2023-24 Insider Information Thread

[JayBirdHawk]

Moment too big for KAT?

 

 

 

[kg01]

2 minutes ago, JeffS17 said:

Yep, I honestly feel bad for KAT and for Minny fans alike, but mostly KAT-- Minny fans still have Anthony Edwards who should be easy to build around going forward.  KAT should have never opted for that procedure but I don't know the details of his case, sometimes that's the only option.  I actually like KAT personally and think he's a decent dude, just don't want him and his $60M salary hitting our payroll

So nbaradio usually interviews a doctor about it whenever it comes up, a player choosing between removing the meniscus vs shaving it.

The doctor always suggests the decision is simple.  Either have the removal surgery (longer recovery, less risk of arthritis) or shave it (shorter recovery, very likely development of arthritis).

Teams obviously pressure the player to shave it because that benefits the team significantly more than it benefits the player.  Teams shame players by saying getting the removal is "selfish".  It's actually pretty sinister.

1 minute ago, JayBirdHawk said:

NOP flooding the market is all.

The Pelicans and Cavaliers are expected to re-engage on trade talks this offseason centered around Darius Garland, per

@cclark_13

(https://nola.com/sports/pelicans/why-pelicans-should-target-a-guard-in-any-ingram-trade/article_bdb01b7c-1aa3-11ef-8499-e3c24bd8b915.html…). If Donovan Mitchell ends up staying in Cleveland, swapping Garland for Brandon Ingram makes a ton of sense for both sides.

As I read these Pelican'ts rumors(sic), I remind myself David Griffin always plays the Game of Groans - execs playing the media to try and create advantages for their offseason plans. 

[Hawkish]

6 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

Moment too big for KAT?

 

 

 

Pass

[JayBirdHawk]

27 minutes ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

 

KAT at high 40M

or Capela + Hunter at mid 40M?

If that's the deal I would take it in a heart beat and not think about it despite the salary. It would be time for Ressler to put up or shut up.

But it won't be and Ressler won't pay.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

27 minutes ago, JeffS17 said:

Yep, I honestly feel bad for KAT and for Minny fans alike, but mostly KAT-- Minny fans still have Anthony Edwards who should be easy to build around going forward.  KAT should have never opted for that procedure but I don't know the details of his case, sometimes that's the only option.  I actually like KAT personally and think he's a decent dude, just don't want him and his $60M salary hitting our payroll

The fans have to pick a side.

Do you want the Hawks to spend money on good to great players, or not?

Sometimes, you have to overpay for a guy, to get him on your team. 

The worst thing to do, is talk yourself out of acquiring players like this, and keep the mid-players that you KNOW won't move the needle, just because they're under "good contracts".

Fans tend to be way too focused on what a guy makes, compared on what that guy's impact can be on your team.

KAT's price tag doesn't scare me, considering that the salary cap is going to go up when the new TV contract hits, along with the plethora of young guys we have on the team to offset big contracts, that are also possibly going to be rotation players for a few years.

What this team needs, is talent. Specifically frontcourt talent.  Adding KAT + #1 would be a tremendous offseason for the Hawks.

 

But the Wolves need to "blink" first.

Edited May 27 by TheNorthCydeRises

[JeffS17]

2 minutes ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

The fans have to pick a side.

Do you want the Hawks to spend money on good to great players, or not?

Sometimes, you have to overpay for a guy, to get him on your team. 

The worst thing to do, is talk yourself out of acquiring players like this, and keep the mid-players that you KNOW won't move the needle, just because they're under "good contracts".

Fans tend to be way too focused on what a guy makes, compared on what that guy's impact can be on your team.

KAT's price tag doesn't scare me, considering that the salary cap is going to go up when the new TV contract hits, along with the plethora of young guys we have on the team to offset big contracts, that are also possibly going to be rotation players for a few years.

What this team needs, is talent. Specifically frontcourt talent.  Adding KAT + #1 would be a tremendous offseason for the Hawks.

 

But the Wolves need to "blink" first.

The fans have to pick a side.

Do you want the Hawks to spend money on good to great players, or not?

Sometimes, you have to overpay for a guy, to get him on your team. 

The worst thing to do, is talk yourself out of acquiring players like this, and keep the mid-players that you KNOW won't move the needle, just because they're under "good contracts".

Fans tend to be way too focused on what a guy makes, compared on what that guy's impact can be on your team.

