2023-24 Insider Information Thread

[kg01]

7 hours ago, JeffS17 said:

Dallas intentionally tanked.  OKC was also tanking last year but too good to be successful, no Chet who should have won rookie of the year this year.  Indy got the guy we wanted (Siakam) so not surprised they made it this far, and Minny has a healthy KAT this year.

We arent going to magically be a four seed next year and then add KAT and somehow be contenders— we’re not that close.  Its important to acknowledge that or we could end up like the Bulls

Dallas tanked literally like 2 games out of 82.  OKC was "too good" ... but tanking?  Cmon, jeffe, what are you on about?

It's not out of the realm of possibility that we could elevate to a top-4 team, assuming we make actual roster changes (such as turning Murray into better-fitting piece(s)). 

[AHF]

30 minutes ago, kg01 said:

Dallas tanked literally like 2 games out of 82.  OKC was "too good" ... but tanking?  Cmon, jeffe, what are you on about?

It's not out of the realm of possibility that we could elevate to a top-4 team, assuming we make actual roster changes (such as turning Murray into better-fitting piece(s)). 

Dallas strategically tanked to keep their pick.  They also stopped competing legitimately after they acquired Kyrie.  The last two games were just the overtly obvious kind of tanking you rarely see.  You really have to rub it in the league’s face to get fined.  

[JayBirdHawk]

8 hours ago, JeffS17 said:

Dallas intentionally tanked.  OKC was also tanking last year but too good to be successful, no Chet who should have won rookie of the year this year.  Indy got the guy we wanted (Siakam) so not surprised they made it this far, and Minny has a healthy KAT this year.

We arent going to magically be a four seed next year and then add KAT and somehow be contenders— we’re not that close.  Its important to acknowledge that or we could end up like the Bulls

Dallas tanked to keep their #10 pick the last few games of the season.

So KAT's injuries matter in this equation?  - what about the Hawks? Losing JJ early then late. Trae, OO, Bey missing significant games after the Allstar Break. Then we get to the play-in: No OO, JJ or Bey...and the biggest tell was the Hawks not having Vit join the big club.

So like I said - reasons.

[JeffS17]

35 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

Dallas tanked to keep their #10 pick the last few games of the season.

So KAT's injuries matter in this equation?  - what about the Hawks? Losing JJ early then late. Trae, OO, Bey missing significant games after the Allstar Break. Then we get to the play-in: No OO, JJ or Bey...and the biggest tell was the Hawks not having Vit join the big club.

So like I said - reasons.

Dallas lost 18 of their last 25... Luka did not play 16 games.  Kyrie did not play 62 games.  The Hawks had some injuries, yes, but nothing that comes close to the magnitude of a full season of first team all-NBA caliber players.  We don't even have that level of talent on the team.  So again, context matters here.  Could we be a top 4 seed, yes, absolutely.  But our situation isn't the same as those teams...

And back to the point of the discussion, I don't personally believe KAT would be the difference maker for us, as we badly need defense and that's not what he brings.  He's not a smart player overall and he's over 30 with a bad injury history with high chance of re-injury and missing more games.  I think we take Trae for granted because he's been such an iron man star for us but having to constantly check the injury report every game for your star player is exhausting, and that is exactly what we'll be doing if we trade for KAT.

 

[macdaddy]

2 minutes ago, JeffS17 said:

Dallas lost 18 of their last 25... Luka did not play 16 games.  Kyrie did not play 62 games.  The Hawks had some injuries, yes, but nothing that comes close to the magnitude of a full season of first team all-NBA caliber players.  We don't even have that level of talent on the team.  So again, context matters here.  Could we be a top 4 seed, yes, absolutely.  But our situation isn't the same as those teams...

And back to the point of the discussion, I don't personally believe KAT would be the difference maker for us, as we badly need defense and that's not what he brings.  He's not a smart player overall and he's over 30 with a bad injury history with high chance of re-injury and missing more games.  I think we take Trae for granted because he's been such an iron man star for us but having to constantly check the injury report every game for your star player is exhausting, and that is exactly what we'll be doing if we trade for KAT.

 

Townes is 28

 

[AHF]

10 minutes ago, macdaddy said:

Townes is 28

 

I'm pretty sure he'll still be 28 when the 2024-25 season tips off.

[Gray Mule]

What does KAT

[JeffS17]

1 minute ago, AHF said:

I'm pretty sure he'll still be 28 when the 2024-25 season tips off.

Yeah, thanks, I was looking at when we'd be paying him $60M.  Either way, he moves like he's 38

[kg01]

1 hour ago, AHF said:

Dallas strategically tanked to keep their pick.  They also stopped competing legitimately after they acquired Kyrie.  The last two games were just the overtly obvious kind of tanking you rarely see.  You really have to rub it in the league’s face to get fined.  

Wait, wait, wait .. this is revisionist history.  They were trying.  They just weren't good.  It’s a convenient thing to suggest they were tanking for longer than those last few games.

I'm not mad that you fell for the banana in the tailpipe, AH.  Again, I'm not mad ... I'm just disappointed.

(My arms are crossed and I'm just shaking my head slowly ... can you sense it?)

[kg01]

2 minutes ago, JeffS17 said:

Yeah, thanks, I was looking at when we'd be paying him $60M.  Either way, he moves like he's 38

Honestly, that's what I'm afraid of too.  This is me finding common ground with a foe.  Sun Tzu would be proud. 

Shld we look at it as a quick get in/get out scheme?  Get a year plus then move him?  Hey, worse contracts have been moved in the past. 

[Gray Mule]

What does KAT have to offer to Atlanta that Sarr doesn't?  I'll say experience, knowing Sarr is 21 and has only played professionally since age 14, old age and the expectations of missing a lot of games due to injury.  

