2023-24 Insider Information Thread

[Hawkmoor]

3 minutes ago, thecampster said:

I made a post about this a few years ago on the site. Talking about the goal of every offense is to get in the lane, cut the lane. All plays are built off of that.  Corner 3 = kick from player who penetrated the lane (sometimes a few passes later), lob play, requires a pick n roll drive to the lane or the lane to vacate on a double team, pick n pop = works because the defender shades off the pop to stop the penetration.  

Take away the dominant hand of the ball carrier to deny the lane of give the dominant hand if it drives the ball handler to the 6th defender.

Second I saw you posted this, I was like 90% of those reading need this.

Excellent post.  You get it.  Like you just posted, the guard in the middle keeps every option on the table.  He can play quarterback from right there and go into his reads.  You force baseline and dictate to HIM how its gonna go.

[thecampster]

This is the main reason the post up is not dead. A solid post player (see D.Howard 10 years ago), instantly puts the ball in the hands of the decision maker in mid, forcing the defense to collapse. Boom kick to wing or paste the cutter.

This is why Joker is so dominant catching a pass at the elbows, top of the key. The whole defense has to move. Joker catching the ball at the stripe is no different than guard penetration.

By extension, having a drop coverage large big instantly takes away everything within 8 feet covering 1/2 of the mid.  This is why having an athletic 3-D cutter is so lethal.  Certain things work in every era, they just start looking different. Go back and watch tape from the 50's/60's. They're running the same plays, they just suck at jumping/dribbling.  Basketball is not a sport, its math, very simple math. Win the game of angles and you typically win the game.

[thecampster]

As long as we're doing this, assuming most people know what drop coverage actually is and the right way to play it is probably stupid.  2 minute video on how to play drop coverage (and why its effective).

 

[Mikey]

4 hours ago, NBASupes said:

There is a lot going on behind the scenes. A lot. There is even a chance where Atlanta ends up with 1 and 3. There is a lot going on. A lot. 

I'll say this, Murray trade talks are extremely hot and there are teams interested that just wasn't even close or interested at the trade deadline 

There is a reason why Clingan has the interest he has. He's seen as the #1 or #2 best center on the market with Claxton and many see Claxton returning to Brooklyn so the gap between the next player regardless of draft, trade, or FA is considered massive. Regardless of what I personally think, Hartenstein is seen as the #3 guy and after that, it's all over the place, you got Edey, Jonas, CC, or even going potential like Missi or Ware that's the next option and the gap is seen as massive to execs. That's why Clingan is so high with teams.

While teams thought Atlanta was gonna tank and trade Trae to SA and it was a done deal. They have come to realize Atlanta isn't open to trading Trae without a clear overpay like Mikal and Brooklyn. From what I've gathered, no one is even close. That Trae market is similar to Murray which is two quality 1sts. Of course, Atlanta had no interest and even then, they want to make it work with Trae due to their personal love for him as well as business most importantly. 

Capela has a lot of interest just due to a dead market. A lot of teams have called about OO but it seems like outside of NO which has wings Atlanta covets, it doesn't seem like he's been in trade talks. There are 8 teams calling about CC. Last year, it was just Houston who had a deal with us and pulled out because Cam Whitmore fell to them. Teams more than ever need multiple centers so he's getting a lot of interest. 

It's no lie that Atlanta is targeting Clingan. Maybe it's a tad overrated based on what I've got this morning. He's not the #1 player on their current big board, Risacher is. He's not even #2 like I thought, Sarr is. He's just the #1 center and as I just mentioned, many teams see the gap between Claxton and Clingan to the next tier as massive regardless if I personally have Edey as the top overall guy. I was told that sentiment isn't shared by any team which I felt could change due to some of the private workouts. That said, I was told he is in the top 3 of some team's BB which makes me feel like okay, not everyone is a dipshit. 

Right now, Sarr is the top guy for most bad teams with Sheppard being the top guy for some other bad teams. Houston is the only team with Sheppard as the top guy and they aren't bad. Risacher is the #1 guy for most average to great teams. He's clearly the top dawg. No surprise, teams like wings who are NBA ready, can shoot, play smart, defend multiple positions and can play off the ball at a high level. Whereas bad teams want potential stars. They want a potential building block even if they are raw, they got time and patience. I do believe teams are higher on Risacher than I am. Based on the Intel on Sarr, many question his floor like I do. The Sarr takes are a lot closer to my takes than Hawksquawk.net or Hawks Twitter/Reddit. 

