The Official NBASupes, Sothron, and theCampster Insider Thread - NBA 2022-23 Season

[AHF]

9 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

It is important to consider, though, how much Atlanta has valued Capela's ideal pick-and-roll partnership as a lob threat for Young, not to mention his rim protection ability when he and the Hawks’ lead guard have to defend the opposition’s same action. 

As a aside, I'll also throw out here that I don't value CC's pick and roll play all that much.  I kind of feel that Trae can make that work with anyone and it actually worked better with JC when he was allowed to play near the basket regularly.  CC's value for me is all on the defensive side of the ball.

[AHF]

4 hours ago, sturt said:

He really was.

But/and, we do have a player in our rotation who is capable of Korver-like production. And one can make the argument that, when we've been exceptional, it's been when he was exceptional... that he is a difference maker.

If you ask me, that's why the FO decided to give him an extension (... which blew my mind at the time, and maybe others, too).

 

When you talk about players on our roster capable of playing like Korver in their careers, this is the one that leaps out to me.

Age 19 was close to 47% / 39% / 90%.  

Rookie Years:

[KB21]

9 minutes ago, AHF said:

As an aside, I'll also throw out here that I don't value CC's pick and roll play all that much.  I kind of feel that Trae can make that work with anyone and it actually worked better with JC when he was allowed to play near the basket regularly.  CC's value for me is all on the defensive side of the ball.

And I think that defensive value is limited because he can’t guard in the perimeter.  

[sturt]

1 hour ago, AHF said:

I can understand potentially the view that we are already on the hamster wheel with a team that hovers around .500 and they are willing to pay the tax for a move they think will get us off the hamster wheel.  Not sure if Quin and Landry feel that way but I am sure some of our posters who are not sky high on this team right now would concur with it.

My post referred to the people in charge, not those of us who are mere onlookers (of course).

But okay, let's talk about onlookers... it's this simple... if we're already on the hamster wheel, then why aren't you all avidly arguing for a new rebuild? We're not going to get better trying to win trades when we have no draft capital or cap space to use that otherwise might add to and be net-positives for the talent inventory. Any trade we make, all things being equal will end in, well, all things being equal... everyone else trading existing talent is acting in their own best interests as much as we are ours, and failing some extraordinary capacity to buy low on stocks that will exponentially grow in value (Jerry West, you wanna a GM job?)... it's hamster wheel city.

 

[terrell]

1 hour ago, sturt said:

 

 

Diesel (... and perhaps others?)... stop reading half my posts and assuming you got it... because, all due respect, you evidently have not  gotten it.

 

First, what I said here today is...

What I said is what I said. What you seemingly read into what I said here is that Landry is  a puppet.

Nahbabanah.

The premise is valid... there are those who perceive the youngest GM in the league is a puppet of the owner, or if not the owner directly, then the owner's son... or at least there was when he was first hired. That's known. That's not theory.

That perception probably has eroded some, if not a lot. And the comment here is simply that, like any of us, Landry wants that perception to be eliminated, hence his sliding in the "it's my decision" assertion into pressers where player acquisition is a topic.

Where's your problem with that? Whatever problem you might have, it's a function of you reading into my thinking something that isn't there.

 

But, if you ask me straight up, then... do I consider Landry Fields a "puppet" nonetheless?

 

A "puppet" in the sense that someone else is telling him what to do? No, no, no. No.

 

A "puppet" in the sense that he's effectively the chairman of the committee? Well, yeah, but that's not a puppet, then.

 

Look. I don't make the rules, but I know what they are and don't pretend they don't exist... and similarly, I don't put words in Tony Ressler's mouth, but I know what they've been, and don't pretend that they don't exist.

 

Tony Ressler made clear to Jeff Schultz that Schlenk wasn't being adequately democratic in decision-making to the owner's satisfaction. But I'm the fool for believing that what's good for the goose is good for the gander? What changed? Hell, yes. I mean, really, educate me.... how does it make any sense to believe Landry isn't being expected to be what his predecessor was not?

 

(Then, there's a whole other part to the conversation that I'm not going to wade into, but there's basis for concluding the owner likes it this way because it allows him to seem to be giving power to his basketball ops people, but in reality, he gets to impose influence on the bigger, more divisive decisions, quietly behind closed doors. As Schlenk became more seasoned, and had more legitimate gravity for decisions, it made it problematic for Ressler to impose influence without it coming to light.)

 

I don't pretend to know what I can't know. But I will suggest that Landry's not made any major decision purely on his own. That is antithetical to why his predecessor was let go, as well as antithetical to how Landry himself has described the process in the lead-up to any major decision thus far. Consistent with that, we have his words in his pre-draft presser, where he makes clear that him, Kyle and Quin have been having active conversations about how the talents of current players might be enhanced through different strategies... he said he appreciates seeing things through the lens of the coach.

 

Where you and others got hostile toward me, as I recall, was my insistence that your celebrating what a great GM Landry already is was not unlike celebrating you for knowing your multiplication tables.