Oh, yes!  There will be a slight difference in the payroll hit with those posters who are aware of such things.

[givemesome1ce1]

16 hours ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

 

That's cool.

Talking about KAT is a long shot at best.  I've said on here during the season that Minnesota would run it back, even if barely put them in the 2nd tax apron.  I'm just hoping KAT's play in this series would cause them to think twice about it.

 

But that still leaves us with what the Hawks should do. We are at a legit crossroads as a franchise.

Trae wants to win. The only way that happens is if we bring other high level players in here, while hoping our kids ( and the 1 - 2 vets we bring in ) all mesh together.  IF we do nothing, Trae goes somewhere else, unless ATL max's him out.

 

I will say that getting complimentary pieces that can defend, would be easier to find than obtaining another high level offensive player to pair with Trae. 

Frontcourt players I would target, if they're on the market:

• Paul George
• KAT
• Jimmy Butler
• Julius Randle
• Brandon Ingram
• Mikal Bridges

Every single one of these players have flaws that people can nit pick at.  At some point though, the nit picking has to stop and the Hawks need to go out and get somebody significant.

I am fine with this comment but here’s the thing. In the Dallas series, the clear best defensive big man they had is Rudy Gobert. Naz Reid and KAT have been terrible. I am just not confident at all we can build a good defense with KAT. It’s easier to do it Brandon Ingram who’s shown he can be a good defender. Ingram is a B+ fit and that’s fine with me.

[Hawkish]

4 minutes ago, kg01 said:

Honestly, that's what I'm afraid of too.  This is me finding common ground with a foe.  Sun Tzu would be proud. 

Shld we look at it as a quick get in/get out scheme?  Get a year plus then move him?  Hey, worse contracts have been moved in the past. 

Unreleased Sun Tzu — “In and out schemes seldomly bring honor to soldier or victory to battalion. More mouths to feed equals less mouths fed.”

Edited May 28 by Hawkish

[AHF]

6 minutes ago, kg01 said:

Wait, wait, wait .. this is revisionist history.  They were trying.  They just weren't good.  It’s a convenient thing to suggest they were tanking for longer than those last few games.

I'm not mad that you fell for the banana in the tailpipe, AH.  Again, I'm not mad ... I'm just disappointed.

(My arms are crossed and I'm just shaking my head slowly ... can you sense it?)

I don't think they stopped competing immediately after the trade but I do think they started mailing it in with an intent to keep their pick well before the last 2 games.  Luka missed 18 games last year and 10 of them were post-Kyrie trade which I don't think is a coincidence.

[Gray Mule]

1 minute ago, givemesome1ce1 said:

I am fine with this comment but here’s the thing. In the Dallas series, the clear best defensive big man they had is Rudy Gobert. Naz Reid and KAT have been terrible. I am just not confident at all we can build a good defense with KAT. It’s easier to do it Brandon Ingram who’s shown he can be a good defender. Ingram is a B+ fit and that’s fine with me.

Defense!  I didn't mention the difference in the defense of KAT and Sarr!  Add this to the difference in age and cost!

[AHF]

4 minutes ago, givemesome1ce1 said:

I am fine with this comment but here’s the thing. In the Dallas series, the clear best defensive big man they had is Rudy Gobert. Naz Reid and KAT have been terrible. I am just not confident at all we can build a good defense with KAT. It’s easier to do it Brandon Ingram who’s shown he can be a good defender. Ingram is a B+ fit and that’s fine with me.

KAT is never going to be an amazing defender but he is much better on both ends of the floor near the rim as a center than he is as a forward.  He is better defensively and better offensively.  He and Rudy fit together better than but somewhat similar to Kevin Love on the Cavs.

[JeffS17]

4 minutes ago, AHF said:

KAT is never going to be an amazing defender but he is much better on both ends of the floor near the rim as a center than he is as a forward.  He is better defensively and better offensively.  He and Rudy fit together better than but somewhat similar to Kevin Love on the Cavs.

Yeah, he's absolutely playing out of position.  That's sort of the issue, though.  He's been terrible in these playoffs, largely playing PF minutes, and Quin wants guys that have multi-faceted games.  He wants guys that can switch defensively (KAT cannot).  He wants guys that can make reads and pass (KAT cannot).  He wants guys that play smart basketball (KAT doesn't).  The only thing that KAT does that Quin wants is he can shoot.  Does KAT have Hawks DNA?  Hell no.

[Hawkish]

2 minutes ago, JeffS17 said:

Yeah, he's absolutely playing out of position.  That's sort of the issue, though.  He's been terrible in these playoffs, largely playing PF minutes, and Quin wants guys that have multi-faceted games.  He wants guys that can switch defensively (KAT cannot).  He wants guys that can make reads and pass (KAT cannot).  He wants guys that play smart basketball (KAT doesn't).  The only thing that KAT does that Quin wants is he can shoot.  Does KAT have Hawks DNA?  Hell no.

It makes sense that we were interested in Siakam. I cannot say the same for KAT.

[macdaddy]

21 minutes ago, kg01 said:

Wait, wait, wait .. this is revisionist history.  They were trying.  They just weren't good.  It’s a convenient thing to suggest they were tanking for longer than those last few games.

I'm not mad that you fell for the banana in the tailpipe, AH.  Again, I'm not mad ... I'm just disappointed.

(My arms are crossed and I'm just shaking my head slowly ... can you sense it?)

Last year it was like Luka was surrounded by basically Trae's supporting cast and he ...checks notes... didn't even make the play in.  

[capstone21]

We are not moving the needle forward with KAT.  He is just destroying our cap and helping us sit around the low 40 win mark.  We will just be spinning our wheels.  It will be a bad move for the organization to go in that direction.

ALso, yes he is 28 but 40 in NBA years.  He has had a lot of beating on those knees.