2023-24 Insider Information Thread

[Gray Mule]

7 hours ago, Sothron said:

There is only two options at this point:

The FO makes use of the TPE to make this team better at either the PF or some other upgrade in the front court.

That's the best case option.

The other option: this was just a pure salary dump and the most we can hope for is a small trade to take back, say, Delon Wright in part of the TPW where we avoid the LT...or we simply do nothing. We just subtract JC and go forward with what we got. 

I just can't see them doing the second option. It would be a PR nightmare.

True, it would be a PR nightmare if the Hawks have a terrible losing season after doing nothing.

But, on the other hand, if the team has a much better winning season, all is forgiven.  

If JC explodes with his new team, watch out!  We Hawk fans will cry out.  If he doesn't, we will quietly let him go.

While it's sad we have to lose JC, the real problem has been paying too much $$$ payroll for the results.

[thecampster]

I think the important thing to realize is they didn't just clear up $23 million this year. This deal gives them increasing flexibility for 3 years. John was the 2nd highest paid player and commanded 17% of the cap. No progress possible with that hanging over their heads. If he blows up in Utah and Jalen lays an egg, I'll stick to my guns and say this was the right move, right now.

[Hawkish]

I just don’t anticipate any young player regressing developmentally under Snyder.  Jalen’s ROI on a rookie contract is going to help us move on from this recent trade.  Although a different player, Griffin will similarly help us put the Huerter trade to bed.  I understand the position that maybe the trades didn’t maximize assets. We will never know for certain.

[AHF]

1 hour ago, NBASupes said:

If a trade is made before the 6th, Atlanta can simply add it into the Utah deal framework. 

Very true but then we aren't talking about the TPE at all.  The TPE will only be created when the Utah deal is completed.

[kg01]

8 hours ago, Sothron said:

There is only two options at this point:

The FO makes use of the TPE to make this team better at either the PF or some other upgrade in the front court.

That's the best case option.

The other option: this was just a pure salary dump and the most we can hope for is a small trade to take back, say, Delon Wright in part of the TPW where we avoid the LT...or we simply do nothing. We just subtract JC and go forward with what we got. 

I just can't see them doing the second option. It would be a PR nightmare.

When nottadayum thing happens, they'll pivot to 'ooooh look we gotta big ol' TPE ... we gonna sign everybody at buyout season.  Jus' you wait ...'.

And soth, although you failed miserably in the 'get kg Naz reid' campaign, I'm willing to give you a chance at redemption. 

We need you to meet up with your Hawks insider and punch him in the belly for not giving you/us a heads up on this Collins deal.  I mean, I was literally working dutifully when I happened upon the news.  If I were driving, I might've t-boned a bus full of nuns or something.  Would that make him happy?  Well?  Will it? 

[Spud2nique]

4 minutes ago, kg01 said:

punch him in the belly

[Dean Walker]

 

[JeffS17]

29 minutes ago, AHF said:

Very true but then we aren't talking about the TPE at all.  The TPE will only be created when the Utah deal is completed.

But to Supes point, that is really the only way we make any kind of splashy trade.  Bringing in a player under $25M that sends us into the tax has about a 0.000001% chance likelihood.  The only situation where we actually go into the tax is if we land a big fish and it's [probably] a part of the Collins trade framework. 

So all the buzz about this TPE being some grand consolation prize is pretty meaningless, no?  Who really thinks we're going to go grab some mediocre player that sends us marginally into the tax?  If we were going to do that, we wouldn't have traded Collins in the first place.

[kg01]

24 minutes ago, Dean Walker said:

 

I can't, for the life of me, understand why Hawks management don't see that having this bargain basement, cheap-a** reputation is TERRIBLE FOR BUSINESS!

[macdaddy]

2 minutes ago, kg01 said:

I can't, for the life of me, understand why Hawks management don't see that having this bargain basement, cheap-a** reputation is TERRIBLE FOR BUSINESS!

No matter how you spin it, we've now traded 2 of the better first rounders that we tanked to get at ages 24 and 25.   And gotten one first and one second round pick for them.   That's poor team building.  

[KB21]

TPE candidate?  Bojan Bogdanovic Contract, Salary Cap Details & Breakdowns | Spotrac

[thecampster]

3 minutes ago, macdaddy said:

No matter how you spin it, we've now traded 2 of the better first rounders that we tanked to get at ages 24 and 25.   And gotten one first and one second round pick for them.   That's poor team building.  

This!!!  When tanking, a number of us begged for a pivot, not a tank. This is why. Yes we got Trae, but Cam, Huerter, Collins now all gone.  Most NBA Champs don't tank their way there. Culture, development, savvy trades.