KAT's price tag doesn't scare me, considering that the salary cap is going to go up when the new TV contract hits, along with the plethora of young guys we have on the team to offset big contracts, that are also possibly going to be rotation players for a few years.

What this team needs, is talent. Specifically frontcourt talent.  Adding KAT + #1 would be a tremendous offseason for the Hawks.

 

But the Wolves need to "blink" first.

I agree with the sentiment of this post.  I just think the guy is going to be injury riddled and continue to be on the bench in street clothes for the remainder of his career.  His last 5 season: 35 games, 50 games, 74 games, 29 games, 62 games.  And he's coming off a shaved meniscus and over 30.

I'm with you that we might need to overpay for high end talent (and I've repeated ad nauseum that's what this team needs, not more bench players or mediocre starters), but I really, really, don't want ANOTHER injury-riddled player on this team, especially one that takes up that much cap space.

[Final_quest]

1 hour ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

 

Honestly, KAT struggling in a big series may cause A-Rod and the Minnesota ownership to "blink".   Let's hope they blink.

The biggest way the Hawks could add talent to their team, is for another team to fall "out of love" with one of their better players.  That's probably what is happening with Ingram.  And I hope that's what happens with Minnesota and KAT.

It’s hard for people to understand these are the best moves that are available to us.  The actual MVP level guys aren’t gonna hit the trade market.  KAT guarded Jokic and was a huge factor taking out the champs.  

It’s recency bias to  think of him as a bad player.  A guy we get will have some warts, or else he isn’t available.  I’d consider KAT over Ingram.  

Who else do people think are gonna be an optio?  Rui Hachimura?  Quentin Grimes?  

[kg01]

4 minutes ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

The fans have to pick a side.

Do you want the Hawks to spend money on good to great players, or not?

Find us a good-to-great player.  Towns may not be that.

All due respect, you're sounding like this guy I know.  If we're thirsty, he'll say "Have some pickle juice!"

But we'll say, "Ya know, no thanks.  I don't like the taste."

And he'll respond with, "Well yall aren't thirsty!  I studied pickle juice and if you don't like it you're disrespecting my very existence!!"

And we're all, "Uh no, just don't like the taste of pickle juice.  It ain't that serious, brah."

 

[Hawkish]

15 minutes ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

The fans have to pick a side.

Do you want the Hawks to spend money on good to great players, or not?

Sometimes, you have to overpay for a guy, to get him on your team. 

The worst thing to do, is talk yourself out of acquiring players like this, and keep the mid-players that you KNOW won't move the needle, just because they're under "good contracts".

Fans tend to be way too focused on what a guy makes, compared on what that guy's impact can be on your team.

KAT's price tag doesn't scare me, considering that the salary cap is going to go up when the new TV contract hits, along with the plethora of young guys we have on the team to offset big contracts, that are also possibly going to be rotation players for a few years.

What this team needs, is talent. Specifically frontcourt talent.  Adding KAT + #1 would be a tremendous offseason for the Hawks.

 

But the Wolves need to "blink" first.

I agree with the point you are making; I just don’t think KAT is the guy.  “Spending money” doesn’t have to mean we spend $50-60M on a guy that isn’t the first or second option on a championship team.  I had not even checked out his injury/games missed history.  Easy pass

[TheNorthCydeRises]

14 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

If that's the deal I would take it in a heart beat and not think about it despite the salary. It would be time for Ressler to put up or shut up.

But it won't be and Ressler won't pay.

 

Let me clarify.

When I say KAT @ high 40M 

Capela + Hunter @ mid 40M 

I meant that as a comparison or replacement of their value . . not a trade of KAT for Capela + Hunter.

 

The one thing that I agree with @NBASupes on, is that if you put a good to very good scoring center with Trae, that unlocks a lot of things in this offense, especially in crunch time situations.  We would now have option to attack teams at multiple levels, not just at the guard spot.

Defensively, that's why you draft Sarr.  Having a 7-1 PF as your roamer/help defender, along with a 6-11 guy at center who can play on the perimeter ( and can pass ), would make us so much more lethal with end of game offense.  Pair that with the uber athletic 6-9 Jalen Johnson, a guy like KAT could turn that frontcourt into something lethal with Trae running the show.

