Do you start to consider Bey over JC at the 4

[RedDawg#8]

We have 4 good defenders around Trae and the best defensive 5-man unit in the NBA with JC starting.

Defense wins championships 

JC stays in the starting lineup 

[Diesel]

Shit posting??

I think you should look your post/proposal in the mirror and give it the sniff test...

Anyway... everybody sees this but you....

Rk	Player	Season	Age	G	GS	MP	FG	FGA	FG%	3P	3PA	3P%	2P	2PA	2P%	eFG%	FT	FTA	FT%	ORB	DRB	TRB	AST	STL	BLK	TOV	PF	PTS
1	Saddiq Bey	2022-23	23	55	32	28.5	4.7	11.4	.408	2.0	5.6	.355	2.7	5.8	.458	.494	3.3	3.9	.863	1.2	3.5	4.7	1.6	0.9	0.2	1.0	1.6	14.6
2	John Collins	2022-23	25	50	50	31.1	5.2	10.2	.506	0.8	3.2	.248	4.4	7.0	.624	.545	2.1	2.6	.813	1.1	6.0	7.1	1.2	0.7	1.2	1.2	3.3	13.

Remember that Mugsy Joke...

Look at Total rebounds.   Look at Blocks per game.  The problem is just like Mugsy playing the 5.. you want to forget about defense and size... You want to ignore the fact that John playing just a few minutes more than Bey per game is pulling down more than 2.0 reb per game.   You want to ignore that John, while not a great defender.. do get 1.0 more blocks per game than Bey. 

The thing is John is 6'9, 226 while Bey is 6'7 214.  That size in an undersized frontcourt matters.  But it's shit to you.

Imagine Embiid's excitement when we're playing the 76ers and they work out the switch and Bey is guarding Embiid... That's a made Bucket everytime. 

We don't have to guess... 

76ers vs. Pistons.   Embiid played 24 minutes and scored 36 points. 

 

But carry on. 

[h4wkfan]

I don’t think I have much to add other than what’s already been said. 
 

it’s a no for me. It would giving up even more size. plus Beys skill set is best served coming off the bench.

 

JC in the starting lineup has actually been very effective. Having bey come in as a gunner off the bench is exactly the piece our bench needed to become a (hopeful) non weak link. 

[NBASupes]

4 hours ago, RedDawg#8 said:

We have 4 good defenders around Trae and the best defensive 5-man unit in the NBA with JC starting.

Defense wins championships 

JC stays in the starting lineup 

Yeah, the 5 man lineup looks but many of our five man lineups look good. OO with most look good. Griffin looks good in most 5 man lineups. It's really JJ and Bogi struggling in 5 man lines, Bogi defensively and JJ all around. His production just isn't matching his impact. He's still finding his way in the NBA. 

I always said that as well (4 plus defenders) but looking at it now. I don't know if I believe that anymore. Maybe I underestimated how important making Trae a #2 option is till the end of last year. At the end of the day, Trae is young, you continue to learn as you go with him. 

Overwhelming offense can win championships as well. The thing is, you need go be an elite defense at getting stocks aka causing turnovers and converting them to points or you need to be an elite defense at versatility to cover for being less than excellent or elite on D. When we went to the ECF, our best trait was our versatility on D. We would throw out so many different schemes and different ways to beat you on that end. We had one of the best Giannis walls. We had one of the best Knicks schemes where we were having Randle deal with Hunter, Gallo, and Capela. We made life hell for NY offensive players because of our defensive versatility. 

So I believe we can win a title but we are going to have to go ALL in on offense to do it in my opinion. 

You can say JC isn't the issue when you see our 5 man lineups and have a point. But watching two games with Bey and our offensive efficiency is through the roof and we score easier than the Kings. We made Cleveland elite defense looks like Swiss cheese and yes, Cleveland defense is really elite. That said, a Bey lineup isn't getting us to the ECF or beyond that due to the teams who are contenders. 

[JayBirdHawk]

Saddiq at the moment, is a CnS specialist with the ability to attack a close out. Greatly needed for our bench unit.