[KB21]

1 minute ago, thecampster said:

This!!!  When tanking, a number of us begged for a pivot, not a tank. This is why. Yes we got Trae, but Cam, Huerter, Collins now all gone.  Most NBA Champs don't tank their way there. Culture, development, savvy trades.

[Afro]

9 minutes ago, macdaddy said:

No matter how you spin it, we've now traded 2 of the better first rounders that we tanked to get at ages 24 and 25.   And gotten one first and one second round pick for them.   That's poor team building.  

This feels like 2 separate issues though. The asset management is one thing. That's been a mess for years. 

The financial side is another. I get the "AH THEY'RE SO CHEAP" stuff. I do. But at the same time.....do fans really want to go in the tax for John Collins? Collins is a very good player, but is not worth that on *this* team. His role is diminished. To improve his role you would have to remove/change other pieces. Is that what some wanted? Do you want to bury JJ behind Bey and Collins while also paying Collins $25 million(and LT)? 

This roster has been together for awhile, albeit under some pretty terrible coaching. If you keep everyone and everything the same you can't afford to make any changes. Do we really think the roster yesterday was a title contender *this* year? You have one year before you'd have to make other changes in regards to OO, DJ, and Bey. 

I just have a hard time understanding what fans *wanted* the team to do here(outside of going back 3 years to get real value from Collins)? 

Edited June 27, 2023 by Afro

[Afro]

6 minutes ago, KB21 said:

TPE candidate?  Bojan Bogdanovic Contract, Salary Cap Details & Breakdowns | Spotrac

That's the one that stood out to me on the sub 25 mill list, but I don't know why the Pistons would do that. Legitimately don't know lol. They don't really need the money do they? 

[macdaddy]

4 minutes ago, thecampster said:

This!!!  When tanking, a number of us begged for a pivot, not a tank. This is why. Yes we got Trae, but Cam, Huerter, Collins now all gone.  Most NBA Champs don't tank their way there. Culture, development, savvy trades.

Well that's not exactly what i was saying but i get your point.  I think tanking was the right move and we did it very well actually.   We hit on a really good percentage of our draft picks and got a superstar out of it.   You can't ask for more than that.   We also made the right moves when we went out and got Bogi and Gallo and Lou to add to our young guys and look what happened?  We were a contending team in a short period. 

Then the architect of it all got demoted, we tightened the purse strings, got worried about the tax, argued internally about direction and surprise!  it all went to crap.   

So it wasn't the tank that was the problem.  It worked great.  It was Hawks org doing Hawks org stuff. 

[Watchman]

6 minutes ago, Afro said:

This feels like 2 separate issues though. The asset management is one thing. That's been a mess for years. 

The financial side is another. I get the "AH THEY'RE SO CHEAP" stuff. I do. But at the same time.....do fans really want to go in the tax for John Collins? Collins is a very good player, but is not worth that on *this* team. His role is diminished. To improve his role you would have to remove/change other pieces. Is that what some wanted? Do you want to bury JJ behind Bey and Collins while also paying Collins $25 million(and LT)? 

This roster has been together for awhile, albeit under some pretty terrible coaching. If you keep everyone and everything the same you can't afford to make any changes. Do we really think the roster yesterday was a title contender? You have one year before you'd have to make other changes in regards to OO, DJ, and Bey. 

I just have a hard time understanding what fans *wanted* the team to do here(outside of going back 3 years to get real value from Collins)? 

1.  Give Quin a chance to set up a real offense.  2.  Convince John to have finger surgery to correct the problems it causes.

[JeffS17]

I think our root issues are two-fold given the tanking route:

• Handed out big contracts before players earned them
• Player development was sorely lacking

These two issues are pretty interrelated.

[Afro]

1 minute ago, Watchman said:

1.  Give Quin a chance to set up a real offense.  2.  Convince John to have finger surgery to correct the problems it causes.

So what do you do with JJ? I'm just not sure I see this as some great detriment to the future of the Hawks. They have, at least, 2 very good options to fill Collins minutes. So why go into the tax for a player who isnt a need? 

Again, Im fully with yall about the value of this trade, but that ship sailed 3 years ago. Financially, do y'all really want them to go into the tax for Collins? And then next year have to dump him for probably even less(attaching picks TO him) so you can pay the guys you have to like DJ and OO? 

[KB21]

9 minutes ago, Afro said:

That's the one that stood out to me on the sub 25 mill list, but I don't know why the Pistons would do that. Legitimately don't know lol. They don't really need the money do they? 

Not sure. It looks like they could simply cut him if they wanted to save money.  His contract is guaranteed for $2 million this season.  They may want an asset along with the TPE, but Bojan is a great fit for what Quin wants to do.