Official Game Thread: Hawks at Bucks

[marco102]

35 minutes ago, Watchman said:

An honest inquiry:

Fairly early in the second Detroit game, did anyone besides me notice (or think they noticed) that Collins attempted to hand the ball off to Trae in the backcourt, shortly after an inbounds play or change of possession, and he did it a little nonchalantly, and it got picked off.  Trae immediately grabbed Collins by the arm and started lecturing him on it.  After that, Collins almost never saw the ball in the remainder of the Detroit game and likewise for the Milwaukee game.  Am I imagining things?  I know it's Trae's team, and there is no point in complaining about  it, but if it is true, Trae is hurting team comradery to show his displeasure for one dumb play.  How many dumb plays does Trae get in every game?  That kind of petty behavior is not good.  Murray has played differently since that time as well (more one on one, less ball movement).  Maybe I'm wrong, but that is the way it seemed to go to me.

This is insane and I hate  when people put inuendo out there as fact.  Trae was mad because JC didn't give him the ball at the appropriate spot and they talked it over. 

The reason Collins didn't get the ball in the Milwaukee game is he can't post up with all that length Milwaukee has and they have strong guards. 

With Dejounte you can't say it's all on Trae.

29 minutes ago, JeffS17 said:

I commented this at some point last season, but it is painfully clear to me that Trae is not that fond of JC.  I'm not saying he hates the dude or they're actively beefing, but he has never really seemed to care for him.  My personal take is that JC has tried really hard to be the leader of the team and that rubs Trae the wrong way, but last year JC would be giving passionate pep talks to the team on the bench and Trae would be staring into space ignoring him.  Off-court chemistry has stayed off between then.  It's easy to preach it's a business and everyone should just be professional on the court, but off-court chemistry will always impact on-court play.  

 

All just my opinion based on watching them interact during timeouts, on the bench, etc. during all the home games last season so take it with a grain of salt.

Every home game I go to they interact fine and not trying to sound like some big shot, but I sit really close to the bench. 

Edited October 30, 2022 by marco102

[JayBirdHawk]

6 games in - let's blow it up, JC and Trae got 'beef'....I can't with allya. Sigh!

[FL_BRYANT]

10 hours ago, JTB said:

Collins isn’t the problem he has played very good so far this season especially on defense. We can’t ask him to grow 3 - 5 inches in height and length. We can ask him to get stronger and more powerful.

What we really need to do is add to our Big man rotation. That may mean finding that needed big man with Bogi’s salary but way to early for that conversation. 
 

Collins has a history of struggling with lengthy athletic players but he has stepped up this season and been more aggressive defensively in all these games which we haven’t seen before. Let’s see how this new aggression does vs the Raptors on Monday. Cause that’s another very good test.

4 pts and 4 shots fall both on Collins and the guards not getting him the ball. But we have seen this kind of production in big games in the past. 4 pts and 4 shots is totally unacceptable. JC has had more than enough time to get stronger.  I have talked  about his inability to establish/hold  low post position for years now.  He constantly gets rooted out the post not only by bigs but also smaller  players.  I didn't want him to get traded but I do expect him to get stronger  and show up against the best talent  in big games. I have constantly  talked about how we lacked both size and physicality. Why the Hawks refuse to add size to  the roster I don't understand .

No JC didn't lose the game but he does have a history of not showing up in big games. 

[JeffS17]

9 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

6 games in - let's blow it up, JC and Trae got 'beef'....I can't with allya. Sigh!

No one is suggesting that -- talking about ways to potentially improve and discussing JCs low FGA.  No need to hyperbolize the discussion

[Watchman]

1 hour ago, marco102 said:

This is insane and I hate  when people put inuendo out there as fact.  Trae was mad because JC didn't give him the ball at the appropriate spot and they talked it over. 

The reason Collins didn't get the ball in the Milwaukee game is he can't post up with all that length Milwaukee has and they have strong guards. 

With Dejounte you can't say it's all on Trae.

Every home game I go to they interact fine and not trying to sound like some big shot, but I sit really close to the bench. 

Who put it out there as fact?  You obviously didn't read what I asked, did you?  However, since you responded rudely, I will reply in like manner. 

How many 30 foot bricks does Trae hoist up every game?  Do his teammates chew him out over it?  Not that we know of.  BTW, Trae couldn't overpower a wet noodle, if you're big into strength.  

I'm not trying to insult Trae, but it annoys me when people when you take what I asked as a legitimate question, and twist it into innuendo too.  All I know is that Collins was getting more shots, and averaging close to 20/10 prior to this event.  Now he gets 4 shots a game.

 

[marco102]

2 hours ago, Watchman said:

I know it's Trae's team, and there is no point in complaining about  it, but if it is true, Trae is hurting team comradery to show his displeasure for one dumb play.  How many dumb plays does Trae get in every game?  That kind of petty behavior is not good.  Murray has played differently since that time as well (more one on one, less ball movement).  Maybe I'm wrong, but that is the way it seemed to go to me.

in·nu·en·do

/ˌinyəˈwendō/

Learn to pronounce

 

noun

 

1. an allusive or oblique remark or hint, typically a suggestive or disparaging one.

