2023-24 Insider Information Thread

[bird_dirt]

6 hours ago, Sothron said:

I am trying very hard not to put this in terms that would be nothing but a headache and a distraction on this forum. If you think you know what I am getting at then you get one of the main reasons why Ressler made that decision. 

I really would rather we as a fanbase move on from Luka/Trae. It happened. I hate that it did but it did. We still have a superstar PG out of it and the best player since Nique to play in Atlanta. I will take THAT 100% of the time.

This is the last time we had a high pick and traded down for a good player and additional assets. 
Despite how good Trae has been, Luka is the better of the two, and people still can’t move on from it. People will be talking about that trade for the rest of their careers. 
This is why I don’t want the Hawks to trade their pick this year. Can you imagine how insufferable the noise would be if they trade the first number one pick in the team’s history and they player goes on the be the best player? 
 

[Jody23]

7 minutes ago, bird_dirt said:

This is the last time we had a high pick and traded down for a good player and additional assets. 
Despite how good Trae has been, Luka is the better of the two, and people still can’t move on from it. People will be talking about that trade for the rest of their careers. 
This is why I don’t want the Hawks to trade their pick this year. Can you imagine how insufferable the noise would be if they trade the first number one pick in the team’s history and they player goes on the be the best player? 
 

Pretty much this.  When the Hawks have traded down or out of a high pick, they haven't gotten the best value.  With that history, if they do it with the number one pick, they're going to get killed for it.  It seems the majority of the Hawks fanbase has already decided who the pick should be and the consensus of draft analysts also agree.

[AHF]

9 minutes ago, bird_dirt said:

This is the last time we had a high pick and traded down for a good player and additional assets. 
Despite how good Trae has been, Luka is the better of the two, and people still can’t move on from it. People will be talking about that trade for the rest of their careers. 
This is why I don’t want the Hawks to trade their pick this year. Can you imagine how insufferable the noise would be if they trade the first number one pick in the team’s history and they player goes on the be the best player? 
 

It will be the same mess regardless if we pass on a guy who becomes a star.  The key is getting it right.  Trading down is a disaster when you give up the better player ala Philly drafting Mikal Bridges and then trading him to take Zhaire Smith and a future pick (Tre Mann).  Trading down is an amazing stroke of genius when you still get the best player ala Boston trading the #1 pick and then taking Jason Tatum at #3 and it doesn't matter than Romeo Langford (the player taken with the additional pick they got) was a bust.  Another example of a historically great trade down was the Mavs trading Robert "Tractor" Traylor for Dirk Nowitzki and Pat Garrity (notably, Garrity ended his career with almost 50% more Win Shares than Traylor did by himself so adding in HOF/MVP Dirk made that something I bet people complained about on Bucks boards for literally decades).

Get the right player and the rest is window dressing.  Pass on a better player and you are dealing with massive regret unless you get a good one who is close to the optimal player and then you will still have people complaining because there is still a gap between them.

[JeffS17]

7 minutes ago, AHF said:

It will be the same mess regardless if we pass on a guy who becomes a star.  The key is getting it right.  Trading down is a disaster when you give up the better player ala Philly drafting Mikal Bridges and then trading him to take Zhaire Smith and a future pick (Tre Mann).  Trading down is an amazing stroke of genius when you still get the best player ala Boston trading the #1 pick and then taking Jason Tatum at #3 and it doesn't matter than Romeo Langford (the player taken with the additional pick they got) was a bust.  Another example of a historically great trade down was the Mavs trading Robert "Tractor" Traylor for Dirk Nowitzki and Pat Garrity (notably, Garrity ended his career with almost 50% more Win Shares than Traylor did by himself so adding in HOF/MVP Dirk made that something I bet people complained about on Bucks boards for literally decades).

Get the right player and the rest is window dressing.  Pass on a better player and you are dealing with massive regret unless you get a good one who is close to the optimal player and then you will still have people complaining because there is still a gap between them.

Basically this.  Can't imagine the stress Landry going through right now lol

[AHF]

3 minutes ago, JeffS17 said:

Basically this.  Can't imagine the stress Landry going through right now lol

He has a ton on his plate between what needs to be done with the existing roster and getting this pick right.  Really exciting opportunity but there is no hiding if we don't get it right.  I'm sure he doesn't want to go down with the GMs who took Kandi, Kwame, Bennett, Bargnani, Fultz, etc. at #1.

He is going to chart this team's path for the next 5 years at the least and the range of potential outcomes is massively wide.

