Nate McMillan Fired

[kg01]

2 minutes ago, macdaddy said:

It's hard to take someone seriously who is just guessing and can't even spell 'too' correctly. (referring to Eddie Johnson)

Thank you.

People gotta do their homework.  Eddie is on nbaradio as a host everyday.  He's been a champion of Nate ever since he got the job because they're friends.  He spoke glowingly about how Trae allowed himself to becoached.by Nate.  Glowingly.  Now that things didnt work out for his friend, things have turned.

Seeing this latest tweet should surprise no one.  And it's not necessarily some glimpse into "how former players see trae". 

[Sothron]

1 hour ago, Wretch said:

I would have more confidence in this leadership/ownership group if we had let Nate go earlier in the season.  The safe play is "wait and see."  That's the same attitude that goes into sitting on talent waiting for it to blossom.  There's certainly a risk of jumping the gun, but there is also the risk of waiting too long.  In the case of waiting on talent, you lose value exponentially.  In this case, we have half a season to find a coach, get him in, and let his system gel. 

It wasn't difficult to see the limits Nate put on this team after the league made adjustments to our midrange game.  The move was long overdue.

Here's something that bolsters your argument: the AS break is not at the halfway point in the season. We only have 23 games left in the season. Basically 1/4 of the schedule is left. When Nate talked about resigning in mid Dec we should have let him instead the FO talked him into staying on. Then Tony fired him yesterday. But if we had made the move then and gotten an outside hire in we would have had a solid month of the new coach already.

[macdaddy]

1 minute ago, Sothron said:

Here's something that bolsters your argument: the AS break is not at the halfway point in the season. We only have 23 games left in the season. Basically 1/4 of the schedule is left. When Nate talked about resigning in mid Dec we should have let him instead the FO talked him into staying on. Then Tony fired him yesterday. But if we had made the move then and gotten an outside hire in we would have had a solid month of the new coach already.

Yes!   That's why it's so surprising and dumb.   Just speaks to an org in disarray to me.   Way too many cooks in the kitchen.  

[Sothron]

Just now, macdaddy said:

Yes!   That's why it's so surprising and dumb.   Just speaks to an org in disarray to me.   Way too many cooks in the kitchen.  

I can't disagree with any of this. I hate meddling owners. They simply do not have the experience to interfering with a sports franchise. They should hire basketball people (for the NBA) and let them do their jobs. Ressler did this at first with Travis but after the ECF run he really started being more active. 

[Atlantaholic]

Yes, 100%. Makes zero sense to wait until now to fire Nate if the intent was to move on, especially if the plan was just to have an assistant take over as interim. 

[shakes]

https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/hawks-star-trae-young-needs-to-alter-his-game-following-nate-mcmillans-firing-or-he-could-be-next-to-go/

 

Great article about how Trae needs to change the way he plays.  Something that became obvious after the Miami series.  Something we were all confident he would come back this season and be doing it non stop.  Yet it turns out we were all wrong an Trae has continued to refuse to imrpove his off ball game.

 

The Hawks want this to work with Young. Firing McMillan is their first step in trying to make that happen. If Young doesn't change, however, and the next coach produces the same disappointing results, what then? Will Young ever buy into a role that asks him not just to concede some control (which he has proven willing to do with Murray), but actually to do something other than spatially spectate in these moments? 

It takes real commitment to put the energy in to move, consistently and at full speed, off the ball without a guarantee that you'll get it back. At most, what Young does is fan out and wait for either a kick-out pass or his chance to run back toward the ball for a dribble handoff. 

Does Young possess the kind of humility required to run away from the ball, if only for the purpose of taking defenders with him? That kind of genuine interest in winning on someone else's terms is a rare trait in such exceedingly talented players who have every right to believe they are always the best option. It's hard for a player like Young to see, especially when the Hawks were the second-best offense in the league just a year ago.

[thecampster]

Take this with a grain of salt.

