the zone - this is by far the biggest thing which in turn leads to a very slooooooww pace. Passing the ball around the perimeter with guys stationary then shooting a 3 will not bust a zone. What is the play call?  Or are the players just nor executing?

8. I'm not a fan of Nate! Same as it was last year, same this year.

 

I'm right there with you on Nate @AHF

[JayBirdHawk]

1 hour ago, AHF said:

I'm ready to give my conviction after 25 (actually 32) games.  I'm done with Nate.  Done with the lack of creativity to get Trae and DM going.  Done with the iso offense down the stretch.  Done with the "paint by numbers" rotation where guys come in and out on schedule regardless of how hot or cold people are.  Done with the "your turn, my turn" offense the Hawks run too much of the time.  Done with Nate putting people in position to fail (putting Bogi in for the final defensive possession is an example of this).

I don't see any creativity.  Too many head scratching moves that are obvious mistakes even to fans like me who are just fans and not true students of the game.  Nate shouldn't have to hear from people like me that you ride a hot hand or that you switch offense for defense or how to use screens, etc.

I hope Landry Fields has his short list of candidates and is ready to pull the trigger before the end of the season.

Give me Becky - these male coaches are failing  

[Jdawgflow]

47 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

Give me Becky - these male coaches are failing  

I think she would be a great hire.  Wins wherever she goes.

[sturt]

Soberly, I believe Becky should get the chance like most well-regarded assistants... like Lloyd Pierce did... a team that's somewhere in the development stages, positioning itself for serious contention in a year or two or three.

 

Soberly, I believe ATL has ambitions to seriously contend this year. Or I thought that. And I thought we all thought that, actually.

 

Soberly, I will lose significant confidence in this basketball company if the owner... who has been, indeed, known somewhat for his progressive political agendas... makes this about penises and vaginas.

 

Soberly, hypothetically if any change were to be made...

(... and me, I'm about a half-dozen games away now from going beyond observation to reaching any conclusions about the on-court, including about the coaching and game strategy...)

it cannot be for a coach who brings zero playoff experience at the highest level of responsibility. It doesn't have to be hiring Popovich away from SAS... could be someone even like Nate who prior to coming to ATL had less than exceptional results. At the very least, it needs to be someone who has been the irrefutable right hand of someone highly successful for many years.

 

 

[Spud2nique]

8 minutes ago, sturt said:

Soberly, I believe Becky should get the chance like most well-regarded assistants... like Lloyd Pierce did... a team that's somewhere in the development stages, positioning itself for serious contention in a year or two or three.

 

Soberly, I believe ATL has ambitions to seriously contend this year. Or I thought that. And I thought we all thought that, actually.

 

Soberly, I will lose significant confidence in this basketball company if the owner... who has been, indeed, known somewhat for his progressive political agendas... makes this about penises and vaginas.

 

Soberly, hypothetically if any change were to be made...

(... and me, I'm about a half-dozen games away now from going beyond observation to reaching any conclusions about the on-court, including about the coaching and game strategy...)

it cannot be for a coach who brings zero playoff experience at the highest level of responsibility. It doesn't have to be hiring Popovich away from SAS... could be someone even like Nate who prior to coming to ATL had less than exceptional results. At the very least, it needs to be someone who has been the irrefutable right hand of someone highly successful for many years.

 

 

You been posting drunk this whole time or… you keep saying soberly? 

[Spud2nique]

17 hours ago, JayBirdHawk said:

Give me Becky - these male coaches are failing  

Becky is good. She’s up there for me too. I bet she has a totally unique style that would work, just a hunch. 
 

Cassell is one of those cats too. He would bring some new style.

[sturt]

42 minutes ago, Spud2nique said:

you keep saying soberly

 

[Spud2nique]

4 minutes ago, sturt said:

 

Do we have regular drunk posters in here? I heard of drunk calling and texting but drunk Hawk talk? That’s just …  different.

Foster Brooks time  

 

[sturt]

ICYMI

 

[JeffS17]

Did anyone watch that Ben Taylor podcast?  About why our offense sucks?  I can't recall if it was posted here... anyways, it's good and reinforces we need a new offensive coach

[AHF]

I hate it but if/when Becky gets hired a bunch of fans will cry out that she only got hired because “she is a yucky gurl” ignoring all the males who have been hired with MUCH less coaching experience.  (Like Steve Nash, Chauncey Billups, Jason Kidd let alone the assistants like Joe Mazulla.)  Nobody bats an eye about Mazulla getting hired with 3 years of coaching experience but a whole bunch of people are going to whine babies about woke culture or do the Tucker Carlson “I’m just asking questions when I ask if she was only hired because she is a woman” routine.  There is no doubt in my mind she would be a head coach already  if teams weren’t scared of getting that gamergate type of outrage.

[Spud2nique]

1 minute ago, AHF said:

I hate it but if/when Becky gets hired a bunch of fans will cry out that she only got hired because “she is a yucky gurl” ignoring all the males who have been hired with MUCH less coaching experience.  (Like Steve Nash, Chauncey Billups, Jason Kidd let alone the assistants like Joe Mazulla.)  Nobody bats an eye about Mazulla getting hired with 3 years of coaching experience but a whole bunch of people are going to whine babies about woke culture or do the Tucker Carlson “I’m just asking questions when I ask if she was only hired because she is a woman” routine.  There is no doubt in my mind she would be a head coach already  if teams weren’t scared of getting that gamergate type of outrage.

