2023-24 Insider Information Thread

[givemesome1ce1]

My problems with KAT are as follows:

-the defense will be an issue as mentioned by other people

-his history of past injuries is concerning and honestly it should worry a lot of people as he gets older

- this is arguably the most bought in KAT has ever been and KAT is still saying stupid stuff and failing to perform in games (to be fair you can say the offensive process is not great from Minnesota’s part)

- his contract is horrible and will cap this team to a certain point.

I just don’t see the risk with Karl Anthony Towns unless we get a bunch of good defenders on this team and or his contract somehow got magically smaller.

 

[capstone21]

21 minutes ago, Hawkish said:

Is a player being benched during important moments not a telling sign?

Isn't that what I said?

[Mikey]

12 hours ago, NBASupes said:

let's be realistic. KAT was an all star this year and he was the MVP of the Denver series. Just because he can't stick on the court against Dallas isn't the end of the world

He does this every playoffs.

[RedDawg#8]

We aren’t getting KAT. No need to worry about his fit. 

[Hawkish]

26 minutes ago, capstone21 said:

Isn't that what I said?

Correct — I was just bringing further attention to it by supporting your point.  

[kg01]

53 minutes ago, capstone21 said:

Isn't that what I said?

Ha, I was thinking the same thing.  @Hawkish it sounded like you were disagreeing with him but, from your last post, I see I misread it too.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

2 hours ago, JeffS17 said:

Not going to address most of this post because it lacks nuance or context or any meaningful level of detail needed to make these comparisons genuine.

All I will say is that we will likely be tanking in 2027 if we go this route because KAT is going to be injured or fallen off bad by then, and he's going to be on a toxic contract (think Beal level toxicity).  He'll probably pick up his juicy $60M player option while wearing street clothes all season.  I don't want that for our future even if it means we can make it to the second round of the playoffs for a year or two.  That's not building a sustainable program.

So what is your view of building a sustainable program?

Start with 2024 . . . and go all the way to 2027.

 

2024 - 

2025 -

2026 - 

2027 - 

[Hawkish]

55 minutes ago, kg01 said:

Ha, I was thinking the same thing.  @Hawkish it sounded like you were disagreeing with him but, from your last post, I see I misread it too.

I hear you — It was more “Look at what Cap said”. My mistake 

Edited May 27 by Hawkish

[TheNorthCydeRises]

2 hours ago, capstone21 said:

The reason I don't want KAT is that we are adding yet another guy that does not defend.

We have to surround Trae with guys who will defend.  Offense we have a plenty.  We get killed on the other side.  We have to stop the ball.

Two way players should be our focus

I agree.  But we have to have guys that have the ability to be a high level offensive point source, outside of Trae and Bogi ( on occasion ).

Gallo was a guy that couldn't defend ( unless he was on Embiid for a critical play ), but he could provide critical offense when the Hawks needed it.  The same went for Lou Williams.

If we do the right thing and select Sarr, he's the guy that we're going to be looking at as our defensive anchor on our frontline.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

4 hours ago, marco102 said:

I like this, but unless we have another big wing defender, I'm keeping Hunter on the roster.  I wish some way they could swing a KAT and Mikal Bridges trade.  I'd have to let Bogi go in that scenario though. 

How many years are we going to overvalue Hunter's defense? As long as he's on this team, coach is going to have to justify playing him major minutes.

He does one thing at an average level, and that's guard the ball.  He's not an overall impact defender, because rebounding, getting steals, getting blocks, is part of the defensive energy we need on this team as well.

 

[TheNorthCydeRises]

4 hours ago, givemesome1ce1 said:

My problems with KAT are as follows:

-the defense will be an issue as mentioned by other people

-his history of past injuries is concerning and honestly it should worry a lot of people as he gets older

- this is arguably the most bought in KAT has ever been and KAT is still saying stupid stuff and failing to perform in games (to be fair you can say the offensive process is not great from Minnesota’s part)

- his contract is horrible and will cap this team to a certain point.

I just don’t see the risk with Karl Anthony Towns unless we get a bunch of good defenders on this team and or his contract somehow got magically smaller.

 

 

That's cool.

Talking about KAT is a long shot at best.  I've said on here during the season that Minnesota would run it back, even if barely put them in the 2nd tax apron.  I'm just hoping KAT's play in this series would cause them to think twice about it.

 

But that still leaves us with what the Hawks should do. We are at a legit crossroads as a franchise.

Trae wants to win. The only way that happens is if we bring other high level players in here, while hoping our kids ( and the 1 - 2 vets we bring in ) all mesh together.  IF we do nothing, Trae goes somewhere else, unless ATL max's him out.

 

I will say that getting complimentary pieces that can defend, would be easier to find than obtaining another high level offensive player to pair with Trae. 

Frontcourt players I would target, if they're on the market:

• Paul George
• KAT
• Jimmy Butler
• Julius Randle
• Brandon Ingram
• Mikal Bridges

Every single one of these players have flaws that people can nit pick at.  At some point though, the nit picking has to stop and the Hawks need to go out and get somebody significant.