 

You know what's going to happen if Minnesota decides to get KAT off of their books to stay underneath the 2nd apron?  He's going to end up on a team like the Knicks, who could desperately use a big man center.   Julius Randle + filler will be dealt for KAT, making the Knicks even stronger.

 

Meanwhile, Landry and the Hawks will be walking around in circles, justifying why going after KAT is a bad move financially, and that we're better off staying put and enhancing the "Hawks DNA" of our younger players and established vets. 

 

[Hawkish]

1 minute ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

 

Let me clarify.

When I say KAT @ high 40M 

Capela + Hunter @ mid 40M 

I meant that as a comparison or replacement of their value . . not a trade of KAT for Capela + Hunter.

 

The one thing that I agree with @NBASupes on, is that if you put a good to very good scoring center with Trae, that unlocks a lot of things in this offense, especially in crunch time situations.  We would now have option to attack teams at multiple levels, not just at the guard spot.

Defensively, that's why you draft Sarr.  Having a 7-1 PF as your roamer/help defender, along with a 6-11 guy at center who can play on the perimeter ( and can pass ), would make us so much more lethal with end of game offense.  Pair that with the uber athletic 6-9 Jalen Johnson, a guy like KAT could turn that frontcourt into something lethal with Trae running the show.

 

You know what's going to happen if Minnesota decides to get KAT off of their books to stay underneath the 2nd apron?  He's going to end up on a team like the Knicks, who could desperately use a big man center.   Julius Randle + filler will be dealt for KAT, making the Knicks even stronger.

 

Meanwhile, Landry and the Hawks will be walking around in circles, justifying why going after KAT is a bad move financially, and that we're better off staying put and enhancing the "Hawks DNA" of our younger players and established vets. 

 

Who plays around the basket?  KAT doesn’t help us there and Sarr supposedly doesn’t want to be a Center.

[kg01]

1 minute ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

You know what's going to happen if Minnesota decides to get KAT off of their books to stay underneath the 2nd apron?  He's going to end up on a team like the Knicks, who could desperately use a big man center.   Julius Randle + filler will be dealt for KAT, making the Knicks even stronger.

Meanwhile, Landry and the Hawks will be walking around in circles, justifying why going after KAT is a bad move financially, and that we're better off staying put and enhancing the "Hawks DNA" of our younger players and established vets. 

 

Yeah, you make some compelling points here.  Curse you for making me consider the pickle juice! 

[JeffS17]

9 minutes ago, Final_quest said:

It’s hard for people to understand these are the best moves that are available to us.  The actual MVP level guys aren’t gonna hit the trade market.  KAT guarded Jokic and was a huge factor taking out the champs.  

It’s recency bias to  think of him as a bad player.  A guy we get will have some warts, or else he isn’t available.  I’d consider KAT over Ingram.  

Who else do people think are gonna be an optio?  Rui Hachimura?  Quentin Grimes?  

Nah, I totally understand this which is why I was pro-Siakam last summer.  I was also pro-Jaylen Brown when we had a moment of brief chatter, even though he allegedly could not dribble with his left hand.  KAT though, when I watch play, has no impact on winning.  And then I check his impact and it matches what I'm seeing on the court.  He's by far the lowest net rating player on the Wolves starting 5 this playoffs.  And this is when he can actually suit up and play.

He's just not the type of player that matches what Quin wants to do, either.  He's not a switchable defender, he can barely pass and make good reads, etc.  He's an elite shooter and that's about it.  He is also an extremely low BBIQ player that I cannot see being a core piece of any team that goes far.  The amount of stupid fouls he makes and boneheaded plays is frustrating for me and I'm not even a Wolves fan.  Compare that to a guy like Siakam that can dribble/create, pass, switch on defense, finish at the rim, etc. and that is why I was more on board with him than I am KAT.  

[Hawkish]

15 minutes ago, Final_quest said:

It’s hard for people to understand these are the best moves that are available to us.  The actual MVP level guys aren’t gonna hit the trade market.  KAT guarded Jokic and was a huge factor taking out the champs.  

It’s recency bias to  think of him as a bad player.  A guy we get will have some warts, or else he isn’t available.  I’d consider KAT over Ingram.  

Who else do people think are gonna be an optio?  Rui Hachimura?  Quentin Grimes?  

Who is saying he is a bad player?  It seems totally reasonable to question if he should command such a huge portion of a salary cap for the impact on winning he has/doesn’t have.  

