NBASupes Posted May 26 Report Share Posted May 26 (edited) 3 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said: I know you do. And it's still an awful value trade for #1. (Aaah, yes, the great WAR debate less we forget Montrezl's WAR) Your hyper focus on acquiring Edey is clouding your judgement in that you are willing to accept less value for the #1 pick since you have conceded there is no way in hell the Hawks are taking Edey at #1. Give me a good trade for 1. I am all ears Harrell is still the most impactful 6th man of all time Just because he became washed asap after that debate means nothing based on we were talking about his impact at that time. I am hyperfocus on getting Edey or Clingan. Other than that, this team is f***ed. Just trade Trae if you fail to land them. Edited May 26 by NBASupes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey Posted May 26 Report Share Posted May 26 47 minutes ago, Hawkish said: I agree. The coaching staff earns its pay by evolving a system to fit its players. Just curious, what would a Trae trade even look like? (Exclude the Spurs) Young player with promise 2-3 picks would be my guess Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member JayBirdHawk Posted May 26 Premium Member Report Share Posted May 26 24 minutes ago, NBASupes said: @JayBirdHawk I don't want to stay at #1. Give me a good trade down for the pick? There is no acceptable trade down from #1 past the #5 pick (unless you are significant talent boost), and that's even a stretch. Ideally #3 should be the cutoff. At #4, I'm only doing that if Spurs are returning one of our firsts and the swap as well. At #5, Detroit will need to include Asuar+. Beyond that.....it has to be young player(s) that can fit right into a slot of need with significant potential upside going forward (wether we keep or use in a subsequent trade). I'm not willingly underselling the value of #1 pick no matter what the experts think about the strength of the class. 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators AHF Posted May 26 Author Moderators Report Share Posted May 26 51 minutes ago, Mikey said: In this draft more than any I think it’s so unpredictable to call any of these players a star or bust. Think fit will matter way more than it does in any year for majority of these guys. Frankly don’t see any of these guys at the top being stars anyways. The point that makes me mad is people talk about fit. The player you are drafting is for THE ENTIRE TEAM. Not just Trae. Trae in theory could be gone in 4 weeks you aren’t drafting a player to ONLY fit with him (which edey doesn’t at all either lmao). You are taking the player for the entire roster The Hawks need to pick a lane and fit means different things depending on the lane they pick. If you are trading Trae, then fit for that remaining team is different than if you are trading DJM. If you are trading both of them then fit is again very different and now maybe Topic is in the conversation. If you are keeping both for the longterm I don’t think there is any fit that covers that mess so I’m not considering that scenario. (I also think “trade both” is a bad idea because you are likely to not get back equal value in one trade and that lost value likely doubles with trading both of them.) So I think if your lane is keeping Trae then fitting with the whole team means fitting with Trae more than any other player because the team’s success is more contingent on a good fit with him than any other player. I do agree with you that this is a tough draft to forecast the future of any particular player considered to be a top pick. (There are some guys I feel much more comfortable orojecting that are clearly not going to be on the board for the Hawks in a trade Trae or a trade DJM scenario). While I also agree that a player is or is not a bust based on what they do versus the reasonable expectation for the pick and not based on what other players do, I think that inevitable would be part of the mainstream discussion about whether. Ick is a busy or not. Trae is not a bust of a pick for me just because Luka is better. Both have exceeded expectations and were great picks. But it is hard for people to let go of failing to grab the best player in the board. The gap between getting the pick wrong and the pick being a bust is non-existent in a lot of conversations about whether picks were busts or not. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NBASupes Posted May 26 Report Share Posted May 26 6 hours ago, JayBirdHawk said: There is no acceptable trade down from #1 past the #5 pick (unless you are significant talent boost), and that's even a stretch. Ideally #3 should be the cutoff. At #4, I'm only doing that if Spurs are returning one of our firsts and the swap as well. At #5, Detroit will need to include Asuar+. Beyond that.....it has to be young player(s) that can fit right into a slot of need with significant potential upside going forward (wether we keep or use in a subsequent trade). I'm not willingly underselling the value of #1 pick no matter what the experts think about the strength of the class. I just don't agree. But if you believe this to be the case, I can't say you are wrong and I am right. I just don't agree. I don't love the 5/Ivey for 1 trade and I love Ivey but I am struggling to see his fit here with Trae. Ausar is a way better fit and he's not a fit either because he can't shoot. I would love Cade tho and take Cade. [] Any other plan doesn't make sense with Trae in mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member JayBirdHawk Posted May 26 Premium Member Report Share Posted May 26 6 minutes ago, NBASupes said: I just don't agree. But if you believe this to be the case, I can't say you are wrong and I am right. I just don't agree. And that's ok. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kg01 Posted May 26 Report Share Posted May 26 10 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said: still awful. And this is why there is no reasoned discussions to be had with you going forward. I blame you, burd. I blame you .... and the GOAT Montrezl, I guess. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Popular Post JayBirdHawk Posted May 26 Premium Member Popular Post Report Share Posted May 26 12 minutes ago, NBASupes said: Any other plan doesn't make sense with Trae in mind. Let me repeat what I said before the lottery, no ONE player alone in this draft is miraculously changing the fortunes of the team next season. But rather it will be about what the owner and front office can do in reshaping the existing roster. That will be the driving force in how good we are for next season and beyond. Defense, Size, Speed, Athleticism. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kg01 Posted May 26 Report Share Posted May 26 1 minute ago, JayBirdHawk said: Let me repeat what I said before the lottery, no ONE player alone in this draft is miraculously changing the fortune of the team next season. But rather it will be about what the owner and front office does in reshaping the existing roster. Tgat will be the driving force in how good we are for next season and beyond. Can you say this louder for the folks in the back tryna reboot our franchise with multiple picks in a draft with no franchise players? 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member JayBirdHawk Posted May 26 Premium Member Report Share Posted May 26 1 minute ago, kg01 said: Can you say this louder for the folks in the back tryna reboot our franchise with multiple picks in a draft with no franchise players? I'm done yelling it. I have no voice left 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bird_dirt Posted May 26 Report Share Posted May 26 20 minutes ago, NBASupes said: I don't love the 5/Ivey for 1 trade and I love Ivey but I am struggling to see his fit here with Trae. I thought this was for DJM, not #1? I wouldn’t do that for 1 either. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NBASupes Posted May 26 Report Share Posted May 26 (edited) 13 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said: Let me repeat what I said before the lottery, no ONE player alone in this draft is miraculously changing the fortunes of the team next season. But rather it will be about what the owner and front office can do in reshaping the existing roster. That will be the driving force in how good we are for next season and beyond. Defense, Size, Speed, Athleticism. I disagree. Lively has help change the fortunes for Dallas. Without him, they aren't in the WCF. We aren't Portland or Washington. We are actually one piece away Atlanta and Chicago are one piece away. They may have to do little things to fix holes but they need a major piece and that piece is available in this draft with Edey and Clingan for Atlanta. For Chicago, I just think they need a healthy Lonzo Ball. Edited May 26 by NBASupes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NBASupes Posted May 26 Report Share Posted May 26 (edited) The difference between me and you Jay is you think this team is far. I don't. Dallas and Minnesota was right there with Atlanta last year. Indy was worse. We aren't far. We just got a massive hole at center because CC is washed and we need to fill that with Edey or Clingan Edited May 26 by NBASupes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NBASupes Posted May 26 Report Share Posted May 26 To me, I know I can turn this team into a contender. Even if you don't agree, I know my plan will work. Ya'll plan I am sure won't and that's why y'all either won't give it or it's just a terrible plan that will lose us Trae in a year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Jody23 Posted May 26 Premium Member Report Share Posted May 26 Hawks, just pick the best player, please. I'm not confident they will though. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Popular Post JayBirdHawk Posted May 26 Premium Member Popular Post Report Share Posted May 26 9 minutes ago, NBASupes said: I disagree. Lively has help change the fortunes for Dallas. Without him, they aren't in the WCF. The mid-season trade of Gafford and Washington also played a vital role in that equation. So like I said...reshaping the roster and no ONE player. And a player similar to Lively is exactly who the Hawks should be targeting. Thanks for pointing that out. 4 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NBASupes Posted May 26 Report Share Posted May 26 Quin gave us a nice blueprint when we started the season. We had a nice defensive scheme that was built on causing turnovers. It worked till our offense couldn't score PITP, we turn the ball over too much and we just was food in transition. Even our transition offense was finally good due to JJ arrival in the starting 5. If you remember, Bey was our original starter at the 4. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NBASupes Posted May 26 Report Share Posted May 26 (edited) 4 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said: The mid-season trade of Gafford and Washington also played a vital role in that equation. So like I said...reshaping the roster. And a player similar to Lively is exactly who the Hawks should be targeting. Thanks for pointing that out. Those played a role for sure but Lively is the critical piece. Every Mavs fan, coach, Exec will tell you that. He's the one that's foundational with Luka and Kyrie. The others just play a role and fixed some holes. Luka don't need what Trae needs. We already traded for a PG in Murray. See how that worked out for us. Edited May 26 by NBASupes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NBASupes Posted May 26 Report Share Posted May 26 (edited) Luka ain't Trae, if you want the players Luka has for Trae, watch that shit faulter. Trae needs what Trae needs. We need size and bulk. Luka is one of the best post defenders in the NBA and Trae is one of the worst. We need bulk and size. M Gasol Gobert Edey Clingan KAT Edited May 26 by NBASupes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NBASupes Posted May 26 Report Share Posted May 26 To me, this ain't hard. We are so damn close. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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