[marco102]

2 hours ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

How many years are we going to overvalue Hunter's defense? As long as he's on this team, coach is going to have to justify playing him major minutes.

He does one thing at an average level, and that's guard the ball.  He's not an overall impact defender, because rebounding, getting steals, getting blocks, is part of the defensive energy we need on this team as well.

 

I'm not over valuing Hunter's defense. If you move him off the roster, who is your big wing defender? 

[NBASupes]

15 minutes ago, marco102 said:

I'm not over valuing Hunter's defense. If you move him off the roster, who is your big wing defender? 

He doesn't like Hunter at all. He really could care less. But yes, if you trade Hunter, you need to find that defender or you will be looking for him as soon as you lost him 

[Threezus]

21 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

He doesn't like Hunter at all. He really could care less. But yes, if you trade Hunter, you need to find that defender or you will be looking for him as soon as you lost him 

I honestly want to keep Hunter on the team i just don't want him starting.  To me if Hunter is your backup SF and very good defensive swap in when you need it.  He is a very valuable piece to have on the team just wish his contract was a little bit better lol.  But i really liked what i seen from him coming off the bench this year.  I feel he is in that weird spot of a below avg starter but still better than like 95% of the backups in the league.  So he can really feast on them when he is against them and it helps our bench scoring alot as times last year.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

44 minutes ago, marco102 said:

I'm not over valuing Hunter's defense. If you move him off the roster, who is your big wing defender? 

It could be JJ

It could be Sarr

It could be Vit, if we bring him back

It could be some other free agent ( Robert Covington, Nicolas Batum, etc )

 

We just need to stop expecting Dre to be that guy, because he isn't anymore than a serviceable defender.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

1 hour ago, NBASupes said:

He doesn't like Hunter at all. He really could care less. But yes, if you trade Hunter, you need to find that defender or you will be looking for him as soon as you lost him 

I'm cool with that.

Just because Hunter is the best on ball defender on a bad defensive team, doesn't mean we should act like his defense and defensive impact is above average.   It isn't.

Hunter's offense is more impactful than his defense.

If he stays, he stays.  But at this rate, Hunter is going to spend 15 years with the Hawks, because we just couldn't possibly find a defensive wing to replace him.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

1 hour ago, Threezus said:

I honestly want to keep Hunter on the team i just don't want him starting.  To me if Hunter is your backup SF and very good defensive swap in when you need it.  He is a very valuable piece to have on the team just wish his contract was a little bit better lol.  But i really liked what i seen from him coming off the bench this year.  I feel he is in that weird spot of a below avg starter but still better than like 95% of the backups in the league.  So he can really feast on them when he is against them and it helps our bench scoring alot as times last year.

Bench Hunter was the top 4 pick everyone wants to see.  The scorer/slasher/defender that actually makes an impact on games.

Starter Hunter is the 2nd coming of Marvin Williams

[Threezus]

1 hour ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

Bench Hunter was the top 4 pick everyone wants to see.  The scorer/slasher/defender that actually makes an impact on games.

Starter Hunter is the 2nd coming of Marvin Williams

So a high end 6th man with some defensive chops?   I can be game for that and thats got a spot on most teams around the league.  Honestly if his contract was a bit better i think he would be exactly what you hoped for in that position.   Although the last few 6th man of the years were Tyler Herro and Malcolm Brogdon who were on contracts of 30 mil avg and 22.5 mil avg  so his is sorta inline with theirs.   Naz Ried won it this year on a pretty cheap contract though  Bogi i think finished 3rd or so at 17 mil a year.     So i guess overall it's not god awful but i wish he was more in the 15 to 16 range near bogi and not 22.5. 

[REHawksFan]

19 hours ago, JeffS17 said:

Not going to address most of this post because it lacks nuance or context or any meaningful level of detail needed to make these comparisons genuine.

All I will say is that we will likely be tanking in 2027 if we go this route because KAT is going to be injured or fallen off bad by then, and he's going to be on a toxic contract (think Beal level toxicity).  He'll probably pick up his juicy $60M player option while wearing street clothes all season.  I don't want that for our future even if it means we can make it to the second round of the playoffs for a year or two.  That's not building a sustainable program.

[] First you refuse to discuss the teams that actually went from a .500 record or below to top 5 in their respective conferences which is 100% factual.

Instead, you simultaneously project the worse possible KAT outcome and then use your assumption (which you allude to as fact) to make further presumptions about the Hawks tanking in a few years. 

 

[JeffS17]

7 hours ago, REHawksFan said:

[] First you refuse to discuss the teams that actually went from a .500 record or below to top 5 in their respective conferences which is 100% factual.

Instead, you simultaneously project the worse possible KAT outcome and then use your assumption (which you allude to as fact) to make further presumptions about the Hawks tanking in a few years. 

 

Dallas intentionally tanked.  OKC was also tanking last year but too good to be successful, no Chet who should have won rookie of the year this year.  Indy got the guy we wanted (Siakam) so not surprised they made it this far, and Minny has a healthy KAT this year.

We arent going to magically be a four seed next year and then add KAT and somehow be contenders— we’re not that close.  Its important to acknowledge that or we could end up like the Bulls