Ya, I think many of us here though and the folks who follow the NBA regularly and basketball overall know that she knows her stuff. Personally, I don’t care if you’re a male/Felmale, what race, color , ethnicity etc. You could be an avatar blue character and can coach that’s fine with me. 
 

 

[sturt]

18 minutes ago, AHF said:

There is no doubt in my mind she would be a head coach already

Maybe.

Sure is the more politically correct angle. Have to admit, either side you play on this one, you're going to be branded as too closed minded or too welcoming to novel ideas. Can't get away from that part, at the risk of stating the obvious.

Soberly, isn't it hard to say what attention Benji Hammon would have been able to get out of 8 seasons as an assistant coach for a single team, albeit under one of the most admired head coaches of our time?

Wonder if there are any examples of that... someone who labored for 8 seasons as an assistant coach for a single team, albeit under one of the most admired head coaches of our time... ???

Hmmm.

Yeah, sure there is.

How about Bud? He did 8 years for Pop. Was it just 8, though?

[sturt]

23 minutes ago, Spud2nique said:

know

No you don't.

"Know" is a higher threshold.

You think. You have that impression. You have that opinion. Might be a right opinion. Might.

 

This, to me, is exactly why what AHF just said is so true.... there are people who very very very much want this to happen, and who so overstate their capacity to assess this assistant coach that it becomes hard not to conclude that there is some significant hyperbole to cut through in order to make a good decision.

 

Again, don't misread me. I'm all good with some developmental team hiring her... as I would most any other assistant coach that a given GM would consider the best option... no one hires someone because they want to damage their own career, after all. But like any other person with that kind of resume', the consistent approach is that, and not to presume she's proven. There's reason for optimism, sure. Like there are for a lot just like her. There's not reason to suggest she's proven, and in fact, it kind of gets in the way of her being taken as seriously as she perhaps otherwise could be.

[sturt]

34 minutes ago, AHF said:

males who have been hired with MUCH less coaching experience

Point is valid, but then again looking beyond that point, is it not true that routinely those hires have been criticized for their lack of coaching experience... and some of those have flamed out pretty quickly after the initial enthusiasm?

That that's happened and it was found to be a mistake on the other side of it is not an argument for more of the same.

38 minutes ago, AHF said:

 Nobody bats an eye about Mazulla getting hired with 3 years of coaching experience

Really?

We must have a different reading routine. That's not been my experience.

[Gray Mule]

12 minutes ago, sturt said:

 

Hmmm.

Yeah, sure there is.

How about Bud? He did 8 years for Pop. Was it just 8, though?

Becky spent a year as assistant coach under Pop and, in fact, assumed the head coaches chair when he was temporarily out for a few games.  Note:  The NBA world didn't stop turning when this happened.

If Atlanta must change coaches I can't think of a better candidate because "She knows stuff!"  

[sturt]

50 minutes ago, JeffS17 said:

Ben Taylor

Who is Ben Taylor?

Chuck Taylor, I know.

Honestly, I just looked and there are numerous Ben Taylors worthy of some Wikipedia fame. I'm not seeing one that would seem to have some exceptional basketball acumen. Need some help here.

[sturt]

4 minutes ago, Gray Mule said:

I can't think of a better candidate

I can rattle off probably a dozen. At least.

 

That "she knows stuff" doesn't separate her from the pack.

That she's filled-in as head coach doesn't separate her from the pack.

 

Give her a prove-herself job. A real one, not just a chair next to Pop.

Ours is not a prove-herself job. We can't be doing grand experiments with any unproven assistant coach at this stage in our evolution and pretend we're putting the team in the best position to contend.

There are better qualified options. That they happen to have penises shouldn't be a negative or a positive. Shouldn't have anything to do with it.

[JeffS17]

1 hour ago, sturt said:

Who is Ben Taylor?

Chuck Taylor, I know.

Honestly, I just looked and there are numerous Ben Taylors worthy of some Wikipedia fame. I'm not seeing one that would seem to have some exceptional basketball acumen. Need some help here.

This is the podcast I was referencing.  Ben Taylor is a podcaster and basketball mind.  He has very good, detailed, breakdowns of players and teams.  He is one of the sharper basketball analysts and is a very good communicator -- highly recommend his videos on YouTube.

[sturt]

44 minutes ago, JeffS17 said:

This is the podcast I was referencing.  Ben Taylor is a podcaster and basketball mind.  He has very good, detailed, breakdowns of players and teams.  He is one of the sharper basketball analysts and is a very good communicator -- highly recommend his videos on YouTube.

Thanks.

Will admit I was being slightly facetious... it also turned out in my quick search that the guy apparently has taken a stab at sportswriting, and self-published a book on basketball.

But/and any of us could do that.

Doesn't make his insights invalid; to the contrary, there's been plenty of people of no actual regard able to slice and dice some rational basketball analylsis. But only reason I might give it a look is that you give him regard, no different than if you'd recommended the YouTube video of macdaddy or GrayMule or Jay or whoever else here.