2023-24 Insider Information Thread

[Jody23]

This stuff is so disingenuous.  These teams want to get Trae for literally pennies on the dollar.

[Lurker]

Personally, think somehow exiting the early parts of the offseason with Alex Sarr and Mikal Bridges, if possible (if there’s truth behind Detroit being interested in #5 for mainly just Dejounte, reroute that pick to Brooklyn as others said earlier today), would be pretty good.

I guess if Alex Sarr doesn’t fit with Trae Young, then Trae Young doesn’t fit with Quin Snyder, and he needs to be traded and we just need to blow it up.

Which, I guess you can sort of see the point here. The most successful stretch in the Trae Young era was with Nate McMillan with him slowing down the offense. But that won’t be happening with Snyder, the offense will be playing faster, and the idea that Edey can fit in here is a big-time stretch (it is with Clingan a bit as well).

I wouldn’t be anticipating Sarr playing a major role offensively for 24/25, but any ideas that he’s not a 4/5 are fantastical. He is. But at this point, his only advantage outside of his defense would definitely be rim running.

[Hawkish]

18 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

Luka ain't Trae, if you want the players Luka has for Trae, watch that shit faulter. Trae needs what Trae needs. We need size and bulk. Luka is one of the best post defenders in the NBA and Trae is one of the worst. We need bulk and size. 

M Gasol

Gobert

Edey

Clingan

KAT

I have zero interest in KAT watching him look lost and average in the playoffs.  

[Hawkish]

10 minutes ago, Jody23 said:

This stuff is so disingenuous.  These teams want to get Trae for literally pennies on the dollar.

Well, we like Herb and TMurph.  So…

On a related note, is there a world where we keep DJ and move Trae?

Edited May 26 by Hawkish

[JayBirdHawk]

3 minutes ago, Jody23 said:

This stuff is so disingenuous.  These teams want to get Trae for literally pennies on the dollar.

Sounds more like:

1. Trae is not on the table

2. NOP can't afford Hawks price for Trae

3. DJ has been and is still on the table

[NBASupes]

7 minutes ago, Hawkish said:

I have zero interest in KAT watching him look lost and average in the playoffs.  

KAT defense is bad sadly. The only thing he's good for is post defense. Even his switching is meh and got replaced by Reid because of it. KAT bad at drop coverage D. That said, Trae with KAT on offense is OMG!

[AtLaS]

12 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

To me, this ain't hard. We are so damn close. 

This really makes sense as to why you like Clingan or Edey so much.  If you truly believe the Hawks are that close to contention and Clingan/Edey being more ready to contribute right now thus we should take the more NBA ready guy, then that makes sense even if you sacrifice the long term potential of a player like Sarr.

I also believe we are close, just look at the final 4 teams this year compared to where they were last year.  I'm just not sure Clingan/Edey is the difference maker that you seem to think.  What happens if we took them and move up to the 6 seed and get eliminated in the first round and Sarr starts balling a lot sooner than we thought?  

I just don't see either Clingan/Edey ever being star players, and they will always struggle on the pick and roll against quick guards.  Like Gobert does.  He's won 4 DPOYs and teams are questioning if he should even be on the floor in crunchtime to get a defensive stop?  This has happened multiple times, look at Utah/Dallas when Max Klieber went off against him, or Utah/LAC when Terrance Mann killed him.  He gets exposed defensively in the playoffs.

Sarr has top 5 potential.  Whether he reaches that potential or not is unknown.  But with the #1 overall pick I want to swing for the fences. 

Worst case scenario Sarr is going to be a solid NBA player IMO.  He's just too gifted not to be.   

I also think Sarr is more ready to contribute than you think he is.  I think you are downplaying his ability right now to sort of amp up the argument for Clingan/Edey.  At the very least he will be able to defend, rebound, block shots and run the floor in transition, and he will get some easy buckets playing with Trae.  

[NBASupes]

12 minutes ago, Jody23 said:

This stuff is so disingenuous.  These teams want to get Trae for literally pennies on the dollar.

Ya'll gotta stop posting old news. 

[kg01]

3 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

Ya'll gotta stop posting old news. 

Folks are trying to actually have a discussion and not .... whatever it is that's been going on lately. 

[Hawkish]

2 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

KAT defense is bad sadly. The only thing he's good for is post defense. Even his switching is meh and got replaced by Reid because of it. KAT bad at drop coverage D. That said, Trae with KAT on offense is OMG!

He looks soft and lacks “it” for a player commanding so much of the cap.  He just camps at the 3-point line.  It’s like a big dog that believes it’s a mouse.  3-point shooting apparently tires him out.  

