2023-24 Insider Information Thread

[thecampster]

2 hours ago, JayBirdHawk said:

 

 

Phoenix has potential trade partners right now for Ayton. Pushing this on social media is just a negotiation tactic on their behalf.

 

[Spud2nique]

30 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

Most of it starts July 1 2023. Things like the 2nd Tax Apron penalties starts in the 2024 season.

Are you gonna start a free agent thread soon? Or is it too soon?  I’m more excited about free agency and trades than I was the draft to be honest. We in vet hunt mode.

 

 

[Spud2nique]

On 6/23/2023 at 12:20 PM, Gray Mule said:

Come on Spud.  Calm down.  Get yourself a hot cup of coffee and just relax.  

I did better than that gramps! The prodigal son returned to church ️. I feel better now. More centered. Nicer. Holier.  

[bleachkit]

We have zero cap space as of now. Trades are our only avenue for improvement. 

[sturt]

37 minutes ago, bleachkit said:

We have zero cap space as of now. Trades are our only avenue for improvement. 

Yes and no.

We have no cap space, yep yep.

 

But like practically everyone else, we have MLE we can  theoretically use for some improvement.

 

But but... we're way back in that FA pecking order, first by virtue of having no cap space to afford the top tier talent, and second by virtue of other teams having (a) more minutes they can offer a given player (given how our rotation is stacked), and (b) more large market media affection potential (eg, NY, LA, CHI, BOS, etc).

Oh. And then there's the whole question of whether the owner will, indeed, be willing to pay that much more tax, assuming he'll pay any at all, right?

 

Too bad. There will almost certainly be some second-tier talents who have to accept MLE dollars because of the scarcity of cap space even among the handful of teams that have some cap space.

 

And trades... unless you can strike a trade with a team with cap space (HOU, IND, SAS, DET) or a team looking to tank (WAS), it's highly unlikely the net outcome of a given trade is going to result in any immediate improvement on the floor for next season.

 

[GameTime]

1 hour ago, JeffS17 said:

I'm afraid it will be something like this:

What a horrible trade. Still irks me to this day we let Velvet go for peanuts. 

[terrell]

1 hour ago, sturt said:

You didn't like the return?

Um.

WHAT return?

Not only did you get no return and an on-court talent deficit for 60-ish games of the 2022-23 season until Bey's arrival... but YOUR GM EFFECTIVELY PAID FIVE 2ND ROUND DRAFT PICKS for the PLEASURE of getting NOOOOOO return.

(Caps not shouting, but for emphasis.)

 

Two things.

First you're co-mingling here, and you don't seem to even get it that you're co-mingling, my friend.

What am I talking about.

a) The Hawks' final offensive rating was 116 and change. And final defensive rating was 116 and change.

So what?

So, basketball games are decided routinely on the basis of as little as ONE missed or made free throw... a one point loss or win... or... as much as... THREE MISSED 3 point shots or made... a single-digits difference loss or win.

Sooooo... it probably doesn't matter all that much to your final W/L record if your typical offensive output is, say, 3-6 points less than your typical defensive output.

And the converse is true... it matters mathematically a helluvalot when your outputs are virtually the same.... AND you're missing a proven, veteran, primary weapon (BogBog) in your arsenal for almost half the season... PLUS, IN ADDITION to that, and to the precise point here, YOU'RE MISSING A PROVEN, VETERAN PRIMARY WEAPON (KVon) IN YOUR ARSENAL FOR ALMOST 60 GAMES (ie, until Bey's arrival).

Then, even when you have those two situations resolved, let's just change head coaches, and let the whole ecosystem we call a team get to re-calibrate to new leadership and that new leadership's decision-making and by most accounts, very-different coaching philosophies.

It's a .500 team, sure. But let's be sober. It's a .500 team under the specific, actual, fact-based conditions laid out above.

What it would have been WITHOUT THE AFTERMATH OF THE KVON TRADE is almost certainly something better, if not significantly better than .500.

 

 b)  You're entirely right that if we're talking about off-court benefit, the owner saved money, and too, the GM gained an asset that could be valuable for some season in the future (SAC 2024 conditional FRP).

But.

When we're talking specifically about the 2022-23 season... this is irrefutably true, not because muah said it, but because it is irrefutably true.

 

"But what about this?"

 

That's fine.

But all due respect, North... you were going to have AJ on the roster no matter what anyhow, and if his talent rose to the level of eclipsing KVon's performance, in that case, all things being equal, you were going to see him get minutes anyhow.

So, sure, it bodes well for future seasons to have seen AJ get minutes.

But for the 22-23 season, it was part of the equation that contributed to a .500 22-23 regular season.