[JeffS17]

4 minutes ago, JeffS17 said:

Nah, I totally understand this which is why I was pro-Siakam last summer.  I was also pro-Jaylen Brown when we had a moment of brief chatter, even though he allegedly could not dribble with his left hand.  KAT though, when I watch play, has no impact on winning.  And then I check his impact and it matches what I'm seeing on the court.  He's by far the lowest net rating player on the Wolves starting 5 this playoffs.  And this is when he can actually suit up and play.

He's just not the type of player that matches what Quin wants to do, either.  He's not a switchable defender, he can barely pass and make good reads, etc.  He's an elite shooter and that's about it.  He is also an extremely low BBIQ player that I cannot see being a core piece of any team that goes far.  The amount of stupid fouls he makes and boneheaded plays is frustrating for me and I'm not even a Wolves fan.  Compare that to a guy like Siakam that can dribble/create, pass, switch on defense, finish at the rim, etc. and that is why I was more on board with him than I am KAT.  

I'll caveat my own post with the fact he's playing out of position in Minny right now which I acknowledge is part of the reason his stats are bad (including just bad shooting).  Still a pass for me though.  I think the timeline just doesn't sync and his body is breaking down

[JayBirdHawk]

38 minutes ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

The fans have to pick a side....

I agree and more than anything, we need to take a high end risk. We've always played it safe and be risk averse. I think now is the perfect time to jump in feet first. We have the #1 pick, we don't have two of our next 3 picks, but we do have a collection of young players in development, put your best possible team on the floor for the next 3 years.

 

Spoiler

Wait...what....I was hacked, this isn't really me saying this.....somebody help . I'm having another KAT Knighmare. 

 

[Carmine]

8 hours ago, benhillboy said:

It’s quite rare to see a “smallish” guard lead a #3 tournament seeded team in offensive and defensive rating by a wide margin like Sheppard did.  Super-high floor indicator like Haliburton’s metrics and scouting, which in turn pushes the ceiling as high as the player and surrounding fits want to and can take it, respectively.

His adjustment time to the physicality shouldn’t take too long either.  I had no idea son was jacked the f&@k up

 

He’ll be 200 pounds in no time, perfect PG size if you want to be able to press and finish.

I'd take him #5 if we trade Murray to the Pistons.

[JeffS17]

3 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

I think now is the perfect time to jump in feet first.

I firmly disagree.  We were just fighting for a 10th seed play-in spot.  It's not the time to jump in feet first...

[TheNorthCydeRises]

11 minutes ago, kg01 said:

Find us a good-to-great player.  Towns may not be that.

All due respect, you're sounding like this guy I know.  If we're thirsty, he'll say "Have some pickle juice!"

But we'll say, "Ya know, no thanks.  I don't like the taste."

And he'll respond with, "Well yall aren't thirsty!  I studied pickle juice and if you don't like it you're disrespecting my very existence!!"

And we're all, "Uh no, just don't like the taste of pickle juice.  It ain't that serious, brah."

 

 

It is that serious if you don't have anything else to drink.  You're going to die of thirst.

Or maybe the alternative to drinking pickle juice, is drinking prune juice.  You might like the prune juice.

 

This would be an aggressive offer for KAT, that achieves our objective of acquiring him, while giving them two rotational pieces + the ability for them to shed salary over 7 mill in salary.

 

 

Minnesota lineup - (PG) Murray .. (G) Edwards - (F) McDaniels - (PF) Hunter - (C) Gobert

Atlanta lineup - (PG) Trae - (G) Bogi - (F) JJ - (PF) Towns - (C) Okongwu

 

In this scenario, you'd still have Capela on the Hawks, if you wanted to start Towns at PF and Capela at C.

Hawks bench could be - Bufkin - Vit - Mo G ( as a big wing ) - #1 pick - Capela

 

I want to see Trae play with a good frontline.  But the Hawks have to let go of some of their beliefs, to make a trade like this.

 

[JayBirdHawk]

1 minute ago, JeffS17 said:

I firmly disagree.  We were just fighting for a 10th seed play-in spot.  It's not the time to jump in feet first...

 

Dallas (38-44) was in the similar position last year. OKC (40-42) wasn't a playoff team, neither was Indy (35-47).  Things change fast in the NBA, nibbling around waits for no man.

Minny was 42-40 last year. Hawks were 41-40.  Two teams that  ended up going in completely opposite directions.