[KB21]

4 minutes ago, AtLaS said:

This really makes sense as to why you like Clingan or Edey so much.  If you truly believe the Hawks are that close to contention and Clingan/Edey being more ready to contribute right now thus we should take the more NBA ready guy, then that makes sense even if you sacrifice the long term potential of a player like Sarr.

I also believe we are close, just look at the final 4 teams this year compared to where they were last year.  I'm just not sure Clingan/Edey is the difference maker that you seem to think.  What happens if we took them and move up to the 6 seed and get eliminated in the first round and Sarr starts balling a lot sooner than we thought?  

I just don't see either Clingan/Edey ever being star players, and they will always struggle on the pick and roll against quick guards.  Like Gobert does.  He's won 4 DPOYs and teams are questioning if he should even be on the floor in crunchtime to get a defensive stop?  This has happened multiple times, look at Utah/Dallas when Max Klieber went off against him, or Utah/LAC when Terrance Mann killed him.  He gets exposed defensively in the playoffs.

Sarr has top 5 potential.  Whether he reaches that potential or not is unknown.  But with the #1 overall pick I want to swing for the fences. 

Worst case scenario Sarr is going to be a solid NBA player IMO.  He's just too gifted not to be.   

I also think Sarr is more ready to contribute than you think he is.  I think you are downplaying his ability right now to sort of amp up the argument for Clingan/Edey.  At the very least he will be able to defend, rebound, block shots and run the floor in transition, and he will get some easy buckets playing with Trae.  

Agree with this.  I would also add that with Clingan, you will still have the issue of building the rest of the team to compensate for his lack of defensive versatility.  You will have to get multiple POA defenders to go with him.  

[NBASupes]

15 minutes ago, AtLaS said:

This really makes sense as to why you like Clingan or Edey so much.  If you truly believe the Hawks are that close to contention and Clingan/Edey being more ready to contribute right now thus we should take the more NBA ready guy, then that makes sense even if you sacrifice the long term potential of a player like Sarr.

I also believe we are close, just look at the final 4 teams this year compared to where they were last year.  I'm just not sure Clingan/Edey is the difference maker that you seem to think.  What happens if we took them and move up to the 6 seed and get eliminated in the first round and Sarr starts balling a lot sooner than we thought?  

I just don't see either Clingan/Edey ever being star players, and they will always struggle on the pick and roll against quick guards.  Like Gobert does.  He's won 4 DPOYs and teams are questioning if he should even be on the floor in crunchtime to get a defensive stop?  This has happened multiple times, look at Utah/Dallas when Max Klieber went off against him, or Utah/LAC when Terrance Mann killed him.  He gets exposed defensively in the playoffs.

Sarr has top 5 potential.  Whether he reaches that potential or not is unknown.  But with the #1 overall pick I want to swing for the fences. 

Worst case scenario Sarr is going to be a solid NBA player IMO.  He's just too gifted not to be.   

I also think Sarr is more ready to contribute than you think he is.  I think you are downplaying his ability right now to sort of amp up the argument for Clingan/Edey.  At the very least he will be able to defend, rebound, block shots and run the floor in transition, and he will get some easy buckets playing with Trae.  

Exactly! 

I crunch the hell out of numbers and I watch every game at least twice. The issue this was 3 fold outside of injuries which impact everyone 

1. Trae and Murray fit on D was criminal. Somehow Trae was way better and he was awful. Offensively, it had some of the most elite moments in Hawks history but the lulls were consistent and came in crunch time 

2. CC being washed really f***ed us over. OO issue is probably more on Quin. Instead of letting OO just be a traditional big, he tried to use him like these modern 5s and OO was f***ing terrible at it. Bruno was a bright spot but his fit with Trae is bad and his offense is just terrible. That said, his defense improved and he really showed some good things in terms of impact with his effort and motor. 

3. Quin kinda f***ed us trying to make the bigs play modern in the 1st half of the season. It exposed the paint, we got our asses handed to us on D and Quin had to adjust and go back to Nates drop D. Even with Murray at the helm, he still stuck with the drop D and we really had success and CC didn't look as bad. He was still washed but he had some excellent moments. Too much square pegging into round holes had us trying to make up ground. By the time we figured it out. We we're stuck in mid alley. 

I really like Bogi, Bey, and JJ. Hunter off the bench worked as well. OO would have probably had a good 2nd half since Quin took his head out of his ass off the bench. It's not a bad team. If you look at the rest of the east. Outside of Boston, it's close but far. 

1. Get Clingan and instantly improve our offense by a tier and defense by two tiers.

Get Edey and improve our offense by 3 tiers and our defense stays the same as it was with washed CC. Maybe not as many highs as with washed CC but no where as many lows either.

