2023-24 Insider Information Thread

[KB21]

Not trying to push for Risacher, but for those who feel like center is our biggest need, here you go:

This team is DESPERATE for a wing.  

[kg01]

37 minutes ago, bleachkit said:

Just nothing pops about Risacher. But you know half the NBA is comprised of tall guys that can shoot. He's tall, he can shoot. So that's the pick. 

Man that sounds like settling.   The gleague has plenty of tall guys that can shoot.   Should that be the standard?

This is the #1 pick we talkin' bout. 

[bleachkit]

1 minute ago, kg01 said:

Man that sounds like settling.   The gleague has plenty of tall guys that can shoot.   Should that be the standard?

This is the #1 pick we talkin' bout. 

Yea. We don't set the bar high around here. 

[kg01]

21 minutes ago, KB21 said:

This team is DESPERATE for a wing.  

Yeah but not starved for a mid-letic, length-starved, Landry Shamet clone of a wing.

Cmon, can I get points for 'mid-letic'?  Came up with that off the cuff. 

[kg01]

2 minutes ago, bleachkit said:

Yea. We don't set the bar high around here. 

Cmon buck up, bleachk.  You're good enough.  You're smart enough.  And, gosh darn it, people like you.  Well ... not all people but some do.  Some?

[KB21]

2 minutes ago, kg01 said:

Yeah but not starved for a mid-letic, length-starved, Landry Shamet clone of a wing.

Cmon, can I get points for 'mid-letic'?  Came up with that off the cuff. 

I agree some, but this is the issue.  NBA teams are not trading good wings.  If the choice is to overdraft Risacher or overpay for Ingram, they hen I’m drafting Risacher, whose shot diet is a better fit.  

[Packfill]

39 minutes ago, KB21 said:

Not trying to push for Risacher, but for those who feel like center is our biggest need, here you go:

This team is DESPERATE for a wing.  

I agree another wing is a desperate need for the Hawks.  My expectation is that they either draft one (Risacher presumably) or get one via a trade of DJM (DJM trade to get better fitting pieces around Trae and whomever the #1 pick is) and/or CC (if they draft a big, presumably Sarr or Clingan - Clingan in particular, they should move big to open up minutes for the draft pick).

[ABH]

9 hours ago, Hawkish said:

Things I like about Risacher from the little I see:

-Coordinated/body control

-Fluid/slippery

-Regardless of %, his shot form/sequence looks good 

I don’t see much creation, but that doesn’t mean he can’t. He may not have performed well at the combine, but he looks basketball/functionally athletic to me.  

He don't dunk lol

[bleachkit]

9 minutes ago, ABH said:

He don't dunk lol

Guy can't jump over a phone book, and we're taking him number one. Unbelievable.

[kg01]

30 minutes ago, KB21 said:

I agree some, but this is the issue.  NBA teams are not trading good wings.  If the choice is to overdraft Risacher or overpay for Ingram, they hen I’m drafting Risacher, whose shot diet is a better fit.  

This whole draft just pisses me off.  Of all the years to win(sic) the top pick, they had to give us this crap-bucket where we're all tryna rationalize taking these mid-1st level prospects at the top of the draft.  Smh 

[AHF]

13 hours ago, JayBirdHawk said:

Wait a minute, Reed wasn't a starter? How'd I miss that?

Because Calipari is stupid and didn't start his two best players.  I think he promised the starting spots to others and honored his word to put it more charitably but it was still to the detriment of the team that Sheperd and Dillingham didn't start.

 

12 hours ago, theheroatl said:

Where are you getting these 3P high school numbers from and do you have any player comps for highschool.

 

For instance, do you have Devin Booker's high school stats that are accurate.

 

This seems like a strawman argument.

 

 

Once again if you think averaging 40-50% 3P in his basketball playing so far with high school / college combined is an issue... SMH

A strawman pushback against the idea that Sheppard will be a generational shooter in the NBA is looking at his shooting numbers from the prior 4 years and noting that his college season was an outlier?  By what definition of the logical strawman fallacy does this qualify?  I am perplexed by this. 