 

Earlier in the year I mentioned open conflict within the coaching staff as it pertained to young players, especially Jalen Johnson. After his very stat heavy year at College Park, the assistant coaches, other players expected heavy minutes from Jalen.  

Nate's reliance on smaller lineups and not giving Jalen Gallo type minutes irked some, especially those who worked most closely with JJ.

You can hear in the pressers how they are repeating "someone who connects with the players" (John, Trae, Jalen, etc) and "someone good at developing talent".

One of things not yet said is a jealousy the team feels over other orgs developing young players while we play old school and let them rot on the bench. This is one of the things Ressler openly questioned (why don't our young guys play like X,Y,Z).

What I'm hearing is that this has been simmering privately for 3 weeks+ and the coaches were basically in pro-Nate vs pro-young guns camp and that the decision to start Saddiq Bey was effectively a big "FU" to the assistants  propping up JJ.  So too was the near DNP for JJ in his last game.  There was some serious discontent in the Hawks locker room and it wasn't between Trae and Nate, but between Nate and 3 members of his staff.

A second point of contention was ball distribution and untimely substitution (something many members of this board have noticed).  Nate's over-reliance on iso sets created two problems  1) DJ is not as good as Trae in the PnR game and is more of a chaos movement player.  2) Other teams learned from the Heat in last year's playoffs and were determined to trap Trae and get the ball out of his hands. On good authority, one of the more experienced coaches suggested off ball curl screens (opposing top of the key from the ball handler) and switch pin downs as ways to loosen up defenses and Nate insisted their guys "figure out how to beat this coverage and not to rely on gimmicks".  As the season progressed, DJ's turnovers increased as he was forced to run sets that are not in his normal bag.  Without clear outs or off ball motion, DJ was attacked very similarly to Trae.  

The rumored Trae argued with Nate at practice that seemed to get covered up was actually Trae making the mistake of agreeing with a coach who openly disagreed with Nate.

The critique of Nate from the x's and o's coaches was his over reliance on 1v1 matchups on both offense and defense and insistence on players scrambling off blown coverages.  Additionally, Nate's historical tendency and reputation as a hot head led to not only him not engaging officials and fighting openly for his players but limiting his assistants from barking at the refs as well.  The players felt often as if they were playing against the refs which showed in their on court whining.  Nate tried to limit this as well, limit trash talking. It was summed up to me as "he was taking the emotion out of basketball".

 

The delay in firing Nate was due to the team having a cooling off period and to evaluate their options. When after a few days they saw no way forward, the decision was made to let Nate go now.

Edited February 22, 2023 by thecampster

[terrell]

Trae's dad is responding just like I thought he would... 

 

Edited February 22, 2023 by terrell

[macdaddy]

8 minutes ago, shakes said:

https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/hawks-star-trae-young-needs-to-alter-his-game-following-nate-mcmillans-firing-or-he-could-be-next-to-go/

 

Great article about how Trae needs to change the way he plays.  Something that became obvious after the Miami series.  Something we were all confident he would come back this season and be doing it non stop.  Yet it turns out we were all wrong an Trae has continued to refuse to imrpove his off ball game.

 

The Hawks want this to work with Young. Firing McMillan is their first step in trying to make that happen. If Young doesn't change, however, and the next coach produces the same disappointing results, what then? Will Young ever buy into a role that asks him not just to concede some control (which he has proven willing to do with Murray), but actually to do something other than spatially spectate in these moments? 

It takes real commitment to put the energy in to move, consistently and at full speed, off the ball without a guarantee that you'll get it back. At most, what Young does is fan out and wait for either a kick-out pass or his chance to run back toward the ball for a dribble handoff. 

Does Young possess the kind of humility required to run away from the ball, if only for the purpose of taking defenders with him? That kind of genuine interest in winning on someone else's terms is a rare trait in such exceedingly talented players who have every right to believe they are always the best option. It's hard for a player like Young to see, especially when the Hawks were the second-best offense in the league just a year ago.