2. We showed in the 2nd half, we got depth. Just need one more high end perimeter player. 

3. Without Bey, who is that 4 behind JJ. Gueye finished the last 10 games out with a 1 WAR. He was an impact but is he truly ready for the next step. Progress is not linear. 

I don't think we are that far. 

Our bad is PITP for both us on both ends, transition defense is always terrible for us and turnovers. We were awful in the paint as well. Bottom 5 in paint efficiency. We couldn't score in the paint for shit. We gotta be able to keep players out the paint and score in the paint. 

Edited May 26 by NBASupes

[NBASupes]

21 minutes ago, AtLaS said:

  I just don't see either Clingan/Edey ever being star players, and they will always struggle on the pick and roll against quick guards.  Like Gobert does.  He's won 4 DPOYs and teams are questioning if he should even be on the floor in crunchtime to get a defensive stop?  This has happened multiple times, look at Utah/Dallas when Max Klieber went off against him, or Utah/LAC when Terrance Mann killed him.  He gets exposed defensively in the playoffs.

Sarr has top 5 potential.  Whether he reaches that potential or not is unknown.  But with the #1 overall pick I want to swing for the fences. 

Worst case scenario Sarr is going to be a solid NBA player IMO.  He's just too gifted not to be.   

I also think Sarr is more ready to contribute than you think he is.  I think you are downplaying his ability right now to sort of amp up the argument for Clingan/Edey.  At the very least he will be able to defend, rebound, block shots and run the floor in transition, and he will get some easy buckets playing with Trae.  

In general, maybe they won't be. But with the Hawks with Trae who uses his center as an extention of himself, I don't know if we can count that out for either, especially Edey who's just as relentless as Trae. Nothing about Karl Malone as a prospect said, MVP or superstar but he was with Stockton.

My belief is simple, if they are smart defenders, they will adjust. That's the most important thing to me. I've seen Jokic who is not a talented defender play well on D because of his size and IQ. Same for Marc Gasol. Clingan and Edey have size and IQ. So I am not going to eliminate them and Gobert is one of the best in these playoffs at +/-. His team is winning because of him. Not in spite. 

Sarr potential is not my issue. I think it's as high as Wiseman and ask @thecampster, I was down on Wiseman but i wasnt down on his upside. 

My belief is hes really far away on offense and he doesnt fit Trae at all. Sure, Trae can make him better but can he help Trae is my issue. If he can't, he's a bad pick in my eyes and that's regardless if I think he will reach his potential or not in Atlanta. Just that along has be out on him.

Edited May 26 by NBASupes

[KB21]

Back to my post on Clingan, I’m not 100% against taking him.  I see the potential fit.  I also see the limitations that style of big has.   You will encounter instances where you can’t put him on the floor.  You will be limited in the schematics of your defense.  
 

With Sarr, there are no such limitations.  The only concern with Sarr is defending one on one against a bigger player in the post early in his career.  It’s not enough of a weakness for me to pass on everything else he brings defensively.  

[NBASupes]

5 hours ago, KB21 said:

Back to my post on Clingan, I’m not 100% against taking him.  I see the potential fit.  I also see the limitations that style of big has.   You will encounter instances where you can’t put him on the floor.  You will be limited in the schematics of your defense.  
 

With Sarr, there are no such limitations.  The only concern with Sarr is defending one on one against a bigger player in the post early in his career.  It’s not enough of a weakness for me to pass on everything else he brings defensively.  

There are a lot of concerns about Sarr and not that many with Clingan.  []

[kg01]

Can't help himself. 

[KB21]

My choices at #1 in order of preference:

Alex Sarr

Zaccharie Risacher

Donovan Clingan

[theheroatl]

3 minutes ago, KB21 said:

My choices at #1 in order of preference:

Alex Sarr

Zaccharie Risacher

Donovan Clingan

Sarr - PF

Risacher - SF

Sheppard - SG

Edited May 26 by theheroatl

[KB21]

7 minutes ago, theheroatl said:

Sarr - PF

Risacher - SF

Sheppard - SG

In a vacuum, I like Reed.  Just not for the Hawks.  

[deester11]

6 minutes ago, KB21 said:

My choices at #1 in order of preference:

Alex Sarr

Zaccharie Risacher

Donovan Clingan

I've had this as my order all along and I believe it should only come down to 2 players : Sarr and Risacher.  At one, this is simple. Even the Wizards are ecstatic about the consolation prize.  No matter who argues about Clingan and or Edey, the first options aren't detracted by people who can't see that the ceiling is what the Hawks should aim for in this draft.  Maximizing trades is where the other work should be done.  And it could change the trajectory of play-in nonsense.