Official Game Thread: Hawks at Knicks

[NBASupes]

This is probably the first Hawk team in decades or ever that has most of the right pieces for the future

Trae - offensive juggernaut when he has room to operate

Griffin - SG of the future

Hunter -SF for now

Okongwu- PF of the future next to the right center

We just lacking an offensive #1 option offensive star center who's elite at the PnR. That's what we are missing. We got three pieces. We can easily get some vet 2s who can PDS. But Griffin has the + defense at the 2 when he gets more polished. 

 

We just lacking one piece. This ain't like the other Hawk teams, I actually think what we are lacking can be had by us.

[benhillboy]

41 minutes ago, JeffS17 said:

Either way, we're debating if the guy is the worst of all time or just bottom 3 in the entire league.  You can't play that bad on defense while shooting 41%, 29% from three.  His offensive impact is still good but it needs to be elite for us to make any noise, which requires him shooting better (especially with the volume of shots he's putting up).

His current season is trending like Ricky Rubio with no steals.  Luckily his FT shooting and assist volume are always consistent.

Edited December 8, 2022 by benhillboy

[JeffS17]

9 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

This is probably the first Hawk team in decades or ever that has most of the right pieces for the future

 

9 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

We just lacking an offensive #1 option offensive star center who's elite at the PnR.

I agree with the first statement, but there's only a few players in the entire league who really fill this role.  You're talking about Embiid, KAT, Jokic, AD.  I don't think any of these guys are available.  Embiid/Jokic are not going anywhere.  AD probably stays put but I wouldn't want to give up assets for him anyways just because of his health.  KAT is the most likely to be available given how things are trending up in Minny. 

On court, and I think the fit would be great if we didn't have to give up too much.  That's always the question though.  His fit next to OO would be very nice on both sides of the court.  If we have to give up Murray though, we once again have on-ball defense issues.  It'd be a roster construction for #1 offense in the league and hope we can be top 15 on defense.

[Diesel]

6 hours ago, BrazilianHawk said:

I've read it all, and I think everything has been said.

This team is poorly assembled. With 3 starters down, it gets painful to watch them. Our bench is ridiculously bad.

@BrazilianHawk  It's this point that shouldn't be ignored....

3 starters down..

k		Age	G	GS	MP	FG	FGA	FG%	3P	3PA	3P%	2P	2PA	2P%	eFG%	FT	FTA	FT%	ORB	DRB	TRB	AST	STL	BLK	TOV	PF	PTS/G ▼
1	Trae Young	24	23	23	35.3	8.8	21.6	.409	2.1	7.2	.289	6.7	14.3	.470	.458	7.5	8.3	.896	0.8	2.2	3.0	9.5	0.7	0.1	3.5	1.3	27.2
2	Dejounte Murray	26	25	25	35.6	8.2	18.2	.452	2.1	5.8	.366	6.1	12.4	.492	.510	2.2	2.7	.836	0.8	4.7	5.4	6.2	1.8	0.4	2.6	1.7	20.8
3	De'Andre Hunter	25	21	21	30.9	5.4	12.0	.447	1.3	3.8	.354	4.0	8.3	.489	.502	2.8	3.5	.808	0.7	3.3	4.0	1.1	0.3	0.1	1.3	3.0	14.9
4	John Collins	25	22	22	31.5	4.7	9.7	.484	0.7	3.3	.219	4.0	6.4	.621	.521	2.2	2.6	.845	1.2	6.3	7.5	1.3	0.9	1.4	1.4	3.2	12.3
5	Clint Capela	28	23	23	27.7	5.3	8.5	.622	0.0	0.0		5.3	8.5	.622	.622	1.0	1.9	.558	4.5	7.7	12.2	0.7	0.6	1.4	1.0	2.4	11.7
6	Bogdan Bogdanović	30	3	0	23.3	3.7	12.7	.289	2.0	8.7	.231	1.7	4.0	.417	.368	1.0	1.0	1.000	0.0	2.3	2.3	1.0	0.7	0.0	1.7	0.3	10.3
7	AJ Griffin	19	21	4	19.8	3.8	8.4	.455	1.6	4.4	.355	2.2	4.0	.566	.548	0.4	0.4	1.000	0.8	1.3	2.0	0.9	1.1	0.0	0.8	1.1	9.6
8	Onyeka Okongwu	22	24	2	20.5	3.2	5.0	.636	0.0	0.1	.000	3.2	4.9	.653	.636	1.4	1.9	.733	2.1	4.0	6.0	1.0	0.5	0.8	0.9	2.9	7.8
9	Justin Holiday	33	19	0	17.2	2.2	5.5	.394	1.3	3.7	.352	0.8	1.7	.485	.514	0.0	0.0		0.1	0.9	0.9	0.9	0.3	0.3	0.6	1.6	5.6
10	Jarrett Culver	23	6	1	18.0	2.0	4.7	.429	0.2	1.5	.111	1.8	3.2	.579	.446	1.0	1.5	.667	1.0	3.7	4.7	0.8	0.8	0.3	0.8	1.8	5.2
11	Jalen Johnson	21	23	3	14.9	2.0	4.1	.484	0.3	1.3	.226	1.7	2.8	.609	.521	0.5	0.7	.688	0.6	2.9	3.4	1.0	0.6	0.3	0.4	1.7	4.8
12	Aaron Holiday	26	22	1	17.7	1.7	4.2	.413	0.7	1.6	.429	1.0	2.6	.404	.495	0.5	0.7	.800	0.5	1.1	1.5	1.5	0.6	0.2	0.9	1.7	4.7
13	Frank Kaminsky	29	11	0	6.1	0.6	1.1	.583	0.3	0.5	.500	0.4	0.5	.667	.708	0.4	0.4	1.000	0.0	1.2	1.2	0.6	0.0	0.0	0.3	0.9	1.9
14	Vit Krejci	22	12	0	6.6	0.6	1.5	.389	0.4	1.2	.357	0.2	0.3	.500	.528	0.1	0.2	.500	0.2	0.5	0.7	0.8	0.1	0.1	0.3	0.7	1.7
15	Trent Forrest	24	8	0	7.8	0.6	1.3	.500	0.0	0.0		0.6	1.3	.500	.500	0.0	0.0		0.3	0.6	0.9	1.1	0.3	0.0	0.3	0.5	1.3
16	Tyrese Martin	23	7	0	3.0	0.4	0.9	.500	0.1	0.4	.333	0.3	0.4	.667	.583	0.0	0.0		0.3	0.3	0.6	0.0	0.1	0.0	0.0	0.1