Also, Atlanta is not close to making a decision at 1. I was told it's going go be a more rigorous process this year than it was during the Trae draft just due to the players outside of Castle being cooperative to the Hawks. So Sarr fans, at first Sarr was one, then the execs and coaches got involved and he's now #2 with Clingan getting #2 pushes from the coaches. That said, I haven't heard he's done workouts yet and I've heard the Hawks are planning on multiple meetings with all the top prospects.

Trae has been a lean from what I've heard for Clingan. He wants a younger center who can set great screens, run the PnR, and make the game easier for him on both ends. Not just him making the game easier for them. 

Also, don't count Edey out of Atlanta. I haven't heard of any workouts or workout plans but Atlanta had seriously scouted him and Atlanta could be in the lottery twice is what I've heard. They want a center Edey is high on their BB. So while the Hawks best decision is unlikely, I am hoping it happens even when I know it's a long shot. 

Sarr has already worked out with the hawks once. And I can tell you now… rule out edey. It’s not happening

[kg01]

14 minutes ago, thecampster said:

If you're looking for hype, drama and unsupported opinions....I'd look elsewhere.

 

Lies detected .... 

10 minutes ago, Hawkmoor said:

Not directed at you since you say you don't disagree with what I said.:

Coaches are copycat just like the general populace.  In the NFL they don't run the ball anymore and running backs are "obsolete" because.... they CHOOSE not to run the ball.  The NBA is no different.  Drop coverage has become "the thing" and now suddenly "Ice coverge" is obsolete?  I'm not buying that. The Knicks were second best in the NBA in "points allowed" this season so there goes the "Thibs don't know what he is doing" argument.

 You can mix it up also.  I prefer "Ice" coverage because you funnel the ball handler to the baseline, effectively cutting off half the court or more.  I believe coaches prefer to copycat drop coverage and hard hedging because a neantherdal can figure it out.  Its your function as a defensive coordinator and head coach to get players to understand the nuances of the Ice Coverage.

To be clear, the commentaries I'm referring to predated this past year.  I recall them lamenting that Thibs' coverages were easily defeated.  Perhaps that was personnel driven? 

[kg01]

12 minutes ago, Mikey said:

Sarr has already worked out with the hawks once. And I can tell you now… rule out edey. It’s not happening

You tryna break hearts?

[KB21]

2 minutes ago, kg01 said:

You tryna break hearts?

There will be a few on here whose feelings will be hurt in 2 and a half weeks when they see how the league actually views him.  

Edited June 9 by KB21

[ShayD]

4 hours ago, NBASupes said:

Also, Atlanta is not close to making a decision at 1. I was told it's going go be a more rigorous process this year than it was during the Trae draft just due to the players outside of Castle being cooperative to the Hawks.

They better do all their homework in evaluating and working out all these prospects. Hornets did a good job last year, their fans and media were questioning them close to the draft and on draft night when they preferred Miller over Scoot. Some were saying Scoot was close to generational, when he was balling out in gleague at 18 years old and would go first in many other draft classes and if there was no Wemby he was consensus no1 pick.

I know it's still early for him but this is why you have to do your homework. He is a project, he had many weaknesses to his game that fans/media were willing to ignore but the Hornets FO chose not to. And well I guess having Lamelo made the decision easier.

Same could be said about Orlando. When Jabari Smith was consensus No1 until days before the draft and then betting odds were changing and saying Magic were going to take Paolo. Right now it's obvious who the better pick/player was, although Smith is a good player as well, you have to do your homework to get the better franchise changing player, especially at the number 1 pick with the amount of salary commitment and expectations. And btw I don't think it's Risacher.

[Mikey]

17 minutes ago, kg01 said:

You tryna break hearts?

Yes

[Hawkmoor]

1 hour ago, thecampster said:

As long as we're doing this, assuming most people know what drop coverage actually is and the right way to play it is probably stupid.  2 minute video on how to play drop coverage (and why its effective).

 

The way I look at drop coverage is you are just placing the off ball screen defender into the position he would've been in at the end of a hard hedge.  Slow defenders like Clingan/Edey don't have to worry about setting the hard hedge and having the quickness/speed to get back to the middle.  Teams with bigs that can shoot (most NBA teams these days) can just pick and pop.  Kevin Love'e entire career was based on it.  Gallinari would do it.  You can drop all day. Please give me that if I have bigs who can shoot.  A point guard with a fly hook pass is special in pick and pop also.

 

 

Edited June 9 by Hawkmoor

[kg01]

26 minutes ago, Mikey said:

Yes

It's necessary but I've said too much.... 

[terrell]

56 minutes ago, KB21 said:

There will be a few on here whose feelings will be hurt in 2 and a half weeks when they see how the league actually views him.  