What's more... let's be sober enough to recognize, too, that AJ's butt was on the bench for the playoffs. Even our highly-regarded head coach, by evidence of the facts, felt the team had a better chance of winning games with more veteran talent on the floor.

 

(Sidebar: I find it hilarious, truly, that one poster in particular... not you North... has argued so incessantly in agreement with me on this, but ya know... it's me... sturt... so, she's gonna be mighty interested to poke holes in any conclusion once she realizes she's on my side and me on hers. She really don't like me, I spose. Dunno why. I'm honestly her best friend around here. No, really. But that's a whole other discussion for a different thread, if at all. )

 

 

 

Geez..You must have a thing for red-heads.. lol

I didnt like the "players" we got in return.. I LOVED the 1st rd pick though...

And Im not arguing it was a great deal(we werent getting anything more than a fake 1st rdr imo), Im just saying I had no problem with trading him..

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited June 25, 2023 by terrell

[sturt]

27 minutes ago, terrell said:

Im just saying I had no problem with trading him..

 

Right. I got that.

But none of that responds to the

- Neglect to recognize that the ".500 team" label only applies to the actual conditions where KVon was given away for literally no 2022-23 asset... and... related...

- The fact that what disappointment occurred for the 2022-23 season... specifically 22-23... can be most vividly and tectonically traced back to the decision to make that trade... ie, by Schlenk, or by Ressler, or by Ressler Junior, or by Fields, or by whatever combination of some or all of those is valid.

To have no problem with trading him is the same as saying, "I have no problem with how the 22-23 season turned out."

 

My Spidey sense?

Whoever was against the KVon trade (assuming there were those in the room who did) couldn't help himself/themselves, and he/they was/were incessantly verbally and/or non-verbally sending "I told you so's" to the group that won that decision.

And Schlenk isn't the lead dog any more as a result of that.

[JayBirdHawk]

39 minutes ago, bleachkit said:

We have zero cap space as of now. Trades are our only avenue for improvement. 

TMLE and the Justin Hiliday TPE.

We 'improved' the team at the trade deadline using the Huerter TPE to obtain Saddiq Bey.

[JayBirdHawk]

19 minutes ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

 

( Capologists, check the official numbers on that.  If Bogi and Hunter were free agents, and signed by someone else, how much cap space would the Hawks have? )

We are currently at $170 million for our 15 players. Minus DH and Bogi, we'd be at $132 million, $4 million below the Salary Cap of $136 million.......so still not enough actual capspace to sign FAs.

[JayBirdHawk]

5 hours ago, kg01 said:

On a total other note, my stomach is troubled by @Sothron's patent refusal to heed my hostage demands.  He needs to get me Naz Reid if he ever wants to see this plush unicorn I stole from his man(sic) cave again.  I've already sent a tuft of rainbow fur as 'proof of life'.  What more does he want? 

Sorry @kg01

 

 

[Bigjmw]

That looks to be decent projection for OO.

[JayBirdHawk]

....and just like that, it's over...for Now .

 

 

[Final_quest]

If Naz Reid were on the Hawks guys would be saying $20M/year is just the going rate for backup centers of his caliber. 

[bleachkit]

8 minutes ago, Final_quest said:

If Naz Reid were on the Hawks guys would be saying $20M/year is just the going rate for backup centers of his caliber. 

One of the drawbacks of being a "player's organization" is we have to overpay or at least slightly overpay guys to keep that rep. But giving everyone 20+ per is coming back to bite us. 

[Diesel]

16 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

....and just like that, it's over...for Now .

 

 

I didn't know that Harris was a star??

[Final_quest]

3 minutes ago, bleachkit said:

One of the drawbacks of being a "player's organization" is we have to overpay or at least slightly overpay guys to keep that rep. But giving everyone 20+ per is coming back to bite us. 

And people want our payroll to be one of the highest while mostly having average players.  It feels like people care more about us paying the tax than having a roster and salaries that makes sense.  

[Spud2nique]

56 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

Sorry @kg01

 

 

You broke my… KG’S heart! 

[Spud2nique]

34 minutes ago, Diesel said:

I didn't know that Harris was a star??

That’s makes two of us. He’s Channing Frye’s cousin, that’s all I know.

[kg01]

1 hour ago, JayBirdHawk said:

....and just like that, it's over...for Now .

 

 

Is this why @Sothron won't look me in the eyes the past few days?

Sprinkles the unicorn now sleeps with the fishes .... 

24 minutes ago, Spud2nique said:

You broke my… KG’S heart! 

Noooooooooo!!!!! Whyyy?!?

.... can he be traded?

Keep hope alive.