 

Not just three ordinary starters, our 2nd, 3rd, and 4th best scorers.

We played Aj, Vit, and JJ most of the game... so we replaced a 20.8, 14.9, and 12.3 ppg scorers with a 9.6, 4.8, and1.7 ppg scorers.  Our overall team shooting Sucks!!  And we're three starters down.

 

 

[benhillboy]

@TheNorthCydeRises you gonna snatch up a pair of those “King of Broadway” kicks?

[Gray Mule]

21 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

 

 

We just lacking one piece. This ain't like the other Hawk teams, I actually think what we are lacking can be had by us.

Hornet's G League center:  Mark Williams - 7'+ - Drafted last summer.

This is my answer to a second center, moving 0017 to PF.  

get 'er done!

[NBASupes]

19 minutes ago, Gray Mule said:

Hornet's G League center:  Mark Williams - 7'+ - Drafted last summer.

This is my answer to a second center, moving 0017 to PF.  

get 'er done!

I don't know if that's the offensive star I had in mind or even one of them

[marco102]

15 hours ago, JayBirdHawk said:

@marco102 and I discussed the losing Jent issue a few games ago.

Why'd you bring me here?

I was staying away for peace of mind...lol

[AHF]

2 hours ago, benhillboy said:

They’re putting players up against their team’s ratings from Basketball Reference.  Simons is 3 points below the Blazers, Sexton is 4 points below the Jazz, and Trae is 5 below the Hawks’.  If you don’t care about box, ratings, and 100 possessions there’s nothing to see.

This season is the lowest Trae has been under the Hawks.  Previously -3, -2, -3, and -3.

 

Is there a link to the article?  I'm not sure what their methodology looks like or if it is just "Team DRTG - Individual DRTG."  

FWIW, Using your numbers, Trae has an average gap of -3.2 while Anfernee Simon has an average gap of -4 so literally the first name I check debunked the article if they are averaging that gap by the number of seasons played.  (Trae has one season with a worse gap than a 3 while Simons has three seasons).  Notably Simons has also been the worst (or tied for worst) player on Portland every year (by DRTG), unlike Trae who has had a better DRTG than guys like Tony Snell and Lou Williams and has been tied with guys like DeAndre Hunter and Jeff Teague in past seasons.

1 hour ago, JeffS17 said:

Either way, we're debating if the guy is the worst of all time or just bottom 3 in the entire league. 

I'm not debating either of those things.  I think he obviously isn't the worst defender of all time, and I just glanced at a couple of players to see there were two who were worse than him and stopped looking after that.  I hardly did a definitive deep dive to establish that he was bottom 3 in the league currently let alone bottom 3 in the history of the league which was the original claim.

[JayBirdHawk]

20 minutes ago, marco102 said:

Why'd you bring me here?

I was staying away for peace of mind...lol

[terrell]

1 hour ago, NBASupes said:

This is probably the first Hawk team in decades or ever that has most of the right pieces for the future

Trae - offensive juggernaut when he has room to operate

Griffin - SG of the future

Hunter -SF for now

Okongwu- PF of the future next to the right center

We just lacking an offensive #1 option offensive star center who's elite at the PnR. That's what we are missing. We got three pieces. We can easily get some vet 2s who can PDS. But Griffin has the + defense at the 2 when he gets more polished. 