 

 

 

 

[NBASupes]

2 hours ago, Diesel said:

Shit posting??

I think you should look your post/proposal in the mirror and give it the sniff test...

Anyway... everybody sees this but you....

Rk	Player	Season	Age	G	GS	MP	FG	FGA	FG%	3P	3PA	3P%	2P	2PA	2P%	eFG%	FT	FTA	FT%	ORB	DRB	TRB	AST	STL	BLK	TOV	PF	PTS
1	Saddiq Bey	2022-23	23	55	32	28.5	4.7	11.4	.408	2.0	5.6	.355	2.7	5.8	.458	.494	3.3	3.9	.863	1.2	3.5	4.7	1.6	0.9	0.2	1.0	1.6	14.6
2	John Collins	2022-23	25	50	50	31.1	5.2	10.2	.506	0.8	3.2	.248	4.4	7.0	.624	.545	2.1	2.6	.813	1.1	6.0	7.1	1.2	0.7	1.2	1.2	3.3	13.

Remember that Mugsy Joke...

Look at Total rebounds.   Look at Blocks per game.  The problem is just like Mugsy playing the 5.. you want to forget about defense and size... You want to ignore the fact that John playing just a few minutes more than Bey per game is pulling down more than 2.0 reb per game.   You want to ignore that John, while not a great defender.. do get 1.0 more blocks per game than Bey. 

The thing is John is 6'9, 226 while Bey is 6'7 214.  That size in an undersized frontcourt matters.  But it's shit to you.

Imagine Embiid's excitement when we're playing the 76ers and they work out the switch and Bey is guarding Embiid... That's a made Bucket everytime. 

We don't have to guess... 

76ers vs. Pistons.   Embiid played 24 minutes and scored 36 points. 

 

But carry on. 

Shit posting. The Muggsy reference was trash and idiotic. Spud is in here trolling his ass off. Let him go off and sit In a corner playing his game boy. 

I am on my mobile. Whatever you posted isn't readable. Can you explain it?

Using Bouges as a point of reference as a center is a shit opinion. Just make your point logically and not like a goof. 

No one is forgetting about size or defense. It's clear from the offset of the thread, size and defense are being strongly considered and on Beys reference, it's horrible. -2.5 even if it's with the Pistons who are awful is not good. 

I don't care about rebounds like you do. I literally mentioned that in the other thread with you as the Diesel of someone who does. To me, rebounding would be a bigger deal if we were pairing him with OO. Even then, only as a starter since many backup 4s aren't even backup 4s. They are undersized 3s or 4s with no range, or something heavily flawed offensively. 

I think JC is the 2nd best defender on the team to Okongwu. He's one of the most improved defenders in the NBA right now and he's far more consistent than Okongwu right now. So I am the last person to underrate JC defense this year. I am one of the highest on JC that you will find when that wasn't the case last year or years ago. 

Size is important and I say that as JC is undersized for a 4. Bey is really undersized for a 4. I agree with that being an issue. I don't see where I am saying otherwise. 

They use Tucker as a 4. I don't think that matchup is as problematic as you are making it out to be. Especially since Trae can guard Melton since Maxey comes off the bench. We can enforce our will in that game. Get Melton in screens, force Embiid into coverage. Use Bey, Murray, and Hunter for spacing. Offensively, we can terrorize them. They optimize balance and became a better team but they became a lot easier for us as we got options to make their life hell due to Trae's PnR offense. 

Since when are the Hawks, the Pistons? We aren't one of the worst teams in the NBA with no creator. We got one of the best creators in the NBA as our PG. We can create open shots. DET can't. 

[NBASupes]

13 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

Saddiq at the moment, is a CnS specialist with the ability to attack a close out. Greatly needed for our bench unit.