As for the numbers, the numbers for most prominent high school players can be found online but there are some high schools that don't post the numbers.  As best I can tell, Moss Point (where Booker went to school) didnt.  You can find some references to his high school numbers in recruiting articles (like him having shot 39% from 3 as a Junior) and breakdowns for his senior numbers by places like KSR but I don't see a complete record like I do for Sheppard.  

My point is simply that 3pt% varies from season to season for most players.  Sheppard had an amazing freshman year in a bench role for UK.  If he turns out to be an amazing shooter in the NBA, I think it is common sense that he will draw more defensive attention than he did in college and from better defenders.  Expecting him to be a generational shooter is setting him up to fail, imo. 

Booker isn't a generational shooter - just a star shooter and that is perfectly fine.  Expecting Sheppard to meet or surpass Booker's numbers is a tall ask as Booker is both high % and highly prolific.  That is not to say that I don't think Sheppard can and should be an efficient shooter in the NBA.  To the contrary, I expect that.  But generational is as high a bar as you could expect.  I would say that Steph Curry is a generational shooter - highly prolific and highly efficient in a way that no one from his generation could match.  I would say that guys like Steve Kerr and Kyle Korver were not generational because they just weren't prolific enough even though they had amazing shooting efficiency.  So for me, I don't set the bar that high for my expectation for him but I will be rooting for him to surpass Steph Curry before his career is done.

There is a huge gap between thinking his shooting is "an issue" versus thinking that proclaiming him a "generational NBA shooter" is setting the bar too high.   His shooting is absolutely a strength.  But I don't expect 52% 3pt% in the NBA or anything like that.  I don't expect him to be a high volume guy at least early in his career.  I expect more of a strong combo guard type of role where he shoots the ball very effectively but isn't putting up 22 ppg like Booker in his second season or anything.  If he was 6'5'' instead of 6'1'' he would be a great potential partner for Trae or DJM in the backcourt.

 

[AHF]

10 hours ago, JTB said:

No sir…whoever we draft at #1 will be starter . Maybe not game 1 but by game 15 or early in the season that pick will be in the starting lineup.

THIS IS NOT THE NFL FOLKS….you don’t draft a top 5 player in the nba to play them off the bench.

So if Kobe was in the draft you pass on him with your top 5 pick because he only started 7 games in his first two seasons combined?  Or would you force him into the starting lineup instead of developing him off the bench like the Lakers did?  Either of those would be foolish, imo.  Starting a draft pick off the bench when he just finished his age 18 season is not a deal killer for me no matter where he is drafted.  

[benhillboy]

58 minutes ago, kg01 said:

Man that sounds like settling.   The gleague has plenty of tall guys that can shoot.   Should that be the standard?

This is the #1 pick we talkin' bout. 

I can’t subscribe to setting the bar low for a #1 pick either, regardless of draft class consensus.  Chet, Jaquez,, Podziemski, Wallace, and Lively all popped out the gate with Amen Thompson, Jackson-Davis, and Brandon Miller all showing great promise by the end of their campaigns.  Hell, AJ shot brilliantly as a rook before being nixed for strange/ unknown reasons.  If the Hawks actually select, he better be a stud and show it quickly.  He’s coming to a “vet laden” team, no excuses for Quinn not to get immediate payback on investment.  He’s had 100+ games to showcase poor defensive coaching and inability to foster a fit between two super talented guards, it’s time for him to actually earn some of that handsome salary.

Edited Tuesday at 01:05 PM by benhillboy

[deester11]

57 minutes ago, kg01 said:

Yeah but not starved for a mid-letic, length-starved, Landry Shamet clone of a wing.

Cmon, can I get points for 'mid-letic'?  Came up with that off the cuff. 

I gotcha KG. That was funny

[JeffS17]

I dont see how any rookie is going to get huge minutes, much less be a starter, next year. It took half the season for most of our vets to get comfortable in Quins defense.

[bird_dirt]

1 hour ago, KB21 said:

Not trying to push for Risacher, but for those who feel like center is our biggest need, here you go:

This team is DESPERATE for a wing.  

This is exactly why I’ve been looking at any suggestions for trading Hunter with serious skepticism. 
We had no good depth last season, and are even worse this season with Bey out. 

If they trade Dre, they will need to bring in 2 or 3 guys. If one is BI, PG, or Butler, then ZR rookie contract balances the avg cost for that position. 

