Official Game Thread: Hawks at Pistons (Wednesday)

[Final_quest]

3 minutes ago, REHawksFan said:

Can we talk about the lack of effective offense from the bench and, really, the units without Trae?  This was supposed to be fixed by adding DJM but that unit has been BAD offensively.  

Trae's ON/OFF are crazy through 4 games: 

• 116.3 OFF Rtg with Trae vs 97.8 OFF Rtg when Trae sits.  
• eFG% 53.1% with Trae vs 45.4% without
• +8.7 NET Rtg with Trae vs -17.4 NET Rtg when Trae sits

I realize this is a bit of a small sample size, but still. The offense when Trae sits is no bueno. 

That is the exact observation I thought about adding to my post.  All this talk about "Trae sucks" and "Trae just disrupts the flow" ..."His shooting sucks!".

What this says to me is that even with Trae playing bad and inefficient compared to his usual number... He is still our best player by a mile.  When he comes alive, we'll be even better.  Bogi and AJ we need you in these games, too.  Also, DJM should improve.  

[Peoriabird]

13 minutes ago, REHawksFan said:

Can we talk about the lack of effective offense from the bench and, really, the units without Trae?  This was supposed to be fixed by adding DJM but that unit has been BAD offensively.  

Trae's ON/OFF are crazy through 4 games: 

• 116.3 OFF Rtg with Trae vs 97.8 OFF Rtg when Trae sits.  
• eFG% 53.1% with Trae vs 45.4% without
• +8.7 NET Rtg with Trae vs -17.4 NET Rtg when Trae sits

I realize this is a bit of a small sample size, but still. The offense when Trae sits is no bueno. 

I made a thread about the problem children

[REHawksFan]

2 minutes ago, Final_quest said:

That is the exact observation I thought about adding to my post.  All this talk about "Trae sucks" and "Trae just disrupts the flow" ..."His shooting sucks!".

What this says to me is that even with Trae playing bad and inefficient compared to his usual number... He is still our best player by a mile.  When he comes alive, we'll be even better.  Bogi and AJ we need you in these games, too.  Also, DJM should improve. 

What is striking to me is that despite Trae shooting so poorly, the Team's eFG% when he is on the court is substantially higher than when he sits which tells me that he's teeing up his teammates to get very good shots.  And yes, we badly need Bogi and AJ to play to help with spacing. j

6 minutes ago, Final_quest said:

Capela +22
Okongwu -19

We started this game strong and ended strong.  The 38 minutes in between is where we had a number of issues.  Bogi can't get back soon enough.  The plus/minus shows a massive swing with Capela and Okongwu, and no other substitution is even close.

Jalen played a lot better, hoping for continued improvement.  When he loosens up I think we'll see more of his inside/outside game that he shows in the G league.  It's gonna be ugly at times, but I think it could pay off.  We ALL begged for him to get minutes, and if anyone expected something different they were fooling themselves.  See the end from the beginning.  

Aaron Holiday actually made some good plays and some disruptive defense at times.  

A lot of talk about shooting, but the PnR with Trae and Capela that helped us have the top offensive rating last year... what is the story with moving away from that?  Do we hate the lob suddenly?

I wonder if the Lob is more difficult because the lane is clogged / more crowded due to the lack of spacing.  If defenders don't have to guard out to the 3pt line, they can crowd the lane and make those lob passes much more difficult.  We saw it last night with a Piston deflecting the lob a couple of times. 

[Peoriabird]

3 minutes ago, REHawksFan said:

What is striking to me is that despite Trae shooting so poorly, the Team's eFG% when he is on the court is substantially higher than when he sits which tells me that he's teeing up his teammates to get very good shots.  And yes, we badly need Bogi and AJ to play to help with spacing. j

I wonder if the Lob is more difficult because the lane is clogged / more crowded due to the lack of spacing.  If defenders don't have to guard out to the 3pt line, they can crowd the lane and make those lob passes much more difficult.  We saw it last night with a Piston deflecting the lob a couple of times. 

Here we go with the spacing argument ignoring the fact that John was eating in the paint and so was Hunter.

[REHawksFan]

1 minute ago, Peoriabird said:

Here we go with the spacing argument ignoring the fact that John was eating in the paint and so was Hunter.

Early in the game that was true. As the game went on, it got a lot harder and neither player was feasting in the paint.  You can ignore it all you want but it doesn't change the fact that teams are not respecting the outside shot which is going to make the mid range and lobs more difficult.  Doesn't mean they won't still hit some, but it does mean it will be more difficult. 

 

[terrell]

9 hours ago, Diesel said:

One thing...  Stewart and Duren looked more competent than OO ...    OO needs to get something together.   He's up and down. 

[terrell]

9 hours ago, benhillboy said:

12 team blocks, hell yeah.

Trae with only 1 turn and 16-17 from the line.  Is it me or has most of his 9 career misses from the line come on technicals?

OO -19, ouch, never seen him that bad.  I don’t have an issue with his rebounding like some but Duren in particular worked him tonight.  He did go 5-5 tho.

I’ll take a 75% win clip everyday let’s go.

OO is just a guy...Sorry.. No way he's taking over the center position after CC...He's just too damn small..

And if he's a PF, is he gonna be a career backup here or what? 

8 hours ago, Diesel said:

The win is the most important thing.  One step closer to respectability.   We still got some kinks to work out... especially with 2nd team getting in and out of offense...  

But we didn't disappoint tonight.   Gameball to Trae. 

