Saddiq Bey to Atlanta, Finally!!!

[kg01]

1 hour ago, Spud2nique said:

Sure, I was just saying I’d pick Bey over Hunter if I had to choose but like you say, why not both.

But would you pick Curry over Paula Pierce as your avatar?

[theheroatl]

4 hours ago, Diesel said:

Just listened to a Detroit Piston Insider Podcast.. and they are crying all over the place about losing Bey. 

Looking at it now, we got the better part of the deal. 

Detroit's GM is in Love with Wiseman and saw a chance to get him. 

GS didn't want more salary.  Maybe they are eyeing to resign Draymond. 

Bey was a casualty of War.

INTERESTING NOTE....

We know about the failed Phoenix trade... and JC.

Detroit insiders say that they turned down a trade for JC to Detroit because we wouldn't add a first.  I'm trying to think.. what could it have been??

My guess is that it was JC for Bey/BagleyIII

Back to the conversation...

So, we got Bey.  He was a fan favorite.  A lockerroom favorite.   A high motor.. with inconsistent play but lots of potential.

Right now, I'm seeing Bey as being the replacement for Hunter. 

Once Hunter's contract goes Public.. we just might move him.  We hear talk of bringing in KAT.  Well, JC and Hunter may get us a KAT?  

Let's wait and see.

 

 

I think Capela, Bogi, JC, and Hunter got to be moved this summer. We got Onyeka and AJ that IMO are better starters.

AJ has that it factor and could be a CJ McCollum for us. Capela had a good rebound season so far so his value is high. Dre is Dre… out of all maybe he ends up staying on his relatively friendly deal.

 

Edited February 10, 2023 by theheroatl

[Diesel]

3 hours ago, sturt said:

Sounds like a (welcome) departure from your "emergency" theory in the other thread, but maybe I'm reading too much into that.

I agree (again) with you that Bey's role is likely to be considered Hunter's primary back-up, with some potential in a worst-case scenario where Hunter ultimately disappoints, to actually overtake him as a starter.

The Emergence/Emergency theory is all about Nate.   

Bey could emerge from the bench this season based on his play in practice and his play in spot duty when Nate gives him a chance.   However, That's a Nate thing.   I think as we move forward, Nate's plan is not the same as the FO plans.   Bey for all practical purposes is competing with Hunter whether he plays a lot or not this season.   Simply by being the same body type/Play type and having a cheaper contract, Hunter need to realize that Bey puts him on the Blocks next year because Bey is one of the few players that can replace him. 

I don't get the feeling that Bey is Knox. 

Knox was never the 3 and D guy that teams needed him to be.   However, I think that Bey and one of those Martin twins are it. 

Teams want you big enough to play the 3/4 but skilled enough to hit the three and be a great defender. 

[NBASupes]

I am high key still surprised they traded Bey. He's a quality player who can defend big wings. Teams aren't letting those guys hit the market at all. 

[Diesel]

2 hours ago, JayBirdHawk said:

Love that we got Bey, but can we please pump the brakes on him being a replacement for 'anybody'. This team lacks solid NBA depth that can contribute nightly. He's got 26 games for us to determine where and how he fits. 

Hopefully, his acquisition pushes Hunter to be more consistent.

 

Two things can be true. 

I think this summer, we were forced to give Hunter an extension.   Forced because I believe:

• We like his talent.
• We like his upside.
• We like his size.
• We hated his inconsistency.
• We hated his injury proneness. 

I joked about it but I think we may have put stipulations in his contract about games played. (Maybe not, I can't see the NBAPU going for that). 

However, what nobody could stop is us finding somebody who we could replace Hunter with.  Bey is one of those players.  The thing about Bey that @Spud2nique mentioned is that Bey has a real physicality to him.   Not a faux one.  He'll be a better fit with Murray's attitude than Hunter is. 

However, right now... under Nate.. we have both. So Bey improves our depth.   Moreover, Until he grows some more,  Young Kobe (AJ) to me is a SG primarily.   

But don't miss that we have been trying to find this guy to replace Hunter...

Cam - was drafted with Hunter 

Knox - was also a Big wing... Just not skilled enough. 

JHoli - was sold to us as that guy...   Age slowed him down.

Now Bey.  Bey has everything working for him to be the guy who takes the Dre' Chokehold off of us. 

 

[h4wkfan]

I am overly optimistic about this addition. I think he will be a fantastic fit and I fully expect a sizable increase in his efficiency IF he buys into his role.