[KB21]

50 minutes ago, macdaddy said:

Luka, who everyone thinks is the greatest, no miss prospect since Lebron, was passed over by 3 teams and folks don't believe that he wasn't threatening to stay in Europe if he didn't get his way?   In the best draft of the last 20 years teams can't throw away a top 3 pick if him refusing to play is even a remote possibility.  

Particularly with the connection he had with Igor with the Suns that year and Vlade Divac with the Kings.  

[JeffS17]

9 minutes ago, AHF said:

He has a ton on his plate between what needs to be done with the existing roster and getting this pick right.  Really exciting opportunity but there is no hiding if we don't get it right.  I'm sure he doesn't want to go down with the GMs who took Kandi, Kwame, Bennett, Bargnani, Fultz, etc. at #1.

He is going to chart this team's path for the next 5 years at the least and the range of potential outcomes is massively wide.

This would be the most fun time of the year to be in the front office imo, would love to get in on the scenario modeling at least related to the cap outcomes

[KB21]

Here's the thing that irks me about this discussion.  We have some fans who act like there is this drastic gap between Luka and Trae, and that simply isn't the case.  That narrative is bore out of a tremendous bias against Trae for whatever reason.  The fact of the matter is, Luka and Trae are two of the three best shot creators in the entire NBA.

[JeffS17]

7 minutes ago, KB21 said:

That narrative is bore out of a tremendous bias against Trae for whatever reason. 

It's because Trae's not attractive and I'll die on that hill.  Atrractiveness bias is very real and one of the strongest biases.  

[TheNorthCydeRises]

11 hours ago, Sothron said:

I've already detailed what happened with Luka/Trae. Ressler screwed us over by listening to the marketing dept over his basketball people. He and Cuban hashed out the deal on draft day because Travis was 100% going to draft Luka if he fell to us. Then Ressler went over his head and made the trade on his own. Ressler also vetoed deals we had for Millsap and Horford as well as deals to trade Red Velvet and Collins.

Ressler is a nightmare owner. He blatantly interferes with his basketball front office and is cheap. It is the worst of all worlds outside of his trying to relocate the team.

Do people really think our situation here would be different, if we had Luka instead of Trae?

Look at how many times Dallas had to reset just in the last 4 years, just to find the right chemistry of players to surround Luka with.  Meanwhile, we re-upped on all of our guys with so-called "team friendly" deals.  If we did the same if we had Luka here, how does that change anything?  If Luka was here, does Schlenk and Ressler sign off on bringing Kyrie here?

I agree with Sothron's assessment of Ressler.  If you're an owner, and you've hired people to evaluate basketball, let them do their damn job and stay out the way.

 

[theheroatl]

2 hours ago, bleachkit said:

Schlenk seems like a very honest, strait forward guy. I would trust his version of events over Ressler. None have spoken publicly of course. 

Yeah I agree. I think the dude just wanted to continue his idea of success from Golden State to Atlanta but that wasn’t allowed to play out which is nuts.

[Spud2nique]

18 minutes ago, JeffS17 said:

This would be the most fun time of the year to be in the front office imo, would love to get in on the scenario modeling at least related to the cap outcomes

Hell ya! I’d love to be a fly on Landry’s food near a wall.

[kg01]

5 minutes ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

Do people really think our situation here would be different, if we had Luka instead of Trae?

Look at how many times Dallas had to reset just in the last 4 years, just to find the right chemistry of players to surround Luka with.  Meanwhile, we re-upped on all of our guys with so-called "team friendly" deals.  If we did the same if we had Luka here, how does that change anything?  If Luka was here, does Schlenk and Ressler sign off on bringing Kyrie here?

I agree with Sothron's assessment of Ressler.  If you're an owner, and you've hired people to evaluate basketball, let them do their damn job and stay out the way.

 

The success in Dallas isn't Luka, it's in the team they built around him.

The failure in Atlanta isn't Trae, it's in the team they built around him. 

[AHF]

25 minutes ago, JeffS17 said:

This would be the most fun time of the year to be in the front office imo, would love to get in on the scenario modeling at least related to the cap outcomes

One of the reasons I'm really glad we added a cap expert to the front office this year.

22 minutes ago, KB21 said:

Here's the thing that irks me about this discussion.  We have some fans who act like there is this drastic gap between Luka and Trae, and that simply isn't the case.  That narrative is bore out of a tremendous bias against Trae for whatever reason.  The fact of the matter is, Luka and Trae are two of the three best shot creators in the entire NBA.