AH was impressive to me.  AHoli kinda shut down Cade in the 2nd half... It was a team effort but with Aholi out there, there were no easy buckets. 

 

Yeah AH is our best Holiday.. lol

[terrell]

8 hours ago, JTB said:

Thank you it is a huge concern! ….when Capela leaves the game we are getting our lunch taken in the interior with ease.

OO is really struggling with centers bigger then him. Last season it felt like he matched up a little better even though we saw some of the same. JJ is very small to be playing any big man position in my opinion.

yup you are spot on with this one. I’m past worried. I’m wondering what McMillan is going to do about it. 

Every center is bigger than OO...

[kg01]

5 hours ago, Spud2nique said:

Well no Mr. Sarcasm but it is time to trade JHol and JJ for Crowder. 

And AJ?  Jae Pippen is worth it all, right?

[NBASupes]

43 minutes ago, REHawksFan said:

What is striking to me is that despite Trae shooting so poorly, the Team's eFG% when he is on the court is substantially higher than when he sits which tells me that he's teeing up his teammates to get very good shots.  And yes, we badly need Bogi and AJ to play to help with spacing. j

I wonder if the Lob is more difficult because the lane is clogged / more crowded due to the lack of spacing.  If defenders don't have to guard out to the 3pt line, they can crowd the lane and make those lob passes much more difficult.  We saw it last night with a Piston deflecting the lob a couple of times. 

It's the teams we are playing against. Young, athletic teams built for the modern NBA 

[terrell]

10 hours ago, JayBirdHawk said:

One subtle move by Nate was bringing in OO earlier in the 3rd,  so that when Duren came in he matched up vs Clint. His size was a problem for OO.

Not hitting the panic button yet, but Okongwu being excellent defensively in his first two seasons to a borderline defensive liability in his first 4 games this year is one of the most WTF things I've seen in the past decade.

[Spud2nique]

25 minutes ago, kg01 said:

Jae Pippen

You have a thing for Pippen? Didn’t you compare Cam to Pippen?  

[kg01]

Just now, Spud2nique said:

You have a thing for Pippen? Didn’t you compare Cam to Pippen?  

Nah, I compared him to Moss ... 

[Spud2nique]

Just now, kg01 said:

Nah, I compared him to Moss ... 

Don’t you make me pull receipts this early… I’ll do it!!! I’m crazy like that. One time Bossman said let’s work on these files later, I was a bad boy and did it right then!  
 

 

[Spud2nique]

3 minutes ago, kg01 said:

Nah, I compared him to Moss ... 

Waaaaaaaiiiiiiiiiiiiiittttt a minute…

 

Santana Moss? 
 

  

[Spud2nique]

McMillan’s eye just twitched when he heard AJ! He knows AJ needs to be in there. In the presser, Nate didn’t even have a good answer as to why not AJ! 
 

Just saying “matchups”…

Lemme tell you something Nate, ain’t no matchup JHol can handle that AJ can’t.

38 minutes ago, kg01 said:

And AJ? 

What about my boy? He’s beautiful!  

[Peoriabird]

1 hour ago, REHawksFan said:

Early in the game that was true. As the game went on, it got a lot harder and neither player was feasting in the paint.  You can ignore it all you want but it doesn't change the fact that teams are not respecting the outside shot which is going to make the mid range and lobs more difficult.  Doesn't mean they won't still hit some, but it does mean it will be more difficult. 

 

Not true...the Hawks got away from the post up and setting screens for Hunter...the Pistons didn't change a thing. They went to this dribble the air out of the ball offense with Murray instead of moving the ball. Heck even Trae was getting into the paint at will until he just decided to not do it anymore and settle for 3's.

[Spud2nique]

@NBASupes I need expertise and answers here! Despite JJ looking good on a bucket followed by a nice corner 3, why is it that he looks OUT OF PLACE on the floor. It’s almost like he’s the ISO guy or something. I can’t put my finger on it. Supes, can you help a brother out. I’ll  ask Scot E. Pippen aka @kg01 too. 
 

AJ flows with the offense. 
 

J Hol flows with the offense.

 

[Diesel]

2 minutes ago, Spud2nique said:

@NBASupes I need expertise and answers here! Despite JJ looking good on a bucket followed by a nice corner 3, why is it that he looks OUT OF PLACE on the floor. It’s almost like he’s the ISO guy or something. I can’t put my finger on it. Supes, can you help a brother out. I’ll  ask Scot E. Pippen aka @kg01 too. 
 

AJ flows with the offense. 
 

J Hol flows with the offense.

 

You have to understand that JJ have not had a lot of formal team play.    He's had a lot of one on one play and you see it in his game.   He goes out there and plays IsoJoe ball.   That's because he didn't play in his senior year.   He played on an AAU team that at the time didn't have pro prospects but him.  He didn't play a lot in college due to injury.   And he's been a project since he's been here. 

I think he can overcome his lack of training and that's what the G-League was supposed to do.  However, it's still in his game. 

 

[Gray Mule]

Last season Atlanta lost their games in Detroit.  They had a hard time doing it but they won last night.

It's set in cement.  It cannot be changed.  Nate has a nine man rotation.  Several have asked, why didn't AJ get to play?  We need his shooting.  Simple.  He's not on the nine.

Several have stated that our non starters were not really great.  Did you know that, actually, Atlanta is allowed to dress 15 players?  It's true!  Is it possible that some of our "extra" players might help?  Guess we will never know.  When Bogie returns, someone will lose their place on the favored nine.

Friday night we do it again.  Same opponent.  Same nine?  Probably.  Why change.  We won.