So could we get him in the 2nd if we buy a pick? lol

[Hawkmoor]

5 hours ago, NBASupes said:

Trae has been a lean from what I've heard for Clingan. He wants a younger center who can set great screens, run the PnR, and make the game easier for him on both ends. Not just him making the game easier for them. 

Therein IS the problem.  Trae and Hawks ownership are a perfect marriage.  They ain't trying to win by any means necessary and Trae wants everything to be about HIM.  The NBA could've kept that first pick of the draft and given it to a team more appreciative and the Hawks could've sat Nate McMillan and Trae Young down for a talk and kept the loot they gave Quin Synder.  Trae/Clingan/Edey is a unproven Trae/Capela.  This stuff is BEYOND laughable. They could've kept McMillan, keep Capela and not have been in the lottery and accomplished the SAME THING and quite possibly gonna be worst with Clingan/Edey.

Edited June 9 by Hawkmoor

[KB21]

1 hour ago, Hawkmoor said:

Therein IS the problem.  Trae and Hawks ownership are a perfect marriage.  They ain't trying to win by any means necessary and Trae wants everything to be about HIM.  The NBA could've kept that first pick of the draft and given it to a team more appreciative and the Hawks could've sat Nate McMillan and Trae Young down for a talk and kept the loot they gave Quin Synder.  Trae/Clingan/Edey is a unproven Trae/Capela.  This stuff is BEYOND laughable. They could've kept McMillan, keep Capela and not have been in the lottery and accomplished the SAME THING and quite possibly gonna be worst with Clingan/Edey.

[I strongly disagree.]
 

First, Nate McMillan isn’t even near Quin’s stratosphere as a coach.  
 

Second, Trae isn’t all about himself.  
 

Third, Zach Edey is not being considered by the Hawks.  

[Hawkmoor]

1 hour ago, KB21 said:

I’ve seen some stupid shit recently but this takes the cake.  
 

First, Nate McMillan isn’t even near Quin’s stratosphere as a coach.  
 

Second, Trae isn’t all about himself.  
 

Third, Zach Edey is not being considered by the Hawks.  

[]

A high school coach can run pick and roll.

All evidence on and off the court is Trae is about himself, including quitting IN GAMES.

I guarantee you the Hawks are doing their due diligence on every big in the draft.

[bird_dirt]

1 hour ago, ShayD said:

They better do all their homework in evaluating and working out all these prospects. Hornets did a good job last year, their fans and media were questioning them close to the draft and on draft night when they preferred Miller over Scoot. Some were saying Scoot was close to generational, when he was balling out in gleague at 18 years old and would go first in many other draft classes and if there was no Wemby he was consensus no1 pick.

I know it's still early for him but this is why you have to do your homework. He is a project, he had many weaknesses to his game that fans/media were willing to ignore but the Hornets FO chose not to. And well I guess having Lamelo made the decision easier.

Same could be said about Orlando. When Jabari Smith was consensus No1 until days before the draft and then betting odds were changing and saying Magic were going to take Paolo. Right now it's obvious who the better pick/player was, although Smith is a good player as well, you have to do your homework to get the better franchise changing player, especially at the number 1 pick with the amount of salary commitment and expectations. And btw I don't think it's Risacher.

Scoot was overrated. He got exposed in the Gleague yet still got drafted high. Ron Holland is this year’s Scoot. 

[kg01]

19 minutes ago, bird_dirt said:

Scoot was overrated. He got exposed in the Gleague yet still got drafted high. Ron Holland is this year’s Scoot. 

Scoot out there looking like Haywood Workman 2.0.  I disagree on Holland ... but I can be swayed.  

[Sothron]

I wasn't supposed to say this but since Mikey has...we've already had one workout with Sarr and another is going to happen. I'm still hearing it is Risacher and Clingan/Sarr after. 

[KB21]

1 hour ago, Hawkmoor said:

[]

A high school coach can run pick and roll.

All evidence on and off the court is Trae is about himself, including quitting IN GAMES.

I guarantee you the Hawks are doing their due diligence on every big in the draft.

Now tell me which HS coach can invent a scheme called 5 slot to use a non shooting big to create space and improve the team’s shot diet from 27th in the league to 5th?

The stuff about Trae is made up.  Trae is all about winning.  

[KB21]

2 minutes ago, Sothron said:

I wasn't supposed to say this but since Mikey has...we've already had one workout with Sarr and another is going to happen. I'm still hearing it is Risacher and Clingan/Sarr after. 

If they have Risacher that high, I just don’t agree with it.  Risacher is the definition of average across the board.  Average size.  Average length.  Average shooting.  Average ball handling.  Average athlete.  Below average passer.  Average defense.  He doesn’t have a single elite trait.