    

    

   16 minutes ago, Watchman said:

   Who put it out there as fact?  You obviously didn't read what I asked, did you?  However, since you responded rudely, I will reply in like manner. 

   How many 30 foot bricks does Trae hoist up every game?  Do his teammates chew him out over it?  Not that we know of.  BTW, Trae couldn't overpower a wet noodle, if you're big into strength.  

   I'm not trying to insult Trae, but it annoys me when people when you take what I asked as a legitimate question, and twist it into innuendo too.  All I know is that Collins was getting more shots, and averaging close to 20/10 prior to this event.  Now he gets 4 shots a game.

    

   There you go. You are asking an outlandish question which is innuendo.  I wasn't trying to be rude, but the follow up by Jeff served the purpose.  He hopped right on to say they don't get along from his observations.  How are you going to blame the shot attempts on Trae only?   We have Murray who can get the ball to JC when Trae's not on the court?  Did JC piss off Murray too or anyone else that can pass him the ball?  The four attempts he did take, didn't Trae get him the ball on those?  There are things like coverages teams are playing that may dictate who gets what.  JC hasn't seem frustrated or anything.  Maybe it's part of Nate's game plan depending on the match ups. 

   I'm just trying to temper your biases leading you to certain unfounded questions or conclusions.  

   Also, they very well could hate each other, but my observations is they are solid teammates who aren't the best of friends, but respect each other and both want to win together.

   Edit: I should add. I did misinterpret your first message as a statement and not questions and do apologize for that. You were not stating that as fact.

Edited October 30, 2022 by marco102

[Watchman]

8 minutes ago, marco102 said:

in·nu·en·do

/ˌinyəˈwendō/

Learn to pronounce

 

noun

 

1. an allusive or oblique remark or hint, typically a suggestive or disparaging one.

    

    

   There you go. You are asking an outlandish question which is innuendo.  I wasn't trying to be rude, but the follow up by Jeff served the purpose.  He hopped right on to say they don't get along from his observations.  How are you going to blame the shot attempts on Trae only?   We have Murray who can get the ball to JC when Trae's not on the court?  Did JC piss off Murray too or anyone else that can pass him the ball?  The four attempts he did take, didn't Trae get him the ball on those?  There are things like coverages teams are playing that may dictate who gets what.  JC hasn't seem frustrated or anything.  Maybe it's part of Nate's game plan depending on the match ups. 

   I'm just trying to temper your biases leading you to certain unfounded questions or conclusions.  

   Also, they very well could hate each other, but my observations is they are solid teammates who aren't the best of friends, but respect each other and both want to win together.

   Edit: I should add. I did misinterpret your first message as a statement and not questions and do apologize for that. You were not stating that as fact.

Not a problem.  Sorry for my rudeness.  I agree that even if they don't like each other, they have to put it aside when they're on the court.  Collins has at least started putting the ball on the floor more this year, so he is beginning to create a little for himself, as is Hunter.

[marco102]

6 minutes ago, Watchman said:

Not a problem.  Sorry for my rudeness.  I agree that even if they don't like each other, they have to put it aside when they're on the court.  Collins has at least started putting the ball on the floor more this year, so he is beginning to create a little for himself, as is Hunter.

Honestly, didn't think you were rude and apologize for coming off that way myself. 

[Diesel]

On Ayton...

You trade for Ayton.. i.e. CC for Ayton in some fashion..  you will become weaker defensively and stronger offensively.    Unlike Clint, Ayton will demand the ball on offense.   

I think some of you need to think about chemistry.     Trae, DJM, Ayton... all wanting the ball.   Whaddayuthink happens?

The easier fix is to invest in a big that can play bigs (DEFENSIVELY)...  We needed 2 - 3 rebounds to go our way and we win that game yesterday.   Noting that Milwaukee will get better.   However,   we could have also played the 2nd qtr like we played the 4th.   Even if the Ref's wouldn't call anymore fouls and allow us to get to the line. 

 

 

[Watchman]

1 minute ago, marco102 said:

Honestly, didn't think you were rude and apologize for coming off that way myself. 

You weren't.  Sometimes I'm a little on the grumpy side.  I just hope we can maintain the chemistry now that we've added Murray.  

[Watchman]

3 minutes ago, Diesel said:

On Ayton...

You trade for Ayton.. i.e. CC for Ayton in some fashion..  you will become weaker defensively and stronger offensively.    Unlike Clint, Ayton will demand the ball on offense.   

I think some of you need to think about chemistry.     Trae, DJM, Ayton... all wanting the ball.   Whaddayuthink happens?

The easier fix is to invest in a big that can play bigs (DEFENSIVELY)...  We needed 2 - 3 rebounds to go our way and we win that game yesterday.   Noting that Milwaukee will get better.   However,   we could have also played the 2nd qtr like we played the 4th.   Even if the Ref's wouldn't call anymore fouls and allow us to get to the line. 