[kg01]

17 minutes ago, benhillboy said:

I can’t subscribe to setting the bar low for a #1 pick either, regardless of draft class consensus.  Chet, Jaquez,, Podziemski, Wallace, and Lively all popped out the gate with Amen Thompson, Jackson-Davis, and Brandon Miller all showing great promise by the end of their campaigns.  Hell, AJ shot brilliantly as a rook before being nixed for strange/ unknown reasons.  If the Hawks actually select, he better be a stud and show it quickly.  He’s coming to a “vet laden” team, no excuses for Quinn not to get immediate payback on investment.  He’s had 100+ games to showcase poor defensive coaching and inability to foster a fit between two super talented guards, it’s time for him to actually earn some of that handsome salary.

Firm but fair.  Can't keep throwing his hands up and blaming personnel.  Sure you can't be great, but can you be above-average?  Not too much to ask.

3 minutes ago, JeffS17 said:

I dont see how any rookie is going to get huge minutes, much less be a starter, next year. It took half the season for most of our vets to get comfortable in Quins defense.

At some point he's gotta 'coach' tho.  If most of the team can't get it, it's not ok to just allow there to be crap on the court (play-wise) 3 years in a row.  Adjust.  He's got another full offseason.  Maybe work on contingencies?

To be clear, I'm a Quin fan (now) but the excuses of his system being too complex are ringing hollow for me. 

[txsting]

11 hours ago, Threezus said:

I have always found it so intriguing how 2 people can see the same thing and come to 2 completely different outcomes and thoughts on things.  This is not a knock on you or me saying you are wrong more so how i always have loved how people just are so different in views in any sport and how they see things.   You are like the complete 180 of me and my thought and views on the situation and things.  To me JJ has alot of similar play style to Lebron and honestly has even been training with him at times so it makes sense the similarities are there.   His %'s honestly are similar this last year to Lebron's avg at SF as well for his career at 35 to 36% from 3 and like 56 to 60% from 2.   Their is only 1 lebron and i highly doubt JJ will ever be in that same breath as a whole career.  But as far as playstyle and game he's got that trajectory as a 3.    I honestly see JJ much better suited as a big 3 with handles, passing, shooting, and attacking.  Much better than i see him as a 4 that has to bang with bigger 4's and centers all the time. 

As for Saar i think his game is a long 4 that can out rebound most 4's and defend any position although not as much for bigger Centers just yet.  I feel his handles, quickness, athleticism and descent rebounding would transition well to the 4 at the next level.   Would love to put a true stretch 5 next to him though that has good shooting and rebounding.

Will never expect to convert you on my side of things and you would never be able to convert me to yours    But always love seeing things from someone elses point of views when they are so far different and off from each other. 

i agree with this so much.  JJ doesn't have a future as a 4 like he would if he focuses on becoming the best 3 he can be.  Sarr is ideally a stretch 4 playing a perimeter oriented game on both ends.  Sometimes you could go smaller and have an extremely fast team by switching them to 4 and 5.  Sarr is versatile and I think the combination of skills that he has, the potential in his shooting, along with unicorn size makes him an undeniable prospect to consider at #1.

[KB21]

40 minutes ago, benhillboy said:

I can’t subscribe to setting the bar low for a #1 pick either, regardless of draft class consensus.  Chet, Jaquez,, Podziemski, Wallace, and Lively all popped out the gate with Amen Thompson, Jackson-Davis, and Brandon Miller all showing great promise by the end of their campaigns.  Hell, AJ shot brilliantly as a rook before being nixed for strange/ unknown reasons.  If the Hawks actually select, he better be a stud and show it quickly.  He’s coming to a “vet laden” team, no excuses for Quinn not to get immediate payback on investment.  He’s had 100+ games to showcase poor defensive coaching and inability to foster a fit between two super talented guards, it’s time for him to actually earn some of that handsome salary.

LOL!  This is a worse take than your take on Trae.  There has been absolutely nothing about Quin's coaching that has been bad.  

[txsting]

1 hour ago, KB21 said:

Not trying to push for Risacher, but for those who feel like center is our biggest need, here you go:

This team is DESPERATE for a wing.  

If we want to pump up the size on the wing, why do we not play JJ there?  Does that expose him athletically too much or something?