If the Hawks do this, they will win games 3 and 4...

[JayBirdHawk]

8 hours ago, Diesel said:

He rarely gets them because he has the ball most of the time...

How can we talk about how "abysmal" his off the ball game is.. when we don't see him off the ball??  You, yourself mentioned... 2 Plays in 82 games.   AND NOW.. He's Abysmal?

1 car ran the light in 10 yrs of it being in use...   That light is a haven for light runners. 

 

 

@TheNorthCydeRises This is from December where I said:

 - you have to move Trae off-ball with PURPOSE and INTENTION - not just move to move. Really moving off ball requires the entire team to set the appropriate screens and someone to get him the ball coming off said screens. I agree he can do a better job RELOCATING when he gives up the ball, but giving the ball up while another players goes one and one is pointless.  Move him for real CnS opportunities.

Quote

It's hard to even say McMillan has instituted any kind of offensive system. Any shot the Hawks get is a result of individual creation, almost entirely by either Young or Murray. The Hawks make the fewest passes per game in the league by a wide margin, and their off-ball movement is virtually nonexistent. Young still hasn't committed to that aspect of his game, and that's on him, but to be fair McMillan hasn't implemented the kind of impromptu screening and cutting culture required to make the movement of a player like Young consistently worthwhile. It takes everyone working together and in anticipation to free up a shooter, not just one guy running around.

 

To be fair, the Hawks finished with the No. 2 offense last season playing largely the same way, ..........but the your-turn-my-turn creation philosophy with Young and Murray feels positively pick-upish. There needs to be a system that can create shots for the shot creators. 

McMillan has not proven he's the guy to institute that kind of thing, either because he doesn't believe in such an offense, lacks the creativity to put it in play, or can't get the players, specifically Young, who's used to controlling everything with the ball in his hands, to buy into such a change

 

https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/trae-young-gives-hawks-a-punchers-chance-now-but-their-real-window-should-open-in-a-few-years/amp/

 

So....design an actual system, put him in it, and see if he buys in or no. Let's see what Quin comes up with in the offseason.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

7 hours ago, shakes said:

Agreed.  I think it's pretty obvious watching Trae over the years that his absolute best shooting skill is catch and shoot 3s.  he's as elite as they come in that department.    But he rarely gets them because of how abysmal he is off the ball.

I hope his poor shooting this year causes a light bulb to show up where Trae realizes that he might actually benefit from running his ass off when he is off the ball.      But I'm not holding out anymore hope.  I said the EXACT SAME THING last year after the Miami series.  And here we are again.

This alone is why I've come to realize that Trae isn't as smart of a player as I thought he was.  To me this seems as easy as ABC123.     And it's not jut about Trae getting open catch and shoot looks.  Even on possessions where he won't touch the ball, the constant movement of Trae would cause others to become WIDE OPEN because the D would be constantly shifting to adjust to Trae's movement.

It really is baffling how this can still be a thing with Trae.  The G-dam blueprint for how to do this successfully is on full display with Steph.

 

Agreed.  I think it's pretty obvious watching Trae over the years that his absolute best shooting skill is catch and shoot 3s.  he's as elite as they come in that department.    But he rarely gets them because of how abysmal he is off the ball.

He also doesn't get passes back from his teammates when he is open.  When Trae passes the ball to people, they're more likely to try to find their own shot, than to get it back to him when he is open.

 

I hope his poor shooting this year causes a light bulb to show up where Trae realizes that he might actually benefit from running his ass off when he is off the ball.      But I'm not holding out anymore hope.  I said the EXACT SAME THING last year after the Miami series.  And here we are again.

Question. Name another PG that runs off the ball ( outside of Steph Curry ).  Maybe I'm missing something, but I don't know of any PGs that does a lot of running off the ball to get his shots.  Maybe Dame Lillard?  But he has the ball in his hands a lot too when he takes shots.

 

This alone is why I've come to realize that Trae isn't as smart of a player as I thought he was.  To me this seems as easy as ABC123.     And it's not jut about Trae getting open catch and shoot looks.  Even on possessions where he won't touch the ball, the constant movement of Trae would cause others to become WIDE OPEN because the D would be constantly shifting to adjust to Trae's movement.

It really is baffling how this can still be a thing with Trae.  The G-dam blueprint for how to do this successfully is on full display with Steph.

Still trying to think of another PG that does this.  The only one I can think of is Allen Iverson.  And when he did it, Eric Snow was handling the PG duties, while AI was the scorer.

 

 

 

[TheNorthCydeRises]

And when people talk about Steph Curry like movement off the ball, understand what that is.

That is Steph using a plethora of off ball screens to free him up.  It's not Steph just running to an open spot on the floor.  The offense is specifically designed to get him shots. And all of his teammates are looking to get him the ball.