I think Luka has objectively put up better numbers and had more success and there is a significant gap in terms of All-NBA and similar recognition.  But I feel mostly the way you do that both have been home run picks for their teams and are true stand out talents with a similar mix of strengths and weaknesses.  There isn't a drastic gap.

12 minutes ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

Do people really think our situation here would be different, if we had Luka instead of Trae?

Look at how many times Dallas had to reset just in the last 4 years, just to find the right chemistry of players to surround Luka with.  Meanwhile, we re-upped on all of our guys with so-called "team friendly" deals.  If we did the same if we had Luka here, how does that change anything?  If Luka was here, does Schlenk and Ressler sign off on bringing Kyrie here?

I agree with Sothron's assessment of Ressler.  If you're an owner, and you've hired people to evaluate basketball, let them do their damn job and stay out the way.

 

I think Dallas has done a better job building around Luka and been more willing to swing on guys like Kyrie which have benefited Luka's W/L and playoff results.  Adding Irving and Lively over the last year did a ton to shore up their roster.

On Ressler, I've made that case for years.  Hire your basketball people.  Let them make the basketball decisions.  Fire them if you don't like the basketball decisions but don't step in yourself.  Hire their replacement and then let them make the basketball decisions.  Owners making basketball decisions is like Senators weighing in on space shuttle design because they are setting NASA's budget.  They aren't qualified for the job and just get in the way of success when they insert themselves.

[JeffS17]

10 minutes ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

Meanwhile, we re-upped on all of our guys with so-called "team friendly" deals.

 this is it right here.  Schlenk might have wanted Luka but he also went and overpaid guys he overvalued, likely because they were his draft picks, but that speculation is irrelevant-- he handed out contracts based on potential, not performance.

[phoostal]

9 hours ago, Sothron said:

Tony likes Clingan but it is early and he is saying he's going to listen to the front office. 

This is my issue as a Hawks fan. Ressler.  He interferes too much. 

It's going to be hard to be a hawks fan until we get a new owner. 

He's choosing who we draft, what trades we make and refuses to put money into the team. 

Really there is no hope unfortunately.  Don't get me wrong I'll be pulling for them and hoping they do well.   But there is no future with Ressler in charge. 

The only way I see this changing is new ownership or if he has really changed.   But he has supposedly change before and nothing ever changed. 

[Spud2nique]

Just now, JeffS17 said:

 this is it right here.  Schlenk might have wanted Luka but he also went and overpaid guys he overvalued, likely because they were his draft picks, but that speculation is irrelevant-- he handed out contracts based on potential, not performance.

Schlenk wants to repeat the pattern in GS. He saw all the bandwagon kids get Curry jerseys and could relate to a smaller stature dude, he saw this in Trae. Schlenk wanted Trae. 
 

Schlenk paid his own picks and doubled up on the team’s chemistry rising as he locked up the players he drafted with contracts based on their future potential.

 

[Jody23]

If the Hawks miss on this pick, they're gonna get criticized for it.  If they trade down and miss or get the shorter end of the stick AGAIN (see 2018), they're REALLY gonna get criticized.  Landry is in a tough spot because Ressler has the final say.  Ressler could disregard the front office for his own agenda with the pick and we would never really know, while Landry would get all of the slander.

[Sothron]

2 hours ago, JeffS17 said:

Not to discredit you personally, but unless your source is Landry himself, I cannot imagine this being the type of info we can take without a massive grain of salt.

Key word is early. Remember, no one in the world thought we would actually win the lottery. every team has a big board of prospects but really focuses on the range you think you are going to be in the draft. No one had done in depth serious looks at the top of the draft. Tony Ressler does keep up with basketball. I think he's a lot of things I'd rather not say in public but he at least does keep up with basketball. His liking Clingan and his potential fit on our team is really not that bad of a take for anyone to make.

That being said, I was told Ressler is going to go by the FO this time on the final decision on what to do with the pick. They have a lot of work to do so Tony Ressler's early liking of a player is just that. I wouldn't read too far into it frankly and I say that as someone that is not a Tony Ressler fan.

[theheroatl]

I think a Sarr/Sheppard combo next to Trae is deadly. Don’t know how they get #3 or #4 to get Sheppard but it’s a dream scenario.

 

With JJ all you need a starting Center and this lineup is awesome

Trae 

Reed Sheppard

Jalen Johnson

Sarr

Center

A Nurkic/Vucevic/Lopez or any other could suffice for Center but that team has shooting, defense, and length in the front court

Edited May 24 by theheroatl