Do you start to consider Bey over JC at the 4

[NBASupes]

8 minutes ago, marco102 said:

Not projecting anything.  I'm just reading the title of your thread.

Full disclosure: I probably should read your post, but I'm working 60 + hour weeks and don't have the mental capacity to take in longer posts at the moment.  I was just going off the title.  

If you don't want to start Bey over JC then fine. 

Wow! I understand my friend. Love you bro

[NBASupes]

11 minutes ago, Atlantaholic said:

Saddiq is the wing depth we needed. He's not goint to be a consistant difference maker as a starter, but as a guy off the bench on nights Hunter is in foul trouble (again) or doesn't have his shot, or Bogi is struggling (like he does quite often) then we have a guy who can play some minutes and hit some shots and isn't a complete turnstil on defense. We didn't have that guy and now we do. If Saddiq develops into a consistent scorer (45FG instead of 40) and his defense turns out to be a lot better than his advanced stats in Detroit would indicate THEN we can think about if he should be a long term starter for us, but obviously it would have to be at the 3 in favor of Hunter if that was the case. 

As bad as he was yesterday on D, his defensive metrics improved which is a testament to how bad things were in Detroit. 

6 minutes ago, ShooterSays said:

If anything, Bey can hopefully create some competition for Hunter to push him to get better. Something Dre hasn’t had since year 2 Cam…which was also when Dre took his biggest step forward.

It's hard to give comp to Hunter when you are bad on defense against 2s and 3s. That said, he gives us someone reliable which we haven't had as a backup 3 since Bazemore. That said, he looks a lot better at the 4. He provides the same spacing but at least he's not adding another bad perimeter defender along with Trae. At the 4, he's bad but he's next to a 5 and none of our 5s are bad, in fact all are plus defenders. 

Edited February 27, 2023 by NBASupes

[Diesel]

On 2/26/2023 at 8:20 AM, NBASupes said:

Shit posting. The Muggsy reference was trash and idiotic. Spud is in here trolling his ass off. Let him go off and sit In a corner playing his game boy. 

I am on my mobile. Whatever you posted isn't readable. Can you explain it?

Using Bouges as a point of reference as a center is a shit opinion. Just make your point logically and not like a goof. 

No one is forgetting about size or defense. It's clear from the offset of the thread, size and defense are being strongly considered and on Beys reference, it's horrible. -2.5 even if it's with the Pistons who are awful is not good. 

I don't care about rebounds like you do. I literally mentioned that in the other thread with you as the Diesel of someone who does. To me, rebounding would be a bigger deal if we were pairing him with OO. Even then, only as a starter since many backup 4s aren't even backup 4s. They are undersized 3s or 4s with no range, or something heavily flawed offensively. 

I think JC is the 2nd best defender on the team to Okongwu. He's one of the most improved defenders in the NBA right now and he's far more consistent than Okongwu right now. So I am the last person to underrate JC defense this year. I am one of the highest on JC that you will find when that wasn't the case last year or years ago. 

Size is important and I say that as JC is undersized for a 4. Bey is really undersized for a 4. I agree with that being an issue. I don't see where I am saying otherwise. 

They use Tucker as a 4. I don't think that matchup is as problematic as you are making it out to be. Especially since Trae can guard Melton since Maxey comes off the bench. We can enforce our will in that game. Get Melton in screens, force Embiid into coverage. Use Bey, Murray, and Hunter for spacing. Offensively, we can terrorize them. They optimize balance and became a better team but they became a lot easier for us as we got options to make their life hell due to Trae's PnR offense. 

Since when are the Hawks, the Pistons? We aren't one of the worst teams in the NBA with no creator. We got one of the best creators in the NBA as our PG. We can create open shots. DET can't. 

In short...

Why would you want to make an already Small Frontcourt Smaller??  In a Conference where we face:

Giannis,  Embiid,  the Raptors,  Valencinius, Orlando, Detroit, etc  

Why would you want to do that??

