OFFICIAL: Hawks and All we do is Quin Quin Quin

[benhillboy]

16th for Quinn sounds accurate.

[AHF]

Just now, benhillboy said:

16th for Quinn sounds accurate.

It doesn't hurt my head.  He needs to be prove he is significantly better than middle of the pack as a coach.  Last season was not a good one in that respect.  I do think he has the potential to move way up on that list but I'm also not someone who thinks he is a proven commodity.

[benhillboy]

9 minutes ago, AHF said:

It doesn't hurt my head.  He needs to be prove he is significantly better than middle of the pack as a coach.  Last season was not a good one in that respect.  I do think he has the potential to move way up on that list but I'm also not someone who thinks he is a proven commodity.

He really hurt his stock not getting Trae and DJ to work, two wildly talented guards.  Better use of fouls and a couple sharp off ball read and react plays a game from the two could’ve had the Hawks near an even point diff alone.  That and hitting 30th in defense last year with a vet-laden squad.  I just couldn’t take it.

Edited 23 hours ago by benhillboy

[Gray Mule]

5 minutes ago, AHF said:

It doesn't hurt my head.  He needs to be prove he is significantly better than middle of the pack as a coach.  Last season was not a good one in that respect.  I do think he has the potential to move way up on that list but I'm also not someone who thinks he is a proven commodity.

Pardon me while I say this.  "I believe that any coach is only as good as his assistant coaches and the players he has to work with.  If he falls way short in either one, he is doomed to failure.  So, the real question is, how good are his assistant coaches and the players on the Hawks roster?"

[JeffS17]

3 minutes ago, benhillboy said:

He really hurt his stock not getting Trae and DJ to work, two wildly talented guards.  Better use of fouls and a couple sharp off ball read and react plays a game from the two could’ve had the Hawks near an even point diff alone.  That and hitting 30th in defense last year with a vet-laden squad.  I just couldn’t take it.

Don't disagree with you and I would love to be a fly on the wall during practices.

I think part of the problem is we had too many guys that couldn't play make or dribble at an NBA level, so every pass from DJ or Trae that wasn't back to DJ or Trae was the end of the play.  This is probably both a personnel and coaching issue.  This was more true the first year before JJ started getting minutes but still largely held last season.  In my mind, the failure of Trae/DJ is pretty simple in that Trae pretty much has to have the ball in his hands 90% of the time-- otherwise, why is he even out there?  He's not an off ball player, he's not a screener, he's not a cutter-- his off ball play is him standing 5 feet behind the 3P line on the wing waiting for a play to break down.  That's like off ball anti-gravity.  And he's a massive liability on defense, so he just needs that ball at all times.  Poor fit, failed experiemnt. 

Quin has a lot to prove developing the guys on the roster now and doing something with this roster that no one expects to do anything.

[AHF]

1 hour ago, JeffS17 said:

Don't disagree with you and I would love to be a fly on the wall during practices.

I think part of the problem is we had too many guys that couldn't play make or dribble at an NBA level, so every pass from DJ or Trae that wasn't back to DJ or Trae was the end of the play.  This is probably both a personnel and coaching issue.  This was more true the first year before JJ started getting minutes but still largely held last season.  In my mind, the failure of Trae/DJ is pretty simple in that Trae pretty much has to have the ball in his hands 90% of the time-- otherwise, why is he even out there?  He's not an off ball player, he's not a screener, he's not a cutter-- his off ball play is him standing 5 feet behind the 3P line on the wing waiting for a play to break down.  That's like off ball anti-gravity.  And he's a massive liability on defense, so he just needs that ball at all times.  Poor fit, failed experiemnt. 

Quin has a lot to prove developing the guys on the roster now and doing something with this roster that no one expects to do anything.

Definitely some personnel liabilities but also like you point out there are some scheme things that weren't great last year as well.  If the best off ball play that Quin could design with Trae was him standing 5 feet behind the 3pt line that doesn't speak well for Trae or Quin.  The most we really saw from the two of them on the floor together on offense was a "your turn, my turn" "scheme" so that doesn't reflect well on any of them either.  You'd expect something better from a scheme point of view to maximize their talents.

On defense, I think the two of them were a lost cause that no scheme would do much to help so I am not really critical of Quin there.  Trae having a strong year in terms of drawing charges and generating steals only helps to mitigate his defensive struggles (it doesn't overcome them) and DM is a disaster as a SG defender. 

The fact that Trae / Bogi >> DM / Bogi >>>>>> Trae + DM really speaks volumes because Bogi sure isn't a standout defender.

[Jdawgflow]

8 hours ago, Gray Mule said:

Yep.  Maybe I'm showing my age.  I still write checks to pay some of my bills.  Yep.  I still know how to balance my checkbook.

Just don’t try to write one at target.  I just saw they stopped accepting checks.

[benhillboy]

21 hours ago, JeffS17 said:

Don't disagree with you and I would love to be a fly on the wall during practices.

I think part of the problem is we had too many guys that couldn't play make or dribble at an NBA level, so every pass from DJ or Trae that wasn't back to DJ or Trae was the end of the play.  This is probably both a personnel and coaching issue.  This was more true the first year before JJ started getting minutes but still largely held last season.  In my mind, the failure of Trae/DJ is pretty simple in that Trae pretty much has to have the ball in his hands 90% of the time-- otherwise, why is he even out there?  He's not an off ball player, he's not a screener, he's not a cutter-- his off ball play is him standing 5 feet behind the 3P line on the wing waiting for a play to break down.  That's like off ball anti-gravity.  And he's a massive liability on defense, so he just needs that ball at all times.  Poor fit, failed experiemnt. 

Quin has a lot to prove developing the guys on the roster now and doing something with this roster that no one expects to do anything.

Yeah I never expected much as an off ball player.  As @NBASupes has stated before it takes a helluva lot of energy, and Trae already expends so much dribbling and absorbing contact.  He's actually a very good hand fighter, we’ve seen him look like a boxer on sideline out of bounds plays.  The strength and stamina for 35 minutes just isn’t possible with his body type.

I know he needs to be on ball predominantly, I’ve always lauded his dribble/ pass/ shoot profile.  But he just can’t reach my baseline production for Luka/ Jordan level usage.  The further he gets away from 45/ 38/ 90 shooting splits the more diminishing the returns for his ball dominance.  I can’t call you a masterful floor general until you approach a 3:1 assist to turnover regardless of your workload: Trae hasn’t been close. If Luka and Jordan have tough shooting nights they still have high level attack of the glass and STOCKS to fall back on as contributions.  Let alone just a higher basketball sense (Jordan with Phil). 

Edited 1 hour ago by benhillboy