I'm not buying this.   This is a system issue.   No one on the team moves without the ball.  They are all just running the plays that they are given.  Hopefully this changes.

But also i'd make the case that having Trae trying to be Reggie Miller is a terrible waste of time.  The one thing we know that he is elite at is playmaking.  I just think this is a non issue.   I mean are Luka and Brunson and Dame and SGA doing what they are talking about here?   I don't think so. 

[macdaddy]

3 minutes ago, thecampster said:

Take this with a grain of salt.

 

Earlier in the year I mentioned open conflict within the coaching staff as it pertained to young players, especially Jalen Johnson. After his very stat heavy year at College Park, the assistant coaches, other players expected heavy minutes from Jalen.  

Nate's reliance on smaller lineups and not giving Jalen Gallo type minutes irked some, especially those who worked most closely with JJ.

You can hear in the pressers how they are repeating "someone who connects with the players" (John, Trae, Jalen, etc) and "someone good at developing talent".

One of things not yet said is a jealousy the team feels over other orgs developing young players while we play old school and let them rot on the bench. This is one of the things Ressler openly questioned (why don't our young guys play like X,Y,Z).

What I'm hearing is that this has been simmering privately for 3 weeks+ and the coaches were basically in pro-Nate vs pro-young guns camp and that the decision to start Saddiq Bey was effectively a big "FU" to the assistants  propping up JJ.  So too was the near DNP for JJ in his last game.  There was some serious discontent in the Hawks locker room and it wasn't between Trae and Nate, but between Nate and 3 members of his staff.

A second point of contention was ball distribution and untimely substitution (something many members of this board have noticed).  Nate's over-reliance on iso sets created two problems  1) DJ is not as good as Trae in the PnR game and is more of a chaos movement player.  2) Other teams learned from the Heat in last year's playoffs and were determined to trap Trae and get the ball out of his hands. On good authority, one of the more experienced coaches suggested off ball curl screens (opposing top of the key from the ball handler) and switch pin downs as ways to loosen up defenses and Nate insisted their guys "figure out how to beat this coverage and not to rely on gimmicks".  As the season progressed, DJ's turnovers increased as he was forced to run sets that are not in his normal bag.  Without clear outs or off ball motion, DJ was attacked very similarly to Trae.  

The rumored Trae argued with Nate at practice that seemed to get covered up was actually Trae making the mistake of agreeing with a coach who openly disagreed with Nate.

The critique of Nate from the x's and o's coaches was his over reliance on 1v1 matchups on both offense and defense and insistence on players scrambling off blown coverages.  Additionally, Nate's historical tendency and reputation as a hot head led to not only him not engaging officials and fighting openly for his players but limiting his assistants from barking at the refs as well.  The players felt often as if they were playing against the refs which showed in their on court whining.  Nate tried to limit this as well, limit trash talking. It was summed up to me as "he was taking the emotion out of basketball".

 

The delay in firing Nate was due to the team having a cooling off period and to evaluate their options. When after a few days they saw no way forward, the decision was made to let Nate go now.

This rings so true.  Almost feels like Nate wanted to be fired.  Just wish we'd done it sooner.  I'm not sure how a month ago they thought it was a good idea to continue with Nate.  Or even 2 months ago. 

[JayBirdHawk]

On 1/8/2023 at 11:08 AM, JayBirdHawk said:

The front office upheaval has already caused that so like I said just rip off the bandaid and lay it bare.

 

54 minutes ago, Sothron said:

Here's something that bolsters your argument: the AS break is not at the halfway point in the season. We only have 23 games left in the season. Basically 1/4 of the schedule is left. When Nate talked about resigning in mid Dec we should have let him instead the FO talked him into staying on. Then Tony fired him yesterday. But if we had made the move then and gotten an outside hire in we would have had a solid month of the new coach already.