Don't say Spacing.  Spacing is not really the problem that you make it out to be.   Our spacing becomes a problem when we don't drop shots.   Honestly, instead of looking at the FG%... watch the game and look at the shots themselves.   DJ never has a problem getting an open shot in the midrange.  JC and CC are not bringing more defenders in the post.  The problem has been we get good open looks that we miss.  You think the thing we miss from Gallo is his ability to cause spacing.  Nope.   We miss it but the biggest thing we miss from Gallo is his ability to drop shots.   Gallo was a beast both on the perimeter and inside.   His post up game was ferocious.   When our offense would go into lulls, it was Gallo and sometimes Lou who would pull us out.   That's why last year and the year before, I credited our 2nd team for saving us.   They would come in and just score. 

We can have the same thing with Bey.   He is a scorer. He's more aggressive than your boy Dre.  He just needs training on how to defend in space. 

 

[NBASupes]

4 minutes ago, Diesel said:

In short...

Why would you want to make an already Small Frontcourt Smaller??  In a Conference where we face:

Giannis,  Embiid,  the Raptors,  Valencinius, Orlando, Detroit, etc  

Why would you want to do that??

Don't say Spacing.  Spacing is not really the problem that you make it out to be.   Our spacing becomes a problem when we don't drop shots.   Honestly, instead of looking at the FG%... watch the game and look at the shots themselves.   DJ never has a problem getting an open shot in the midrange.  JC and CC are not bringing more defenders in the post.  The problem has been we get good open looks that we miss.  You think the thing we miss from Gallo is his ability to cause spacing.  Nope.   We miss it but the biggest thing we miss from Gallo is his ability to drop shots.   Gallo was a beast both on the perimeter and inside.   His post up game was ferocious.   When our offense would go into lulls, it was Gallo and sometimes Lou who would pull us out.   That's why last year and the year before, I credited our 2nd team for saving us.   They would come in and just score. 

We can have the same thing with Bey.   He is a scorer. He's more aggressive than your boy Dre.  He just needs training on how to defend in space. 

 

No one is saying play Bey at the 5. 

Giannis? Bro, JC gets blasted by Giannis too. No one is saying Bey is a long-term solution starting at the 4. In fact, it's not even a good one but all I say, is it might be the best one of the table. 

Spacing is critical, especially for Trae and Murray. Look how much better our offense has been since the Bey trade. He's not even that good, just the fact that he can do Kevin shit makes our offense look damn near unstoppable at times. 

Look at our metrics since the trade and before the trade with Bey. Tell me there isn't a massive difference between scoring and efficiency-wise. 

We haven't replaced Gallo but do we need to? He was limited in way too many matchups. He was vital with Hunter against the Knicks but was trash against the Bucks and Sixers. Trash against the Heat. 

This year, we are just young but Bogi has been much better as well since the trade. You can say it's due to his health but he's got a lot of spacing now which he didn't have just a month ago. 

All of these players are guys I like to a degree. The only reason it seems I am bigger on Dre is that I see him for what he is. Many of you guys can't see that as what he does, doesn't move you. Thing is, it moves many GMs and execs in the NBA. Bey doesn't have the requisite athletic ability or lateral quickness. What he's lacking isn't effort or heart, it's God-given ability on that end. I still think he could learn to become a better team defender and I know he's capable because he did it at Villanova. Prunty sees something in him on D, I do too even if it's exclusively, at the 4. 

[RedDawg#8]

Whether due to injury or foul trouble, Bey is going to get plenty of floor time for us. The way refs treat Dre and JC, its good to have another 6 fouls available in a starting caliber player.

Continuity matters right now with all of the changes we have with the organization. I think we stay with our classic starting 5 while Quinn evaluates the roster and it's strengths/weaknesses.

Our bench unit is going to be bolstered by Bey's offense and maturity. Hopefully turning a weakness in to a stregnth.

[Atlantaholic]

Saddiq is essentially Huerter but still in his rookie deal. 

[Gray Mule]

Right now, AJ Griffin seems to have hit the wall in his shooting.  He's not accustomed to playing this many games in a season and it's beginning to show.  Bey is still on his rookie contract, I believe, but he's been thru a NBA season, therefore he should be good to go for the rest of the season.

Edited February 27, 2023 by Gray Mule

[macdaddy]

Was it posted here? Last night Bey tied Trae Young for 8th on the list of most made 3 pointers in their first 3 years.  

[MarylandHawk]

No to the OP. 

[NBASupes]

Hey @Diesel , my bad with saying thats ish posting yesterday. I gotta manage my behavior better on here. 