 

We just lacking one piece. This ain't like the other Hawk teams, I actually think what we are lacking can be had by us.

Yeah I like AJ as a 2 also... But when we Max Murray, he's going to be a backup for years.. So when you say future SG, you mean in 6 years or so?  Or do you think we move on from Murray? Now I can see us moving JC, but Im not sure if OO is the answer..UNLESS like you said we get a offensive minded Center who can spread the floor.. But Trae GM loves CC.. So IDK.. LF has his hands full.................(I say this hoping Schlenk gets the boot, but I know he wont)

Edited December 8, 2022 by terrell

[terrell]

2 hours ago, JeffS17 said:

Either way, we're debating if the guy is the worst of all time or just bottom 3 in the entire league.  You can't play that bad on defense while shooting 41%, 29% from three.  His offensive impact is still good but it needs to be elite for us to make any noise, which requires him shooting better (especially with the volume of shots he's putting up).

 

He's third in the league in FGA per game -- what more do you want?  

I don't understand how his teammates don't get mad at him for his lack of effort on defense. Especially with how much he dominates the ball on offense..What's a word worse than pathetic? That's what his effort on defense was last night. He doesn't even try most of the time. The most physical exertion he gave on that end was moving his shoulder out of the way to funnel the driver to Clint.  Smh

Edited December 8, 2022 by terrell

[Spud2nique]

1 hour ago, marco102 said:

Why'd you bring me here?

I was staying away for peace of mind...lol

It’s like jury duty! Get in here NOW!  

If anyone needs me I’ll be soaking in a bath  

[TheNorthCydeRises]

5 hours ago, JeffS17 said:

Either way, we're debating if the guy is the worst of all time or just bottom 3 in the entire league.  You can't play that bad on defense while shooting 41%, 29% from three.  His offensive impact is still good but it needs to be elite for us to make any noise, which requires him shooting better (especially with the volume of shots he's putting up).

 

He's third in the league in FGA per game -- what more do you want?  

He needs to be at #1.

 

[TheNorthCydeRises]

6 hours ago, benhillboy said:

@TheNorthCydeRises you gonna snatch up a pair of those “King of Broadway” kicks?

Those things are sharp forreal. If I were younger I'd definitely get them.

Not a fan of all of that multi-colored stuff that the kids like.

[AHF]

10 hours ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

He needs to be at #1.

 

You mean he needs to be #1 for the article (still unseen by me) to be accurate?

[NBASupes]

17 hours ago, JeffS17 said:

 

I agree with the first statement, but there's only a few players in the entire league who really fill this role.  You're talking about Embiid, KAT, Jokic, AD.  I don't think any of these guys are available.  Embiid/Jokic are not going anywhere.  AD probably stays put but I wouldn't want to give up assets for him anyways just because of his health.  KAT is the most likely to be available given how things are trending up in Minny. 

On court, and I think the fit would be great if we didn't have to give up too much.  That's always the question though.  His fit next to OO would be very nice on both sides of the court.  If we have to give up Murray though, we once again have on-ball defense issues.  It'd be a roster construction for #1 offense in the league and hope we can be top 15 on defense.

We will always have defensive issues as long as we have Trae to a degree or worse. But if we are going to dominate, we need a lot of spacing, finishing, and shooting with scoring abilities. Defensively, we need size, athletic ability, strength, and length around Young. Young is Hard to build a contender around but we can, we just need the right pieces. 

[NBASupes]

16 hours ago, terrell said:

Yeah I like AJ as a 2 also... But when we Max Murray, he's going to be a backup for years.. So when you say future SG, you mean in 6 years or so?  Or do you think we move on from Murray? Now I can see us moving JC, but Im not sure if OO is the answer..UNLESS like you said we get a offensive minded Center who can spread the floor.. But Trae GM loves CC.. So IDK.. LF has his hands full.................(I say this hoping Schlenk gets the boot, but I know he wont)

I don't believe Murray is gonna be here for long. Just no way to justify him and Trae when Trae just can't play off the ball and Murray is best as a PG, not SG.

[Plainview1981]

2 hours ago, NBASupes said:

I don't believe Murray is gonna be here for long. Just no way to justify him and Trae when Trae just can't play off the ball and Murray is best as a PG, not SG.

I think this all out effort to build a team around Trae is going to fail.

While Trae is obviously better than JT was, you have sort of the same thing where you have a talented player with real limitations, but you're trying to build around a PG who is a poor defender that can't run any sort of elaborate offense.

 

[NBASupes]

1 hour ago, Plainview1981 said:

I think this all out effort to build a team around Trae is going to fail.

While Trae is obviously better than JT was, you have sort of the same thing where you have a talented player with real limitations, but you're trying to build around a PG who is a poor defender that can't run any sort of elaborate offense.

 

It's extremely hard. He's not an optimal player. He's not Steph Curry. He's more Allen Iverson.