 

He took on a larger role than what his skillset is built for in Detroit out of need. I'd expect his USG comes down a point or 2 in ATL. Even at that - the team was better with him in that role - poor efficiency and all. The Pistons were -8.2 with him off the court. With him on? -8.2 .... BUT look at his splits when he plays SF vs PF. -5.9 @ SF and -8.8 @ PF. The team was 2.3 points better with him in that role. He should come in as the primary back-up SF with emergency PF capabilities. 

 

The role he should be in Atlanta? Catch & shoot specialist with limited playmaking upside. If someone closes out on him over aggressively? Straight line drive - I'm good with that. Otherwise ... catch it and let it fly. BUT HE IS A 34.5% SHOOTER - WHY WOULD WE WANT THAT?! He's 37.2% on catch & shoot ... and a 43.2% 3P shooter from the corners this year. That should be his home - particularly with Trae on the court. He'll get far more good looks. I fully expect his time in ATL to be a 38%+ shooter on 5+ attempts / game.

 

His defense has not lived up to expectations coming out of the draft. But I would not be surprised see that also improve with him actually playing for something + playing with a more competent overall defense. The Pistons defense is absolutely trash. 

 

If you actually look at his impact stats (with him playing above what I believe to be his most suited role) he's a more impactful & efficient player than Dre. However - Dre brings better defense - and when it comes to the starting 5 - we need that more. So I don't see him as a replacement in the least. Just a fantastic complement to the team. He should be one of the first guys off the bench, but he will need to adjust his role now that he is on a team that is competing for something.

[sturt]

5 minutes ago, h4wkfan said:

Catch & shoot

Reminds me to say, dang, he has a quick release. Don't he?

[sturt]

7 minutes ago, h4wkfan said:

The Pistons defense is absolutely trash. 

It really is.

To the point that, his 120 DRTG is actually about 1 point below the team DRTG... compare that to BogBog whose DRTG is 117 is about 3 points below our team DRTG.

[sturt]

42 minutes ago, Diesel said:

I don't get the feeling that Bey is Knox. 

I gasped... just seeing those two names in the same sentence even.

Bey's body frame reminds me of Solomon Hill's, but the best performance comparable that comes to mind is Wilson Chandler... with the caveat that Chandler had the superior defensive chops, where Bey has the superior offensive chops. He's at least in that mold, and it won't surprise to see him get a similar regard as his career progresses.

[NBASupes]

25 minutes ago, h4wkfan said:

I am overly optimistic about this addition. I think he will be a fantastic fit and I fully expect a sizable increase in his efficiency IF he buys into his role.

 

He took on a larger role than what his skillset is built for in Detroit out of need. I'd expect his USG comes down a point or 2 in ATL. Even at that - the team was better with him in that role - poor efficiency and all. The Pistons were -8.2 with him off the court. With him on? -8.2 .... BUT look at his splits when he plays SF vs PF. -5.9 @ SF and -8.8 @ PF. The team was 2.3 points better with him in that role. He should come in as the primary back-up SF with emergency PF capabilities. 

 

The role he should be in Atlanta? Catch & shoot specialist with limited playmaking upside. If someone closes out on him over aggressively? Straight line drive - I'm good with that. Otherwise ... catch it and let it fly. BUT HE IS A 34.5% SHOOTER - WHY WOULD WE WANT THAT?! He's 37.2% on catch & shoot ... and a 43.2% 3P shooter from the corners this year. That should be his home - particularly with Trae on the court. He'll get far more good looks. I fully expect his time in ATL to be a 38%+ shooter on 5+ attempts / game.

 

His defense has not lived up to expectations coming out of the draft. But I would not be surprised see that also improve with him actually playing for something + playing with a more competent overall defense. The Pistons defense is absolutely trash. 

 

If you actually look at his impact stats (with him playing above what I believe to be his most suited role) he's a more impactful & efficient player than Dre. However - Dre brings better defense - and when it comes to the starting 5 - we need that more. So I don't see him as a replacement in the least. Just a fantastic complement to the team. He should be one of the first guys off the bench, but he will need to adjust his role now that he is on a team that is competing for something.

You bolded the worst part of your post bro. 

[h4wkfan]

2 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

You bolded the worst part of your post bro. 

I think I know what part you are talking about. And I didn't think it was right. it's arguably close, and I could potentially be swayed 1 way or the other -  but #s are #s ... 

 

His efficiency really should pick-up if he focuses in on the role that fits his skillset best. But despite the below ... he's not a Hunter replacement to me. Hunter is far too important for what his strengths are. But the 2 big wing combo of Bey / Hunter is an intriguing pairing.