[RedDawg#8]

3 hours ago, Gray Mule said:

Right now, AJ Griffin seems to have hit the wall in his shooting.  He's not accustomed to playing this many games in a season and it's beginning to show. 

I agree @Gray Mule AJ is definitely slowing down a bit, which is to be expected from a rook.

I think adding Bey was a bit of a calculated move that helps offset some of the contributions of AJ, and maybe even JJ who is essentially a redshirt-rookie

Great observation

 

[Diesel]

9 hours ago, NBASupes said:

Hey @Diesel , my bad with saying thats ish posting yesterday. I gotta manage my behavior better on here. 

We all do.

No problem. 

 

[NBASupes]

 

 

Edited March 6, 2023 by NBASupes

[thecampster]

On 2/25/2023 at 10:47 PM, kg01 said:

I got nuthin'.  You made a reasonable comment as far as I can tell.  Guarantee you about 20 squawkers agree with you and are as confused as you and I are. 

I think it was a tongue in cheek comment that its insulting to Dre to say Bey should start over him.

Much like my libido, it fell flat.

[AHF]

@Spud2nique@NBASupes

As in the past, we aren't doing a public debate about whether people are good posters.  Keep it off the board.

[benhillboy]

4 hours ago, NBASupes said:

 

 

Can’t argue with that huge +/- gap.  Just can’t.

That older dude on the Hawks Bally pregame show mentioned benching JC so it probably has been whispered in the last few days.  Snyder is keyed into plus/ minus no doubt looking at his Jazz teams: I’m confident White Joe Ingles was his favorite player.  No coincidence the Bucks went crazy when he got back into the swing.
 

A Healthy JC benching  would reverberate through the league: he’s pretty well-respected and a full time starter for 5 years.  I never claim to know much about player transaction  of the actual value of picks in the NBA but a benching would seem like the final nail in the coffin of the Hawks tanking his value beyond repair.

Edited March 6, 2023 by benhillboy

[Spud2nique]

1 hour ago, AHF said:

@Spud2nique@NBASupes

As in the past, we aren't doing a public debate about whether people are good posters.  Keep it off the board.

Oh ya I forgot.

Edited March 6, 2023 by Spud2nique

[Spud2nique]

1 hour ago, AHF said:

@Spud2nique@NBASupes

As in the past, we aren't doing a public debate about whether people are good posters.  Keep it off the board.

YES SHIIIRRRR!!!

[AHF]

57 minutes ago, benhillboy said:

Can’t argue with that huge +/- gap.  Just can’t.

That older dude on the Hawks Bally pregame show mentioned benching JC so it probably has been whispered in the last few days.  Snyder is keyed into plus/ minus no doubt looking at his Jazz teams: I’m confident White Joe Ingles was his favorite player.  No coincidence the Bucks went crazy when he got back into the swing.
 

A Healthy JC benching  would reverberate through the league: he’s pretty well-respected and a full time starter for 5 years.  I never claim to know much about player transaction  of the actual value of picks in the NBA but a benching would seem like the final nail in the coffin of the Hawks tanking his value beyond repair.

If he keeps playing like this whether he is starting or not probably doesn't matter but if you have decided to move on from JC then you should probably keep starting him and try to improve his performance and then deal him this offseason.

(As an aside, it hurts me to see that stat line for JC over 5 games.  Granted that is a small window in his career or even this season but those numbers are woeful.  He should never have a 5 game stretch where he doesn't average 5 rpg.)

[Diesel]

42 minutes ago, benhillboy said:

Can’t argue with that huge +/- gap.  Just can’t.

That older dude on the Hawks Bally pregame show mentioned benching JC so it probably has been whispered in the last few days.  Snyder is keyed into plus/ minus no doubt looking at his Jazz teams: I’m confident White Joe Ingles was his favorite player.  No coincidence the Bucks went crazy when he got back into the swing.
 

A Healthy JC benching  would reverberate through the league: he’s pretty well-respected and a full time starter for 5 years.  I never claim to know much about player transaction  of the actual value of picks in the NBA but a benching would seem like the final nail in the coffin of the Hawks tanking his value beyond repair.

I'm not crazy about his defense at the 4 but JC is giving us nothing.. and I know that JC has been on Minutes restrictions... but even in the time he's been out there... nothing. 

Even though Benching him will wreck his value in a trade.. at this point, we're not expecting much back in a trade.