 

 

 

 

He's a lot more than a C&S specialist. That's something like Tony Snell in Atlanta. Bey can attack aggressive closeouts off the dribble like Kevin. He's a subtle movement player like Kevin where they make smart moves off the move even if it's not many steps. They don't just stand in a corner in a heliocentric offense like Hunter, Murray, JC, Griffin, and JJ. He can score on three levels. His shot release is confident and quick. He gives you the same feel when he had Kevin that every open 3 is going in. Like Kevin, isn't the best shooter when contested. While he has good shot IQ, Kevin had elite shot IQ. 

He clearly helps our bench unit and that's ultimately going to be his role on a championship level squad. That said, on this squad, we need to start considering him as a starter. Especially if JC doesn't get it together on offense. 

[Gray Mule]

Joe Prunty if a different coach than Nate.  Most of us agree that he was one of the reasons that our Hawk team looked different.  Quin Snyder, our expected new head coach, will be a lot different than we have become accustomed to from Nate.

You fellows can argue all you want to about all the stats available and the size and talent of different players.  We may all believe that we can guess how our new coach will use the players available.  Later on, we may see things he is doing and say, "Well, I wasn't expecting this!"

Please.  We are all Hawk fans.  Surely we can agree to disagree without going overboard.  

[Spud2nique]

1 star thread I just voted . I’d give it no stars ️ if I could. We should put the “no star” option up.

[Spud2nique]

19 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

I think JC is the 2nd best defender on the team to Okongwu.

 Not DM huh? 

[Final_quest]

34 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

Saddiq at the moment, is a CnS specialist with the ability to attack a close out. Greatly needed for our bench unit.

 

 

 

 

Haven't heard anyone say it, but is he our new Gallo?  

[NBASupes]

1 minute ago, Final_quest said:

Haven't heard anyone say it, but is he our new Gallo?  

He honestly could be long term. His metrics are favorable with Gallo but that's based on Detroit. With us, his metrics are more in line with Kevin Huerter last year but better defensively. 

[NBASupes]

5 minutes ago, Spud2nique said:

 Not DM huh? 

He's 3rd. Hunter 4th. Capela dropped all the way to 5th. Capela regression on defense hasn't gone unnoticed by me.

[JayBirdHawk]

9 minutes ago, Final_quest said:

Haven't heard anyone say it, but is he our new Gallo?  

Interesting, I like that. I think he can fill several roles like Gallo did who played  mostly PF and C, (but I wished he saw more time at SF in a big lineup. Bey is mostly a SF, but can slide up to PF or if coach chooses to play him at SG depending on team needs.

[JayBirdHawk]

On 2/10/2023 at 12:42 PM, JayBirdHawk said:

Love that we got Bey, but can we please pump the brakes on him being a replacement for 'anybody'. This team lacks solid NBA depth that can contribute nightly. He's got 26 games for us to determine where and how he fits. 

Hopefully, his acquisition pushes Hunter to be more consistent.

 

Reposting what I said when we first acquired Bey. Still stands for me.

[NBASupes]

Back to @Diesel, you mention he's 214. Maybe at Villanova. He looks 230-235 right now. He looks heavier than Hunter who's 228. It wouldn't shock me if him and JC weighed the same amount if Bey didn't weigh more. Didn't JC say last year, he was 225. 

[NBASupes]

14 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

Interesting, I like that. I think he can fill several roles like Gallo did who played  mostly PF and C, (but I wished he saw more time at SF in a big lineup. Bey is mostly a SF, but can slide up to PF or if coach chooses to play him at SG depending on team needs.

I disagree. He don't have a position defensively we can rely to say he's a 2, 3, or 4 as he's just not reliable on that end right now. Offensively, he can play 2, 3, 4. He's extremely reliable on that end.

[JayBirdHawk]

1 minute ago, NBASupes said:

I disagree. He don't have a position defensively we can rely to say he's a 2, 3, or 4 as he's just not reliable on that end right now. Offensively, he can play 2, 3, 4. He's extremely reliable on that end.

What position has he played most of minutes so far?

[NBASupes]

5 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

What position has he played most of minutes so far?

4 defensively. He's generally guarding 4s. 

[JayBirdHawk]

Just now, NBASupes said:

4 defensively. He's generally guarding 4s. 

I'm asking you to post the actual stats by minutes.