And when you have a big like Draymond that can make the correct type of passes, it makes Steph even more deadly.

 

 

[Diesel]

@TheNorthCydeRises  Well stated!!!  Being off ball is strategic.   I hadn't really thought of the off ball play specifically..  

There is no case for that.  

 

[TheNorthCydeRises]

3 minutes ago, Diesel said:

@TheNorthCydeRises  Well stated!!!  Being off ball is strategic.   I hadn't really thought of the off ball play specifically..  

There is no case for that.  

 

 

It's the fact that people in the media have tried to dub Trae as a Steph Curry clone ( only because of the deep 3s ), that they don't even watch the Warriors offense and even understand what Steph is doing.

Unfortunately, our fans have fallen for this "Trae should move off the ball" stuff. That's why I always ask the question . . . what other PG than Steph Curry, do you know moves off the ball?  If they're talking about cutting to the basket, OK.  If they're talking about doing what Curry does, that's an entire offensive scheme.

[JayBirdHawk]

24 minutes ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

The offense is specifically designed to get him shots. And all of his teammates are looking to get him the ball.

[bird_dirt]

49 minutes ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:He also doesn't get passes back from his teammates when he is open.  When Trae passes the ball to people, they're more likely to try to find their own shot, than to get it back to him when he is open.

This right here. 
Who else passes on this team besides Trae? 
DJM has been unimpressive as a distributor IMO. He loves going ISO. 
 

I was watching video of someone complaining of Trae not moving more when off ball, but every sample clip they showed was him standing wide open at the three line. Usually with DJM driving into a multiple defenders in the paint. 
 

People wouldn’t be saying ish about movement if they got it to him when he’s open. 

[JTB]

7 hours ago, JayBirdHawk said:

@TheNorthCydeRises This is from December where I said:

 - you have to move Trae off-ball with PURPOSE and INTENTION - not just move to move. Really moving off ball requires the entire team to set the appropriate screens and someone to get him the ball coming off said screens. I agree he can do a better job RELOCATING when he gives up the ball, but giving the ball up while another players goes one and one is pointless.  Move him for real CnS opportunities.

 

To be fair, the Hawks finished with the No. 2 offense last season playing largely the same way, ..........but the your-turn-my-turn creation philosophy with Young and Murray feels positively pick-upish. There needs to be a system that can create shots for the shot creators. 

McMillan has not proven he's the guy to institute that kind of thing, either because he doesn't believe in such an offense, lacks the creativity to put it in play, or can't get the players, specifically Young, who's used to controlling everything with the ball in his hands, to buy into such a change

 

https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/trae-young-gives-hawks-a-punchers-chance-now-but-their-real-window-should-open-in-a-few-years/amp/

 

So....design an actual system, put him in it, and see if he buys in or no. Let's see what Quin comes up with in the offseason.

Regardless of what any hater of Trae wants…the reality is he has a 1% percent chance of getting traded even when he’s playing poorly because from a business aspect he’s putting asses in seats.

That said even IF Trae wasn’t great for business I still think it’s more beneficial to see what an actual modern great all around coach in Synder can do with him before exploring trades.

The Trae Haters try to pin that uncoachable nonsense on him but we all know Mcmillian never coached an offense that uses ball and player movement. We all know LP offensive scheme was built primarily around the pick and only the pick.…none of Traes previous coaches stressed ball movement to Trae. McMillan talked about 10% off ball movement for Trae last season and nothing else. McMillan didn’t have this request for the team just Trae. At the end of the day it was just something for Mcmillian to say, he didn’t act on it nor did he have a proper staff to support it.

….now Trae has a coach that’s known for making all his players move off ball and has shown he has a great understanding ball and player movement. It’s all about getting the rest of Synders staff in place at this point.

 

IF Trae doesn’t work out under Synder it will be a real and true red flag that he’s really incapable to advance to another level.  All Trae fans know that Synder is the real deal..we got a top coach off the market. We know how to hold Trae accountable but we had to have the right coach in place regardless.

 

[JeffS17]

We have the coach in place and now we just need patience.  Quin will put in a modern offense but we're not going to turn into the Warriors either way.  His offenses are PnR heavy

[Diesel]

4 hours ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

 

It's the fact that people in the media have tried to dub Trae as a Steph Curry clone ( only because of the deep 3s ), that they don't even watch the Warriors offense and even understand what Steph is doing.

Unfortunately, our fans have fallen for this "Trae should move off the ball" stuff. That's why I always ask the question . . . what other PG than Steph Curry, do you know moves off the ball?  If they're talking about cutting to the basket, OK.  If they're talking about doing what Curry does, that's an entire offensive scheme.

Curry is truly the Reggie Miller of PGs.