 

53 minutes ago, macdaddy said:

Yes!   That's why it's so surprising and dumb.   Just speaks to an org in disarray to me.   Way too many cooks in the kitchen.  

I called for ripping of the bandaid back in January.

[kg01]

9 minutes ago, macdaddy said:

I'm not buying this.   This is a system issue.   No one on the team moves without the ball.  They are all just running the plays that they are given.  Hopefully this changes.

But also i'd make the case that having Trae trying to be Reggie Miller is a terrible waste of time.  The one thing we know that he is elite at is playmaking.  I just think this is a non issue.   I mean are Luka and Brunson and Dame and SGA doing what they are talking about here?   I don't think so. 

It's lazy story-writing.  Sadly, it plays well to their base so there's no incentive for them to dig any deeper.

[terrell]

4 hours ago, Diesel said:

I meant no disrespect... What I mean is haters gonna hate (See Terrell)... so there's nothing that you can do about the Trae "coach killa"  agenda.   And while we're spending so much time on that agenda... The National Press knows nothing about the Hawks and don't care to learn anything.   There are vloggers who do 100 times better job of describing the state of sports  than BSPN and these other National Outlets.   There's better conversations like the things that we know about the coaching search... and if anybody says Atkinson again, I'm sending a seal team to your house...

Hating? Where? smh

Edited February 22, 2023 by terrell

[terrell]

4 hours ago, Spud2nique said:

I can’t I put him on ignore 8 months ago.

 

This.

 

ATKINSON! Wut? They’re cute I’ve always wanted one! Or a mini ..

Thank God for that...

 

[shakes]

13 minutes ago, macdaddy said:

I'm not buying this.   This is a system issue.   No one on the team moves without the ball.  They are all just running the plays that they are given.  Hopefully this changes.

But also i'd make the case that having Trae trying to be Reggie Miller is a terrible waste of time.  The one thing we know that he is elite at is playmaking.  I just think this is a non issue.   I mean are Luka and Brunson and Dame and SGA doing what they are talking about here?   I don't think so. 

have any of those guys been completely shut down at a historical level in a playoff series?

 

Trae is one of the best catch and shoot 3pt shooters in the league.  Why would it be a waste of time for him to move without the ball?

[Jody23]

 

[Jody23]

17 minutes ago, terrell said:

Trae's dad is responding just like I thought he would... 

 

I didn't see anything wrong with Mr. Young's response.  These narratives on Trae are ridiculous.  Kamla's take here is lazy and utter 🗑 .

[shakes]

21 minutes ago, terrell said:

Trae's dad is responding just like I thought he would... 

 

yep, Trae's dad is an idiot enabler at this point.

 

The post he has about how maybe his youngest shouldn't play basketball anymore because of all the horrible things his big brother has to deal with lacks any sort of self-awareness.    Sounds as dumb as SGA wearing a fur coat and saying that if they paid the players more they would consider trying in the all star game.

[Diesel]

3 hours ago, macdaddy said:

It was also one that Travis should have known better on.   Unless he was overruled.  It was a really tough spot to be in with the success that Nate had.  But making tough calls is the job.   If LP had finished the season they never would have considered Nate.  

Honestly I'm not even sure why Nate took it.   I guess the money is hard to turn down.  

That's BS Mac.

Travis should have known???  How? 

Under Nate we went 27-11 with a run into the ECFs.   Yeah, we won 71% of our games. Over a 82 games season, that's 58 wins.  That was Nate with no Camp using somebody else's crew.   How was Travis supposed to know.  The hindsight here is awesome. 

 

[terrell]

7 minutes ago, Jody23 said:

I didn't see anything wrong with Mr. Young's response.  These narratives on Trae are ridiculous.  Kamla's take here is lazy and utter 🗑 .

I didnt either.. I was just pointing it out.. Kamla is a clown.

Edited February 22, 2023 by terrell