 

 

Slight variation on this subject - Do you think Kaminsky would have been able to contain Lopez a little better because of his length, and because he is more of a perimeter player?

[kg01]

6 minutes ago, Watchman said:

You weren't.  Sometimes I'm a little on the grumpy side.  I just hope we can maintain the chemistry now that we've added Murray.  

I got a little misty at yall squashin' potential beef so fast.  Shows maturity.  You and @marco102 are real role models out here.

Heck, I'm almost tempted to squash the beef I have with..... ah, nevermind.  Screw that guy.

Carry on...... 

[Watchman]

Just now, kg01 said:

I got a little misty at yall squashin' potential beef so fast.  Shows maturity.  You and @marco102 are real role models out here.

Heck, I'm almost tempted to squash the beef I have with..... ah, nevermind.  Screw that guy.

Carry on...... 

I can get grumpy in a hurry.  Sorry.  Old age is kicking in, and I'm not as self-controlled as Gray Mule.  

[kg01]

3 minutes ago, Watchman said:

I can get grumpy in a hurry.  Sorry.  Old age is kicking in, and I'm not as self-controlled as Gray Mule.  

We all do.  The honest ones among us can admit it.  The mature ones among us can acknowledge it, make it right, and move forward. 

[marco102]

4 minutes ago, Watchman said:

I can get grumpy in a hurry.  Sorry.  Old age is kicking in, and I'm not as self-controlled as Gray Mule.  

 

6 minutes ago, kg01 said:

I got a little misty at yall squashin' potential beef so fast.  Shows maturity.  You and @marco102 are real role models out here.

Heck, I'm almost tempted to squash the beef I have with..... ah, nevermind.  Screw that guy.

Carry on...... 

You know 90% of our problems in the world would be solved if people just admit they may have misinterpreted something and find common ground.

It's okay to say you're wrong.  I'm wrong a lot.

[JTB]

12 minutes ago, Diesel said:

On Ayton...

You trade for Ayton.. i.e. CC for Ayton in some fashion..  you will become weaker defensively and stronger offensively.    Unlike Clint, Ayton will demand the ball on offense.   

I think some of you need to think about chemistry.     Trae, DJM, Ayton... all wanting the ball.   Whaddayuthink happens?

The easier fix is to invest in a big that can play bigs (DEFENSIVELY)...  We needed 2 - 3 rebounds to go our way and we win that game yesterday.   Noting that Milwaukee will get better.   However,   we could have also played the 2nd qtr like we played the 4th.   Even if the Ref's wouldn't call anymore fouls and allow us to get to the line. 

 

 

The person you just described is Rudy Gobert who most on these boards were against. Calling him a slightly better version of Capela cause he’s taller but the truth is he’s just outright better than Capela.

I think Capela is a win/lose situation. He’s not going to destroy any team offensively unless Trae or Murray has something to do with it.

Ayton is worse defensively but the trade off as you mentioned is the offense and I think both trae and Murray would have no problem feeding a big man who can just flat out go get it.

[JTB]

1 hour ago, FL_BRYANT said:

4 pts and 4 shots fall both on Collins and the guards not getting him the ball. But we have seen this kind of production in big games in the past. 4 pts and 4 shots is totally unacceptable. JC has had more than enough time to get stronger.  I have talked  about his inability to establish/hold  low post position for years now.  He constantly gets rooted out the post not only by bigs but also smaller  players.  I didn't want him to get traded but I do expect him to get stronger  and show up against the best talent  in big games. I have constantly  talked about how we lacked both size and physicality. Why the Hawks refuse to add size to  the roster I don't understand .

No JC didn't lose the game but he does have a history of not showing up in big games. 

Honestly go back and watch the game (I just did)…no offense to JC but I can’t really get on Trae or Murray after rewatching this. There weren’t many shots in this game for JC ….if they had tried to force it to Collins there’s a big chance we lose by a lot .

Collins was getting moved off the block with ease and he didn’t even attempt to post up Giannis really which was a smart move (I’m sure that was part of the game plan). 
 

I don’t know the best thing JC can do on a team like this is set screens and pop out to the perimeter. He can’t roll on Giannis, Lopez, or even Bobby Portis a whole game because it would likely end up as a block.

Collins set some good picks in this game though and definitely was giving it his all so you can’t really be mad at it. Games like this we need Hunter to do more offensively since JC has limitations vs this bucks team that is really out of our control until we get bigger and longer.

[JayBirdHawk]

49 minutes ago, marco102 said:

Also, they very well could hate each other, but my observations is they are solid teammates who aren't the best of friends, but respect each other and both want to win together.

 

 

[marco102]

Detroit just beat the Warriors. Those two wins are looking better and better.

[Watchman]

6 minutes ago, marco102 said:

Detroit just beat the Warriors. Those two wins are looking better and better.

Dang!  Who'd a thunk it?