 

There are decisions that maybe not completely, but almost, make themselves. Trading 5 2nd rounders for a real vet asset who could plausibly fill a real need for the team this past season was one of those. Not one of us, to my knowledge, ever whined about that deal, but rather, practically all of us thought it was a slam dunk deal for the good guys.

 

If you celebrate me for knowing my multiplication tables... that's actually a little disrespectful, as-if that's some great achievement. It would be if I were 7 or 8. But I'm not 7 or 8. I'm an adult.

Celebrate my achievements that actually are admirable. Be patient. Wait. Eventually, I might achieve something that deserves celebration. Don't be so anxious to celebrate me that, instead, you're insinuating that you have low expectations of me.

Landry, same.

 

I'll finish with this point... it's one always avoided it seems, but I've consistently said from early on that I'm inclined to believe a Stanford guy probably is smarter than me and most... so I've believed that, long-term, Landry could turn out to be one of the best GMs we've had.

I'm further convinced of that, having watched this video..

 

[ShooterSays]

1 hour ago, JayBirdHawk said:

Collins and the No. 15 pick in the draft with the Mavericks for the No. 10 pick and Dāvis Bertāns. Those talks did not develop very far, sources said, and Dallas indicated it would be more willing to consider that deal if Hawks center Clint Capela was the returning player from Atlanta.

Trading Cap to move up 5 spots feels…steep. 

[sturt]

18 minutes ago, terrell said:

 

 

[kg01]

26 minutes ago, terrell said:

We were all thinking it but knew the inevitable response would be twss.  Good on you for having that courage, trrrrl. 

[sturt]

*sigh*

What Fischer said:

 

 

What Hoops Rumors said Fischer said:

 

"Surely intends" is what you write when you're offering the conclusion you think "surely" makes sense.

"Are expected" is what you write when you're relaying intel from someone who should have some actual first-hand insight.

 

I don't care. It's not that hard to be precise with your words. Lazy interpretation is the essence of silly season.

 

 

 

 

Wanna know another essence of silly season? Here ya go...

 

 

 

So, in the space of three days, depending on who you're relying on for your info, the Warriors are trading up. No, they're staying at 19. No, they're trading back... or trading out entirely.

*sigh*

[GameTime]

2 hours ago, JayBirdHawk said:

 

 

In Atlanta, the Hawks will continue to explore trade scenarios for Collins. That has so far included preliminary talks with Dallas about swapping Collins and the No. 15 pick in the draft with the Mavericks for the No. 10 pick and Dāvis Bertāns. Those talks did not develop very far, sources said, and Dallas indicated it would be more willing to consider that deal if Hawks center Clint Capela was the returning player from Atlanta.

Maybe the Hawks end up trading down from No. 15 — as opposed to the aforementioned scenario with Dallas — in order to move Collins. The Hawks have told opposing teams Atlanta is open to conversations about all of its roster outside of Trae Young, league sources told Yahoo Sports. That does not mean the Hawks are actively shopping Dejounte Murray, whom the franchise sent three first-round picks to acquire from San Antonio last offseason, because Murray, in that respect, would cost quite a lot for Atlanta to part with. The Hawks are valuing their players in some form of tier structure, sources said, where Murray stands in his own realm after Young. Murray will be an interesting early example to see if he considers signing an extension this offseason under the more lucrative structure available in this new CBA, which will now allow Murray to receive a first-year salary that’s 140% of his $17.7 million earnings for the 2023-24 campaign, and with a richer bonus structure, a total agreement that could approach $120 million over four years.

The most inbound trade calls Atlanta has gotten, dating back to the trade deadline, have been focused on young center Onyeka Okongwu, sources said. Okongwu becomes extension eligible this summer after a decent emergence in Year 3. The same goes for Saddiq Bey, whom Atlanta sacrificed five second-round picks to acquire at the deadline and surely intends to retain long term. That has led opposing front offices to pinpoint Capela and De’Andre Hunter as logical trade candidates for the Hawks in addition to Collins. It is important to consider, though, how much Atlanta has valued Capela's ideal pick-and-roll partnership as a lob threat for Young, not to mention his rim protection ability when he and the Hawks’ lead guard have to defend the opposition’s same action. Plus, Atlanta values Hunter’s two-way ability in a league that’s still placing heavy premium on wings.

One player believed to be on the Hawks’ radar of potential trade targets is Raptors forward Pascal Siakam, sources said, and Toronto marks another team front offices are closely monitoring for trade activity. 

 

This pretty much sums up @thecampster early post regarding #15 and frontcourt players.

I'm curious to see a Young-Murray-Siakam squad if possible.

 

 

[sturt]

11 minutes ago, kg01 said:

We were all thinking it but knew the inevitable response would be twss.  Good on you for having that courage, trrrrl. 

 

I'm not responsible for ADD around here, just as no one else is responsible for having to read any other person's (mine or otherwise) posts. It's all good.