 

	Season (Age)	G	Per 100 - Ortg	Per 100 - Drtg	PER	WS/48	VORP	Net Rtg	Raptor - Off	Raptor - Def	WAR
Dre	3rd (24)	53	106	117	10.6	0.034	-0.8	-1.6	-1.9	-0.2	0.5
Bey	3rd (23)	52	115	120	14.5	0.072	0.5	-0.1	1	-2.2	1.2
Dre	4th (25)	45	112	118	11.8	0.063	-0.4	3	-1.3	0.7	1.6

[Diesel]

32 minutes ago, h4wkfan said:

I am overly optimistic about this addition. I think he will be a fantastic fit and I fully expect a sizable increase in his efficiency IF he buys into his role.

 

He took on a larger role than what his skillset is built for in Detroit out of need. I'd expect his USG comes down a point or 2 in ATL. Even at that - the team was better with him in that role - poor efficiency and all. The Pistons were -8.2 with him off the court. With him on? -8.2 .... BUT look at his splits when he plays SF vs PF. -5.9 @ SF and -8.8 @ PF. The team was 2.3 points better with him in that role. He should come in as the primary back-up SF with emergency PF capabilities. 

 

The role he should be in Atlanta? Catch & shoot specialist with limited playmaking upside. If someone closes out on him over aggressively? Straight line drive - I'm good with that. Otherwise ... catch it and let it fly. BUT HE IS A 34.5% SHOOTER - WHY WOULD WE WANT THAT?! He's 37.2% on catch & shoot ... and a 43.2% 3P shooter from the corners this year. That should be his home - particularly with Trae on the court. He'll get far more good looks. I fully expect his time in ATL to be a 38%+ shooter on 5+ attempts / game.

 

His defense has not lived up to expectations coming out of the draft. But I would not be surprised see that also improve with him actually playing for something + playing with a more competent overall defense. The Pistons defense is absolutely trash. 

 

If you actually look at his impact stats (with him playing above what I believe to be his most suited role) he's a more impactful & efficient player than Dre. However - Dre brings better defense - and when it comes to the starting 5 - we need that more. So I don't see him as a replacement in the least. Just a fantastic complement to the team. He should be one of the first guys off the bench, but he will need to adjust his role now that he is on a team that is competing for something.

So Good to have Landry hanging out with us today!  jk...

[Diesel]

15 minutes ago, sturt said:

I gasped... just seeing those two names in the same sentence even.

Bey's body frame reminds me of Solomon Hill's, but the best performance comparable that comes to mind is Wilson Chandler... with the caveat that Chandler had the superior defensive chops, where Bey has the superior offensive chops. He's at least in that mold, and it won't surprise to see him get a similar regard as his career progresses.

Stop Gasping on Knox.  Knox.. by Build... is a great Body type for this NBA.  His problems come with Muscle Memory.  He does something good and then his body just forgets what the hell it just did. 

He's missing that Spark.   That he's the guy spark.   I bet he's a practice wizard.  But AI had a point talking about practice.  Quoted from one of the greats, this is what Iverson said "Not a game. Not the game that I go out there and die for and play every game like it's my last. "  This is what Knox is missing.   His elevator doesn't even have that floor listed.   It's a shame because when you see 6'7 215 with a 6'11" wingspan...and good feetwork.. you have to think.. Damn. this guy is it.  But then he plays and he shows you fundamentals but not "it". 

back on Topic.

I think Bey can give you defensive and offensive chops.  He just has to have an understanding of his role.  On our team, being a part of a defensive set (him, CC, and DJ.... and not having to carry the offense.).. he's going to thrive. 

 

 

[NBASupes]

11 minutes ago, h4wkfan said:

I think I know what part you are talking about. And I didn't think it was right. it's arguably close, and I could potentially be swayed 1 way or the other -  but #s are #s ... 

 

His efficiency really should pick-up if he focuses in on the role that fits his skillset best. But despite the below ... he's not a Hunter replacement to me. Hunter is far too important for what his strengths are. But the 2 big wing combo of Bey / Hunter is an intriguing pairing.

 

	Season (Age)	G	Per 100 - Ortg	Per 100 - Drtg	PER	WS/48	VORP	Net Rtg	Raptor - Off	Raptor - Def	WAR
Dre	3rd (24)	53	106	117	10.6	0.034	-0.8	-1.6	-1.9	-0.2	0.5
Bey	3rd (23)	52	115	120	14.5	0.072	0.5	-0.1	1	-2.2	1.2
Dre	4th (25)	45	112	118	11.8	0.063	-0.4	3	-1.3	0.7	1.6

Bro, no simply no. These numbers don't even say anything. Ya'll tend to go way too far and end up looking real bad doing it too 

[NBASupes]

4 minutes ago, Diesel said:

Stop Gasping on Knox.  Knox.. by Build... is a great Body type for this NBA.  His problems come with Muscle Memory.  He does something good and then his body just forgets what the hell it just did. 

He's missing that Spark.   That he's the guy spark.   I bet he's a practice wizard.  But AI had a point talking about practice.  Quoted from one of the greats, this is what Iverson said "Not a game. Not the game that I go out there and die for and play every game like it's my last. "  This is what Knox is missing.   His elevator doesn't even have that floor listed.   It's a shame because when you see 6'7 215 with a 6'11" wingspan...and good feetwork.. you have to think.. Damn. this guy is it.  But then he plays and he shows you fundamentals but not "it". 

back on Topic.

I think Bey can give you defensive and offensive chops.  He just has to have an understanding of his role.  On our team, being a part of a defensive set (him, CC, and DJ.... and not having to carry the offense.).. he's going to thrive. 

 

 

More like he had no feel for the game like I told you. He just doesn't know how to play team basketball. Knox is talented. Just talent ain't enough 

[NBASupes]

I actually like this post from a Pistons diehard on Bey. I agree with it. Most of us who watch a lot of ball do

 

 

[h4wkfan]

21 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

Bro, no simply no. These numbers don't even say anything. Ya'll tend to go way too far and end up looking real bad doing it too 

It's closer than you want to believe. If you replaced Bey with Hunter on the Pistons team. How many more wins do they have? It's pretty dang close to 0 (maybe less since Bey played in +7 games).

I also said Dre is the starter. Bey is not going to replace him ... period. But the again. #s are #s. There are some ways that Dre is more efficient (higher TS% + TS Add among them), but there are many stats that point to Bey have a larger impact to winning. I think the right role will really amplify this for Bey, but if you put him in the starting line-up with different expectation - it would hurt him as that's not his best fit.

I completely agree with the analysis you shared from Reddit. Lines up pretty much with my exact belief. He could be huge boost to the offense if he plays within his role. Didn't know that he was the solo-type guy, but that doesn't concern me.

[NBASupes]

27 minutes ago, h4wkfan said:

It's closer than you want to believe. If you replaced Bey with Hunter on the Pistons team. How many more wins do they have? It's pretty dang close to 0 (maybe less since Bey played in +7 games).

I also said Dre is the starter. Bey is not going to replace him ... period. But the again. #s are #s. There are some ways that Dre is more efficient (higher TS% + TS Add among them), but there are many stats that point to Bey have a larger impact to winning. I think the right role will really amplify this for Bey, but if you put him in the starting line-up with different expectation - it would hurt him as that's not his best fit.

I completely agree with the analysis you shared from Reddit. Lines up pretty much with my exact belief. He could be huge boost to the offense if he plays within his role. Didn't know that he was the solo-type guy, but that doesn't concern me.

Bro, it's not. That's the problem with this new generation of fans. Where you guys don't watch a guy. Then when your team gets a player, you just stat watch and make an awful assessment. 

The issue isn't you posting stats. It's not having a clue of what you are talking about. To even sit here and debate this is a pointless topic. One you would clearly see once he's a member of the Hawks or maybe you won't. Hate is a major blinder within fanbases and while I am not saying you hate anyone, I am saying hate is a blinder in general.

This seems like it happens everytime we get someone new. Overhyped comes, expectations become massive and delusion appears. We did this with Culver and Favors.

[sturt]

A bit harsh.

It is true that if you do social science research for a living, your best starting point with any research question is to embed yourself enough to eyeball whatever it is you're studying, so that when you go to do quantitative research, you'll be sensitive to things that don't quite seem right, and better able to detect where there might be, for instance, some survey question that was worded in a way that led responses in a certain direction.

But you can also do it the other way around.... get familiar with numbers and what research has generally yielded already, and then do some qualitative work, like focus groups, to see if you can flesh out what things might lurk behind those numbers.

It's not one or the other, though. It's both.

And by definition, the more objective of the two is the numbers, as long as you have a good grasp of where the numbers came from and what they actually were calculated from (which can be nuanced from what the labels suggest). The more subjective is one's own interpretation of what s/he's seeing, and on that, you can best increase the validity of conclusions by looking at multiple interpretations... one interpretation is hardly meaningful in the big picture, unless it's coming from a highly authoritative source.

Fwiw.

[swanlee]

Well looks like the new GM is at least trying to make sensible moves to address our needs. We got 3 players that are better then The 2 players leaving and cost us less.

These moves sgow strategy and homework being done