Here's the thing. If you're gonna make some accusation about someone's take... as the poster did previous to my response... just have the decency to actually understand that person's take.

It's the respectful thing to do. Otherwise, you're just mouthing off for no informed (literally) reason. If you want me to care what you think, then it goes both ways. Disagreement is fine. Sometimes, it's even great. Spirited discussions, within the bounds of some degree of respect and civility are the backbone of our board. Can't respect posts that appear to be hit-and-run jobs, disinterested in a respectful dialogue.

[terrell]

17 minutes ago, GameTime said:

I'm curious to see a Young-Murray-Siakam squad if possible.

 

 

That's ALOT of dribbling man.. lol

[theheroatl]

28 minutes ago, GameTime said:

I'm curious to see a Young-Murray-Siakam squad if possible.

 

 

Same, I think the slashing would be intense. We already have the highest drives to the basket. I’ve always been a huge fan of Siakam.

Edited June 17, 2023 by theheroatl

[TheNorthCydeRises]

1 hour ago, AHF said:

When you talk about players on our roster capable of playing like Korver in their careers, this is the one that leaps out to me.

Age 19 was close to 47% / 39% / 90%.  

Rookie Years:

 

With much better off the dribble shot creation, in the case of AJ.

 

 

[Final_quest]

Is there anyone who believes we will run it back?  

[Diesel]

4 hours ago, sturt said:

First, what I said here today is...

6 hours ago, sturt said:

I get the reason he would want to tamp down the perception that he's a puppet... none of us would ever like that perception being out there.

What I said is what I said. What you seemingly read into what I said here is that Landry is  a puppet.

What you said, suggest that somebody believes that he's a puppet and that Landry has to Do something to "tamp down the perception".  The problem is that you're the only person suggesting that he's a puppet.

So.. Since what you said is what you said... did I half read it?

 

[Sothron]

Talked to one source today. It seems the commitment Tony Ressler made to paying the LT next season is wavering. 

Pelicans contacted us about Zion. Nets contacted us about Ben Simmons. Hawks have told teams every player on the team BUT Trae Young is available for the right price. 

Lots of offers for Jalen Johnson, OO and AJ. Capela is getting a ton of interest. Collins is getting interest because the feeling around the league is he's been grossly misused since his 21/11 season and another team could be a better fit.

[theheroatl]

6 minutes ago, Sothron said:

Talked to one source today. It seems the commitment Tony Ressler made to paying the LT next season is wavering. 

Pelicans contacted us about Zion. Nets contacted us about Ben Simmons. Hawks have told teams every player on the team BUT Trae Young is available for the right price. 

Lots of offers for Jalen Johnson, OO and AJ. Capela is getting a ton of interest. Collins is getting interest because the feeling around the league is he's been grossly misused since his 21/11 season and another team could be a better fit.

Good good… let them feast on Capela Collins and Dre….. lfg

 

id be wavering on luxury tax for this team as well. Time to get Siakam or similar and dump the dead weight.

Edited June 17, 2023 by theheroatl

[sturt]

31 minutes ago, Final_quest said:

Is there anyone who believes we will run it back?  

I don't. All signs point to Jason being correct. Said as much in a recent post. Search on "hamster wheel" and author:sturt.

 

Now, having said that, who is Mark Schindler, and why should I care what he thinks... as Brad evidently thinks I should. I watched about 3 minutes of the YT video, but quickly became persuaded that, if anything, Schindler should be interviewing Brad for his insight into Hawkdom.

 

Could it be the podcast craze has spread too thin what it takes to be considered an "expert?" Dunno. But seems a worthy theory for someone looking for a dissertation to write.

[sturt]

26 minutes ago, Diesel said:

What you said, suggest that somebody believes that he's a puppet and that Landry has to Do something to "tamp down the perception".  The problem is that you're the only person suggesting that he's a puppet.

So.. Since what you said is what you said... did I half read it?

 

Nonsense. Absolute horse pucky. Really, Diesel?

 

1. Heard of Nicky Ressler, Mr. Selective Memory?

Throngs of people here and everywhere were theorizing that Nicky was the man actually in control of decision-making in the front office. In other words, throngs of people had the perception that Landry was a puppet. Do some still? I dunno, but the fact that Landry still felt compelled even now to insert into a presser that the decision ultimately will be his (ie, who to draft) at least makes it a reasonable assumption that Landry had the perception that some have the perception.

 

2. I did say what I said. I won't be held accountable for you not having a grasp of what I said just b/c of some form of ADD on your part.

And I distinctly, irrefutably made clear that I don't consider Landry a puppet. I said that. Plainly. And then I said what I do consider him instead, and then backed that up with supporting intel that also is irrefutable--as published by The Athletic, as told to Jeff Schultz.

 

Disrespectful to play games like this, it really is. Take issue with what another person says, by all means. But don't contort what was said. Shouldn't need to, if you're authentically making a legitimate point.